I'm so curious... What does ceiling height have to do with dishwasher style?

Well, with my ceiling height the upper cabinets would have to be custom and more expensive. So to avoid that the KD suggests using the standard height and then going with a shorter dishwasher.

Perhaps I'm not explaining it right but it is what it is. Either I get an ADA dishwasher or I spend a lot more money on my cabinets. I choose ADA dishwasher.

Still not understanding. What is so unusual about your ceiling height? Exactly how high, or low, is it?

But won't the lower cabinets still be standard height? How does a shorter dishwasher help?

Can you guys please just answer my questions about ADA dishwashers without trying to figure out why I need one?

Are your counters lower than average? Per Google, ADA DW's range from 1-2" shorter than most other DW's.

I don't get what ceiling height has to do with it either. My ceiling is only 92" and, before I tore them out, I had upper cabinets above my regular DW.

Do you have a layout drawing or elevation drawing you could share with us so we can better understand your issue?

For ADA compliance, it's usually suggested you mount the DW 6" higher than normal to bring it up higher - not lower!

I'm with Darbuka - I don't understand.

DWs are mounted under the counter and they fit under standard-height counters. Do you plan to have shorter cabinets and a lower counter than normal? If so, it's going to cost you even more for non-standard base cabinets.

Unless you have incredibly low ceilings, I don't understand why 30" tall upper cabinets won't fit.

36" counter height + 18" backsplash area = 54"

So, if you have 8' (standard) ceilings, you have 42" to work with. Most people get 36" tall cabinets in this case.

If you have 7' ceilings (very low!), you have 30" to work with. In this case, I would probably recommend lowering your backsplash height a couple of inches to fit them with a bit of breathing room (and maybe a bit of molding). [I don't normally recommend reducing backsplash height for a variety of reasons, but this is a "special case".]

If you have ceilings lower than 7' - then you may have more problems than just your upper cabinets! In fact, if that's the case, I would seriously recommend foregoing upper cabinets in favor of more lower cabinets + pantry to give you a more open feel. You could even put in open shelving if needed (another thing I don't usually recommend, but again, "special case"!)

Sorry, but you posted on the Kitchens Forum - this is where we figure out such things. If all you want is appliance help, then I suggest you post on the Appliances Forum.

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So, why are you afraid to get other ideas to solve your issue? People here are great at finding creative ways to solve issues - much better than the average Kitchen Designer, Cabinet Salesperson (which is what most KDs out there really are), architect, builder, etc.

I see my mistake, I should have asked the question about ADA dishwasher on the appliance forum. My bad.

For those of you asking about my kitchen design I actually posted my layout for feedback here.

But yes, my lower cabinets are going to end up a little shorter than standard. This is common in Europe (where ADA size dishwashers are the norm) and I'm ordering Italian cabinets. I wish I could give you the exact reasons why it has to be this way. My KD explained it to me and I didn't feel like I had to fully understand the technical reasons.

I appreciate the help though but let's just trust that the ADA dishwasher is necessary unless I want to increase my budget to customize the cabinets enough to fit the regular size dishwasher. It's not that getting a regular size dishwasher isn't possible, it IS possible. It would just be expensive to do in THIS case. Maybe the elevations I posted will help you guys understand why.

Most ADA capable dishwashers in the US are just the same as dishwashers once were-in the days before tall tank dishwashers.

As to the rest...

yes, the pic above shows what I would consider an ADA dw - or dish drawers. I'd love to have an elevated dw.

do you have pics of one there? your kit where it will be installed? that might help us help you.

I don't know anything about ADA dishwashers being installed higher up. Perhaps that is the confusion. In my case what I need is a shorter dishwasher. It's called a "short tub" or ADA. I understand it's the same size dishwasher used almost everywhere in the world but the USA. It will not be installed higher than usual, it will be installed in the usual manner. Here is an example: http://www.mieleusa.com/Product/Details/1185

Here is a link explaining my situation http://www.warnersstellian.com/dishwasher-buying-guide

Occasionally, the cabinet opening may be less than 34″ in height. This is typically caused by new flooring being laid on top of old flooring, reducing the overall height of the opening. Sometimes counter tops are built slightly lower for handicap accessibility. Dishwashers of the past had a much greater variance in height adjustment compared to models available today. If your opening is less than 34″ in height, you will need to seek out a “short tub” or ADA compliant dishwasher.

My parents' base cabinets are lower than normal, Mom worked closely with her designer for this. It was pre-ADA, so to fit the dishwasher, the floor under it is lower. Nowadays, they would install an ADA-compliant one, or dishwasher drawers.

I think usc's question is valid. ADA-compliant DW doesn't HAVE to be installed higher. That is only true if the INSTALLATION is ADA-compliant. If you are using an ADA-compliant appliance for "typically-abled" purposes, do whatever you want. If it works for your purposes, go for it.

At Abt Appliance, they told me that the capacity is nearly the same, but not quite.

I think the problem here is in the first post when you mentioned the ceiling height being the issue, you did not mention that to deal with the lower ceiling you had to order lower cabinets and you had a question about the shorter style dishwasher.

That detail makes others wonder why you want a dishwasher that is going to have trouble with clearance under your ceiling. Another way to ask would have been: Does anyone have experience with the ADA or short tub dishwashers mounted under counter? Sorry you got so frustrated.

I have never used or seen one. All I can suggest is to compare the specifications online and see if you can find some to look at in person. I'm guessing for example that there is no third rack option in a short dishwasher? I really like my third rack for utensils. But if a short dishwasher is the only way you can get the cabinets you want, that kind of trade off may be worthwhile for you.

I'm very happy with a pair of dishdrawers. Mine are stacked, but you can put them in separately. Have two... have three!

One of the drawbacks to some newer dishwashers is the 'energy compliance' that means you can't get a five minute Quick Rinse and every wash cycle takes hours.

This has been mentioned but have you posted this question in the Appliance forum? You might get more informed responses there. It doesn't sound like many people here have purchased or used one. You may end up going to the various websites where people post reviews and reading them and comparing specs yourself. Sorry if that's no help.

The first time I had to replace a dishwasher, I bought an ASKO, and the installer was able, just barely, to fit it into the shorter than typical opening. A year ago, I needed another, but this time, because of the new floor I'd added in the interim, and because I wanted a white dishwasher, I bit the bullet and ordered new countertops and asked the installers to raise them up with 3/4" plywood, which I then stained to match the existing cabinets. After that, a normal dishwasher slid right in.

The main downside to ADA dishwashers is that a lot of them are just absolute junk. Stick with Bosch, Miele, or Asko and you'll be fine. However, all of the American brand ADA dishwashers come from the same factory in China (I think they're made by Haier). There is a GE-branded one in my break room at work (which has ADA height counters). Trust me, it sucks.

ADA counters are 34" high to allow a person in a wheelchair to reach it comfortably. An ADA dishwasher fits under the shorter counter. I have a Fagor ADA height dishwasher with a paneled front. I did this to allow space for a pullout counter between the dishwasher and my regular height counter. There are two of us, and we need to run it every three days or so. We have had no problems with in four years of use.

Hope this helps.

Lisa

@shelayne THANK YOU!!!

I was leaning towards one of the Miele ADA compliant dishwasher because I think they are the only ones that have a third rack cutlery tray. But I assumed they were still smaller, and was a bit nervous about how much space was left for the other racks if a cutlery rack was crammed into a smaller tub.

However, after reading your post I check out the specs and the Miele ADA dishwasher I was considering actually has a tall tub even though it is ADA compliant. This information about Miele ADA dishwashers makes me feel so much better. I can get my low clearance dishwasher without having to make any compromises. RELIEF!

Yay! Glad that helped you! You will love your Miele. :)

@shelayne Are you *SURE* it is the same dishwasher but with adjustable feet? I went to Pacific Sales today and the guy there was convinced the tub is smaller on the ADA version. However, none of the specs list interior dimensions or capacity so there is no way to verify.

How do you know that the ADA and regular are the same unit with different legs? I'm not so much questioning you as trying to know the source because I can't find any information on this.

A short tub dishwasher is the one that was standard until the tall tubs came about in the last decade. Their outside dimenisions are pretty much the same. Only the inner tub is different due to placement of the motor and mechanicals. They are 24" wide and 33"/34" tall with leg adjustments.

An ADA dishwasher has an outside dimension that is shorter. It is the same width but comes in at around 32"-32.5" inches in height.

An ADA dishwasher will hold fewer dishes then a tall tub but not a whole lot fewer than a standard short tub.

Tub is the inside measurement. A shorter outside height dishwasher is what the OP is asking about here. Just wanted to clear that up.

Correct. BUT it sounds like the Miele ADA dishwasher does not hold fewer dishes than a tall tub. According to shelayne the ADA tub is the exact same as the non-ADA tub. In fact, they both have an official stated capacity of "16 place settings" but I don't know if that means the tubs are the same size. Does it?

Perhaps shelayne would be willing to post interior measurements of the ADA version? And then you could measure the regular version as the store or ask someone on the appliances forum to measure it? I suspect it holds as many place settings but may not fit tall items (stock pot?) as well. But that's a complete guess. Maybe the shorter height really is all in the legs.

I think shelayne is mistaken. Below is photo from the Miele brochure comparing ADA and non ADA dishwashers. You can see in the ADA the middle tray is seriously compromised. You can't even fit a dinner tray on that.

So I wonder if it's better to get an ADA without a cutlery tray to increase the usability of the top tray. Or if I should get an ADA with a cutlery tray and a limited middle rack. I've never had a dw with a cutlery tray so I don't know how useful it is but it sounds like a great feature to have. Not sure if it's great enough to compromise the tray below it though.

So I need to decide if I'm going to get an ADA dw with or without a cutlery tray? Thoughts? Advice? Suggestions? HELP! :-)

Much as I love my utensil rack, I think I would sacrifice it to get more space in the middle rack. My tall water glasses just fit as it is, with the shorter space I don't think they would.

On my Miele dishwasher, you can drop one side of the middle rack. If you have really tall glasses, put them on the side where there are no tall dishes and just drop that side. The sides don't have to be level on the middle rack. I would do more loads before I got rid of the utensil rack. Never have to rewash utensils at all!

Good luck!

If you get the 3D cutlery tray option on the Miele (standard on all models except the Classic I believe), you can actually slide a part of the cutlery tray over itself to make room for taller items in the middle tray. That sound like it would be a decent compromise.

Maybe it is only the same on the Classic. It was the saleswoman at Warners Stellian that told me it was the exact same model, when I was so concerned that it had to be the ADA model, and did they have one in stock? She told me it was the same dishwasher, and it was the ability to lower it to the ADA height that made it ADA compliant. Only a couple of the models are, I understood. I am so sorry, if she gave me incorrect information. :(

My middle rack is adjustable, and it fits stock pots and tall items just fine. I am not home right now, but I can measure when I get home. Keep in mind, though, I have the Futura Classic model, and that may be the difference.

I think everyone is right that this is a case where the particulars of the exact model matter. My three rack dishwasher is a Bosch 800 series and I can adjust the middle rack, but I had drop it down to get my tall water glasses to fit. If the tub as a whole were shorter, I don't think there would be enough room. It sounds like mieles have a variety of configurations that might mitigate a shorter tub, if the ADA model has a shorter tub.

I just looked at which model # I have, and it is G 4286SCVi. , The specs are here ,http://www.mieleusa.com/Product/Details/701 but it looks like it has been discontinued. I purchased it in Feb 2015.