Like Linda said there is no way you can really know ahead of time what you would get with growing hybrid saved seeds as it depends on 2 things - the parentage lines (and they can be multiple rather than just 2) and the odds that the seed were cross-pollinated during the first season.

If any possibility of cross-pollination is eliminated and if you know the parent stock then the best one can do is make semi-educated guesses as to what the 2nd generation will be based on the the dominant genes in the parent stock.

So you grow several of them out and see what you get. :-)

Dave

This is my understanding, feel free to correct me if I am wrong -

With OP varieties, the genes are made uniform, so that both copies of each chromosome are more or less the same, so that it doesn't matter which copy of the chromosome is passed on, it will be the same.

With hybrids, the chromosomes are different, as they come from two different varieties, so there is no knowing exactly what you will get the next season, as it depends which chromosome is passed on which is a roll of the dice. There is too much variability in the genetic code.

Think of it like people, there is no way of knowing exactly what your child will look like, due to the variability in your chromosomes. Even if you know a certain gene being expressed is dominate, the child would have to inherit that gene, and unless both your parents passed on that gene to you that is not a certainty. In the case of hybrid plants, since you don't even know what the parent lines are, it really is making some major guesses.

Of course with plants unless there is cross pollination the offspring has a higher likelihood of getting passed on a gene.

I agree with Peter. It follows the laws of heredity, similar to the that in the animals kingdom.

In hybrids, if you plant a statistical sample (number) of F2 seeds there is a good chance that you might get some that are like the F1 plant/fruits. This is to say that there is a probability that an F2 seed might have the same gens that the F1 has/had.

Some Examples :

1) I planted Kumato from store bought tomato. That is F2. What I've got (sitting on the counter right now) is identical (in size, shape, color, taste )to the tomato that I took seeds from.

2) There are members here that have been growing Brandy Boy, all the way to F11. No significant difference has been observed.

So , probably it depends on the parents and how they shared gens. JMO

Sey

In hybrids, if you plant a statistical sample (number) of F2 seeds there is a good chance that you might get some that are like the F1 plant/fruits. This is to say that there is a probability that an F2 seed might have the same gens that the F1 has/had.

Well, rather very simply, it is something like this at F2 from F1 hybrid seeds. That is, for each trait that is essential to generating a phenotype that looks like the F1 phenotype, the chances of this occurring are described as 0.75^T, where "T" = the number of essential traits required (to express dominance) to create a similar phenotype at F2 seed gro-out. As the value of T increases , it becomes less probable that an "essential" F1 phenotype is observed in F2 gro-outs. At T=1, 3/4 of them should have the essential appearance of F1. However, at, say, T=5, this likelihood drops to 243/1024 or about 24% (at T=10, it is < 6.0% and a LOT [ actually, most ] of the "6 percent-ers" will themselves be hybrids). A main difficulty in attempts to "de-hybridize" cultivars with many "essential" traits is that ID-ing a "Washed-out" hybrid trait is really not possible by normal observational methods. And the number of gro-outs (at subsequent generations) needed to accomplish this becomes unmanageable for most gardeners.

Thanks reg. Very concise explanation.

I was close but did not know about the number of traits

Sey

was close but did not know about the number of traits

Well, of course this is critical here. For a simplistic illustration, assume that a hybrid was created on the basis of ONE crossed trait, say, AA and aa as parents, respectively Dominant and recessive for target trait. So ya get hybrid with Aa or aA for target trait... and that is all for that genetic marker. At F2, its seeds produce an equal mix of Aa, AA, aa and aA. Now 75% of them will have the appearance of the hybrid for that trait and 50% are hybrids (Aa and aA). Double the hybrid traits by adding another trait, say, BB and bb to the above mix. So Bb, BB, bb and bB are included genetic markers in F1's seeds. So at F2 you have a mix of 9 double or single dominant alleles BUT also a mix of 7 that include either (or both) aa or bb (0.5625 hybrid essential traits and 0.4375 including non-desired trait or traits... 0.75^2 and 1-0.75^2, respectfully). And these seven types (yes, a greater percentage can be culled here from totals compared to T=1, but ya still are left with a lot more plants to trial compared to those at F2 where T=1) can be de-selected for purposes of "de-hybridization", but one is still left with a pile to sort out at F3, requiring at least 8 grow-outs of of each of the selected phenotypes. With an increasing number of crossed traits involved in hybrid creation, it becomes exponentially more "complicated", if you will, to effect "de-hybridization". Simply a matter that the potential numbers involved can become rather unmanageable. Not impossible, but highly problematic and requiring many, many generations. Methuselah could perhaps have accomplished this in his/her lifetime... parenthetically, I have never encountered such an entity.

Thanks for the detailed explaination.. I learned a lot!

"... parenthetically, I have never encountered such an entity."

Lol... reginald, take a look at what cannabis growers have accomplished by bringing the plant indoors and quadrupling the number of growing seasons in a year. Regardless of how one views the politics, the breeding has been simply amazing.

Was hoping we'd hear back from the original poster by now to know if any of this is answering the original question of not.

Dave

Original poster here. I have been fascinated with the answers and "liked" many of them. Yes I'm thoroughly satisfied with the answers and have moved onto to other thoughts and burning questions. Thanks to all of you.