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avid448

Kitchen Cabinets Stain Excuse "Always Variety in Wood."

10 years ago

Our cabinet guy installed walnut cabinets. There is no stain, just varnish. Some of them are red, some brown, as you can see in the photo. He thinks this is acceptable, as "there's always variety in wood" and prior to varnishing, he says you can't tell with unstained walnut how it's going to come out. I say, someone who knows what they're doing should be able to tell, he also could have put a little damp on to test, if he wasn't sure, but that this is unacceptable. He doesn't want to replace all the red ones (the sample he gave me before we hired him was a dark brown, and this is what we based the hardwood floor, etc on). Am I right?

Comments (12)

  • 10 years ago
    Hi. Photos would help. I didn't know walnut could be reddish.
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

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    I've been trying to upload a photo, here it is. The cabinet on the right vs the one under the sink. (That he screwed up the farm sink is a whole 'nother issue.)

  • 10 years ago

    do a google image search of 'walnut cabinets' and decide if the variation you see is similar to yours.

  • 10 years ago

    Our contract said he was going to "match grain." I've had custom cabinets many times before and never had this type of variation. I assumed all cabinet makers examine what they have gotten so that it is uniform, prior to fabricating. That's what every other custom cabinet maker I've ever had has done. I did google walnut cabinets as was suggested, and I don't see this type of variation.

  • 10 years ago

    You got what you asked for. You have bookmatched grain in natural walnut with all of the natural variation that wood can produce. If you wanted a uniform color, then you should have asked for a stain, or have paid the premium for ultra select veneers.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Avid, I do sympathize and I am sorry you are unhappy. You
    are right that the color is not artfully matched but the cabinetmaker is also
    right walnut does have a ton of color variation, within in the board and from tree to tree. Getting walnut to look all the same color is a trick, either they cut only certain parts of the wood "ultra select" the veneer or add color with toner, dye or stain.

    It would have saved everyone a lot of frustration in this case if the cabinetmaker had explained that you might get variation and confirmed you were okay with that. My experience is that not all cabinet makers are salesmen/educators and they often assume the client knows terminology that is in fact unfamiliar jargon. Maybe he assumed you knew precisely because of your past experience. Do you always get your custom cabinets in walnut with a clear finish?

    As Sophie stated: Grain is not about color. You do have book matched grain on your cabinets. See this post about grain matching: http://www.lifeofanarchitect.com/residential-architecture-101-wood-veneer/ Also, [This a good example of nice walnut cabinetry: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/shopping-for-new-kitchen-cabinets-dsvw-vd~572469 [(https://www.houzz.com/products/charing-drive-hamilton-prvw-vr~4110737)There is sapwood (lightest), golden and dark colors. Last link: Dye Finishing Walnut

  • 10 years ago

    avid, i'm so sorry you are disappointed as your cabinets, to me, are beautiful. i feel sorry for your cabinetmaker to have produced these and then have the client be disappointed!

    i dont know what to advise you, other than to have you think about it for a while. sometimes when something is different than what i had originally wanted, it helps to know that its still 'correct' even tho different.

  • 10 years ago
    The cabinets will also change color with exposure to light. They are gorgeous. Nature is rarely perfect.
  • 10 years ago
    Would like to see more photos of your kitchen. Walnut is like hickory, a lot of variation that is what makes it beautiful. Even natural cherry has some variation
  • 10 years ago

    I think mmccx_a has a valid point that the cabinet maker may have assumed you understood what you were ordering when you really didn't. If that's the case, he can hardly be blamed for producing the ordered product.

    Spend some time looking at pictures of walnut cabinets online. I think you'll find that yours are just fine.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Thanks all. I appreciate the comments. I've never had walnut cabinets before. All the other woods I've had have been pretty uniform. This cabinet maker did not explain that there would be any variation, let alone this much. When we visited his shop prior to hiring him, he took an untreated piece of walnut, sprayed varnish on it, handed it to me, and told me this is what the cabinets would look like. I had no reason to expect some would be much lighter and some even red. He also did not explain as a commenter stated above, that if I wanted uniformity, I should pay more and have a light stain. I wish he had. I sent pictures of my cabinets to 3 different cabinet makers I've worked with in the past and have been very happy with (in other states, or I would have worked with any of them this time) and they were appalled at the variation in color. I'm also upset as the cabinet maker did not follow the plans for 4 different cabinets in the kitchen - they were the wrong size, and I've already had him tear out 3. His excuses were: "The appliance manufacturer never providers good specs" (this is sub-zero wolf, mind you, and prior to his ripping it out and starting over I heard the contractor say to him, "But, the whole point of a sub zero is it's flush with the other cabinets"), "99% of our clients want it the way I did it" (which should obviously not have been the way I wanted it, as the plan I approved was not what he gave me - the plans had all the cabinets flush, with the countertops proud of them. Instead, he recessed the cabinets under the sink 2.5 inches from the appliance cabinets), and for the farm sink fiasco, "In 25 years, I've never done a farm sink with the bottom cabinet doors in line with the sink" (again, even though this was the way I approved it on the plans - see the picture for how he did it. The contractor even told him, "I have a farm sink with the doors in line. That's the way it's usually done.") Finally, he didn't leave enough room in a cabinet for the cooktop downdraft and his reason, "I didn't know it was that big" - uh, he had the specs (he's fixing it now. With all these mistakes, I've been living in the house for 2 weeks and still don't have a functioning kitchen. So, I don't know. I'm still very inclined to think this is yet again, his fault. I have looked at walnut cabinets online and just don't see anything near the variation I got. I have doors that are very red, and doors that are just light brown, instead of the dark I was told I was getting. Based on all of your comments, I think I will compromise, and just have him replace the 3 red doors and not the rest. I'm just really tired of dealing with him. In a few months, hopefully I'll just look at those lighter cabinets, shake my head and laugh at the memory of Moe, Curley and Larry do a kitchen, and be thankful that this is the last remodel I will ever do (as I love the rest of my house).

    Since someone asked, here's a better photo:

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