I have been experimenting with rootstocks, although not the same rose. I have a few on Fortuniana and now multiflora (along with the ever present Dr. Huey). I do have some that I had previously on Dr. Huey and now have on MF (Double Delight). So on that one I can see the difference.

I was thinking that we could have a "gardenweb rose trial" where we could compare the performance of a single rose in all of our zones and conditions. This could include rootstock as well. It might be fun!

Would anyone be interested? Maybe for a newer plant. It would be great to compare the difference and follow along with everyone's rose along the season.

What do you think?

I've already done that with Hot Cocoa, JFK and Gemini. Own root, Dr. Huey and Fortuniana with Hot Cocoa. Own root and Dr. Huey were pathetic little bush's that I was ashamed to have in my garden. Fortuniana bush's are big, healthy bush's covered in beautiful foliage from top to bottom and plenty of big beautiful blooms. JFK was the same way. On Dr Huey it was a sick little bush that hardly bloomed. On Fortuniana it is a big, healthy bush covered in big beautiful white blooms. With Gemini, there is no difference between Dr. Huey and Fortuniana. Both bush's are big bush's that just pump out the blooms.

Sarah-Ann,

It's a great idea. BUT. The rose industry isn't what it once was and getting four or five rootstocks is almost impossible, much less the same rose, with minimum mosaic viruses, from good stock is impossible.

To that add the differences in rootstock and soil acidity, cold tolerance, etc.

I hate to be a debbie downer about this, but encouraging people to do this is going to throw a lot of money away.

If I were going to do anything like this, I'd suggest planting the four following roses: R. multilflora, R. canina, R.x fortuniana, and Dr. Huey in your typical soil, treat them the same and after two winters and summers, then decide which thrive in your growing conditions. Then you can think about rooting them and budding onto them.

This is something I've thought about also but from a different angle. Has anyone tried grafting a rose onto something not normally used as a root stock? ie....I'm in z4 & was once thinking of the possibility of using one of the vigorous & very hardy Canadian Explorer series roses such as William Baffin or John Davis as a rootstock.

Back in the day (1800s style) there are reports in agricultural newsletters of ways of growing bigger blooms by grafting (or budding) rose scions into fruit trees.

Wirosarian, I think you have an interesting idea. First, find when the 'bark' lifts easily and growth is happening. No reason this needs to be done on individual plants, doing it to an established William Baffin or John Davis would be where to start. And you could do both budding and cleft grafting. With lots of tags to say what was tried when.

I immediately thought of you, bluegirl! LOL! I'm doing this with Grey Pearl on Pink Clouds and VI Fortuniana. I just budded it to Indian Love Call and VI de la Grifferaie yesterday. I'm also growing Annie Laurie McDowell on VI Fortuniana and Pink Clouds. Something I don't like about Fortuniana is it DEMANDS heat to push... push growth of the mother plant; push roots from the callused cutting; and push growth from the inserted scion. Pink Clouds doesn't demand that heat level, which makes it much easier to bud to and grow plants on. I'm sure there are many others which will work well, just like your Caldwell Pink and Spray Cecile Brunner. I have several seedlings which I will test for standards and bushes this next season.

I'm still very much a novice, but have an abundant supply of Dr. Huey and Multiflora. I will try to root some of those this winter. Now you've given me an idea to use some of a very healthy Don Juan to see if I can also root that. If I do get some good root stock next spring, count me in on the experiment.

John A

Haha!

Yeah, I just want to encourage anyone else who wants to try unconventional stocks to give it a go--sometimes it works, sometimes not *shrug*

IIRC, Ragged Robin in commercial use was an accidental thing, some got mixed up with a batch of Huey, but it works great in my climate/soil. Fine ornamental rose, too.

I tried ILC but didn't get any takes--probably my own incompetence, I'll try again. It's tempting to try anything that grows well for you, roots easily & produces nice thick canes. Thornlessness is especially nice :-D

The VI Fortuniana is giving me fits with getting the pencil-thick canes I want for stocks rooted. Last year was great, this year they've rotted. Heat usually isn't a problem here & it's such a great easy to use thing it's frustrating. I ordered clean stuff from Davis last fall & the material was beautiful & huge. But the shipment came in Oct. & even using a hotbed I could not get it rooted. Oh well.

Last year I tried some Champney's Pink Cluster canes & Lady Banksia. Both root easily & supply lots of (relatively) smooth canes to bud. But neither have done well. Started in the fall & the buds on LBs looked good for months then failed. A friend forwarded me an article that observed some things push too much sap--specifically mentioning Banksias. I'll try again. It's too bad if it doesn't work--I have yards & yards of nice smooth easily rooting canes of it available--if they'd just work!

John, not meaning to be discouraging, but from what I understand, HT canes aren't usually going to be a first choice for long-term budding. They tend to be relatively short lived so you can lose your buds after a few years. Still might be fun to practice with though.

Ragged Robin was the stock of commercial choice until Huey was mistakenly substituted for it by accident. They found it was better suited for production, hence its becoming the standard.

My lavigatas were rooted by me, and the odd thing was really thin twigs didn't take at all, but the pencil sized canes were much easier, and I think that that may be the key for x fortuniana which is "half laevigata" except just looking at it, I'd guess that x fortuniana favors its laevigata more than its banksiae.

aw heck--I thought it was the other way around--that Huey was the first commercial stock & RR got mixed up with it.

Well, even better--RR is great down here & a beautiful thing that repeat blooms.

Huh--seems each year is different for me. last year I rooted a lot of big canes summer-fall. This year the twiggy stuff roots better--go figure.

It's just the way it works.

No need, already done years ago. R. multiflora is preferred in my yard, particularly for HTs. Own root minis/minifloras/OGRs are fine. Own root HTs are terrible. Fortuniana is not reliably winter hardy here, a friend (with more diligence than me) tried a few years ago and was not successful. Dr. Huey only if absolutely needed. Manetti was good for a few years, but declined at about year 5.

Agree with you completely Diane. I do have some forts this year and I have my fingers crossed we don't have another brutal winter this year.

Bluegirl - Don't understand your comment. I assume HT means hybrid tea? Do you consider Don Juan to be a hybrid tea? Hope I'm not showing my ignorance.

John A

Hey John,

We're all ignorant about something we've never done!

yes, HT=Hybrid tea. In general, their canes are shorter lived so you could lose buds on them within a relatively short time. But who knows? It might work just fine for you.

Any rootstock has to:

Root easily--for YOU

bud easily--be mechanically easy to lift the "skin" from a shallow cut & insert a bud

"push" buds, i.e. make the buds grow into canes

and have canes that actually live more than a few seasons.

Don Juan is a climbing HT, but it's kin to New Dawn & IIRC, someone here was trying New Dawn for stock--don't know how it did. You could certainly play with it to get the feel for making cuts & taping in the buds. If they grow well, you can take additional buds from those canes later & put them on other stocks. I hope you try it & report back.

Here is a link to an old article by Dr. Buck about root stocks that might interest some of you:

"Varieties of Rose Understocks" by Griffitth J. Buck

1951 American Rose Annual (2.2 MB pdf)

Found a rose? Perhaps it is a rootstock.

That's a great article--thanks!

I'm always shocked to read of Eglantine being used. It's so thorny! But maybe I should give it a shot. It does great here, roots easily & forms dense mats of roots. I suppose anything that grows on the chalk downs of England likes our caliche just fine, too, though we're about 100% drier. I wasn't prepared for how big the thing can get until I moved to this area--it's climbing up the porch, headed to the roof. Love the scent.

Ragged Robin tends to grow very densely rooted here, too. Little cuttings fill out their bands solidly & almost have to be cut out within a couple of seasons.

Multiflora just loathes the alkalinity here--it turns not just yellow, but white, a real shame.

Bluegirl - Thanks for the explanation.

John A

My pleasure--give it a shot & let's hear what happens :)

You should also avoid any rose which suckers wildly as a stock. At one time, some European nurseries used Rugosa stems to generate standards, but they would eventually sucker all over the yard. You think Huey suckers? LOL!

I would suggest trying root stocks that are rose rosette virus resistant. For some other plants this has worked in increasing the resistance of the whole plant.