Thank you, what a silly omission! I'll put the dimensions of what we currently have, but I am interested in changing things that don't work. I was really hoping for fresh eyes on just the space itself.

What bothers a lot is the entry: the door situation -- front, garage, closet -- the open entry that doesn't feel like an entry (and seems to defy the online advice I read for decorating a small entry), the built-in display cabinet that seems so silly (but is holding many of DH's sentimental items that do not have another home), and the wall next to the display cabinet.

Sofa: 88" wide x 38" deep (too big)

Ottoman: 32" x 24" (could get rid of this)

recliner (small scale, will need to be purchased)

large tv (I believe DH wants 52" or bigger) plus some type of serious media storage (large receiver, computer, small center speaker and side speakers, playstation, wii...all that stuff that DH loves)

coffee table: 43.5" length x 17.5" wide x 19" high -- I guess it could go but the kids use it a lot and I use it not only as coffee table but also for folding laundry or ironing. My DH hates it because it was, essentially, a trash-to-treasure item that needs to be sanded and refinished or painted, and I haven't done anything with it because I have decision-paralysis so we use it as-is.

shelf/bookcase: 83" tall x 31.5" wide x 12" deep

piano: 57" wide x 25" deep: the piano...it's complicated. My dad took the other one we had but asked if we could store this one "temporarily". So I had a short piano-free reprieve, which was nice, but basically back to square one again with a different piano.

Ok that changes the water on the beans :) Thanks for the list!

Same questions as Robo plus seeing photos of the room would really help too. Also, what is the total width of the fireplace wall? You are missing measurements there or I'd have added them up.

Lived with a piano for 30 years! Does anyone in your house currently play? And do you have a dining room or separate family room? We kept our piano for a while in the dining room. When we had a grand, it was in the entrance way area, free standing, but won't work too well if it is an upright, although those don't necessarily have to go against a wall. Inside walls are best, but that isn't an issue with your layout it seems.

That wall is about 12' long, each square on the grid is supposed to be 6"

Photos of the room...I think I might have them in an old thread I'll try to find it :-)

Piano -- no we don't play it. Initially I thought I'd give my kids lessons even though I do not play well myself, but they aren't interested. I play well enough to teach them from basic books. It's not anything that is a priority. Mainly I'm storing it for my dad.

No separate dining room or family room.

Well this is an older picture of the entry if you were standing in the space to the dining/kitchen. The clock has been replaced by a larger clock (the kids knocked the small one of the wall and it shattered into a bunch of pieces)

Looking at my old threads -- I can see I've been asking for help with this stupid space layout since 2010, maybe even before that. Basically since I quit my full-time job to stay home with kids. Ugh, I hate the layout; now that I'm here so much of the time it really grates on my nerves. Moving is seriously the only solution :-) It's not to solve the layout issue, it would be to be within walking distance of my boys' school. But it WOULD solve the layout problem, wouldn't it!

does the piano get used at all? could it fit in the dining room? just working on my ideas

Ok it looks tight, but I live with a 12x12 living room with a triangular fireplace cutting off 1/3 of it so I feel your pain.

1. Bookcase - just put little used stuff below the level of the sofa arm and the bookcase will act as an end table for your sofa.

2. Obviously the closest person on the couch will have a hard time watching TV ... so I put an ottoman for one of the boys to sit on.

3. I put the sofa back-to-entry for two reasons: 1. To delineate entry space. 2. So you can put a storage console along the back of the sofa for an entryway table.

4. If you don't like the wall perpendicular to the display cab, put a little accent chair, ottoman or bench there with a nice piece of art on top. Basically try to extend the 'feeling' of the entryway beyond that tight front door area.

5. How often do you use your fireplace? Does it get too hot for your husband to sit close to it?

Hey that's an interesting layout! We rarely rarely have a fire, CA hardly allows any burn days. I mainly light scented candles in there.

I love the idea of delineating the space with the sofa. It really bugs me how open it is, no sense of entry or privacy or anything.

You could also switch the piano and bookcase, snug the couch pretty close up to the piano, and that would let the TV get a little farther from the end of the couch, enough that a person sitting on that side could probably watch TV.

OR - you could get rid of the bookcase, use the console as the storage you would have needed from the bookcase, and put the TV table in the corner on an angle. This is about what we have and might be ideal for you.

How tall is the piano? Could it be your "console" or would it stick up over the couch? Ours is too tall to back onto a couch.

Also, if you don't use the fireplace you could put a little slipper chair where I have the ottoman

Sofa table example (IKEA Hemnes $220 solid pine)

This will seem counterintuitive to a lot of people but since you are replacing the floor as well I would consider creating a physical separation at the main entry so you have an actual entryway.

If the entryway is on the dark side anyway, I don't think this will make it any darker. You could put a more durable floor in the entry, either restricting it to the smaller entryway proper or running it across to the wall opposite. (Dark green and light green.)

If you could I would change the garage doorswing to rest against the new wall rather than opening against the room.

Robo -- inspired by your suggestion, I did a minor rearrangement in the space. I tried our sofa across the main entry but it pretty much closes off the room. It's too wide, a shorter sofa would work better. So I utilized the chair instead. I had to angle it, though, as that is DH's tv-viewing chair so it has to face the tv.

The slipper chairs are so cute, I really like those!

This is what I've currently accomplished, a partial division via that big chair. I like it better than what was there before, it feels a bit more private and everything isn't just lined up against the wall. Of course, after these changes the boys both were on the piano last night AND this morning, and they both asked me to do a lesson after school today. :-/ Moving the furniture around made the whole space more exciting to them for some reason. Also I have better access for opening and closing the corner windows now, so that's pretty nice.

You asked about the piano height -- it's too tall to be a sofa console unfortunately. The old black piano was shorter, but also too tall.

Pal -- I've thought about somehow putting a divider in the entry before, but we don't want to spend any more dollars on unnecessary construction since we are planning to move. DH could build a wall divider relatively inexpensively, and we've talked about it in past years but he didn't agree that we should divide the space like that so I know he won't want to do it, especially since he knows I want to move he thinks it's dumb to do any more changes. The flooring does need to be addressed, it's not good and I think if we try to sell it will be a major deterrent. So right now I'm looking for "decor-only" solutions.

With that in mind, what if I moved the tall bookshelf out of the living room and used it as a divider in the entry? Here are the issues with that shelf:

- may not be very stable as a stand-alone piece (right now it's secured to the wall)

- the back is not finished

- it's actually pretty unattractive, it's a "white stain" Hemnes shelf fom Ikea that I painted white; the paint didn't adhere well at all. I painted it because it looked greyish-pink next to the fireplace and we thought it would be a great idea to make it match...it was not a great idea.

I like the idea of defining the entry via flooring, but since the construction of a wall is pretty unlikely then would change in flooring still be a good idea? An alternative is maybe I could purchase a rug. The problem is that it will need to live beyond the door swing, otherwise is will impede the door.

I may just be stuck on this console table idea. What if you put a console table exactly where palimpsest said to build the wall and maybe where you were thinking of the hemnes bookshelf. My parents had a half height wall to delineate their entryway and it worked quite well.

I like your new layout! Seems very functional for your family and hey, you can get at the piano :)

I start checking out console tables on CL, it sounds like something that could work!

Here are some ideas. I'm wondering if your dh would consider either a reclining sofa or a couch with an attached ottoman. With your space constraints, either of these would help with the proportions of the space that you have to work with. These come up on our CL all the time, so you might be able to check the listings out in your area.

I understand that family relationships and furniture can be delicate. Perhaps you can approach your dad on wanting the space in your home freed up for other things. (Dad, what would you like to do about the piano? I'm afraid we'll have to put it out in the garage or something as soon as we find new furniture... ; )) Based on my personal experiences with storing things for relatives, it's easy for them to "forget" about the items until it suddenly becomes "urgent" to move them along. My dad had the whole loft of our garage filled with things from when he sold his home until we had an offer on the sale of our house a couple years later. He amazingly found new places for all those things (and I had to be firm on the fact that we didn't want them.) He got them all out and dealt with them. And we still love each other. : ) YMMV.

If that's not a possibility, then maybe the t.v. could be mounted on the wall above the piano with a tilt mount, and the piano and t.v. could go in the location where I put the t.v. console in the drawing below. All of the t.v. related gear could go either in a coffee table with storage or a storage ottoman.

A low shelving unit or two could be put in the 13' doorway that could hold bins for the kids items. Even if the unit was 6' wide, you'd still have a 7' walkway, depending on how it is from the kitchen side. : ) Or, two 3' units on either edge of that same doorway, with the 7' wide opening in the middle, as in the second sketch.

If the books in the tall bookshelf aren't used that often, I'd consider tucking the bookshelf in the corner by the garage door. Now if you got a reclining sofa or one with an ottoman, it will be even easier to get to the tall shelves.

Those layouts are interesting, I hadn't considered completely re-orienting the room. Part of me dislikes having the tv being right in the line of sight from the front door...I'm not sure why that bothers me. I do like how you've placed a table/lamp into the corner next to the sofa, that makes a lot of sense and the lamp is protected from crazy kids ;-) I bet that was an intended layout for the room, now that I'm thinking about it, because at least one of the outlets on that wall is controlled by a lightswitch.

I have never considered a reclining sofa, but I can see how that would solve the recliner issue.

As for my "to-scale" layout, I totally messed up!! The opening to the kitchen/dining is not 13', it's about 6 1/2 feet. It would be really cool to put shelves there

My basic notions about seeing the TV from the entry are pretty much like yours, and there is the issue of where to put the piano. How nice, and interesting, that just the changes so far have energized your family. Maybe you should have two good arrangements for the occasional changeout.

BUT, it does seem there's really a great deal to gain with the sort of layout Laughablemoments posted. Outlet location aside, it's as if the room is saying, yes, this is right. :)

On top of everything else, including feeling larger and airier and relating well to the rest of your busy living areas, it would now appropriately feature those nice corner windows and the view out. (Whether that's already nice or another project, it has to be a great asset for this room.)

Sofas with recliner units that nevertheless manage to look fairly trim and elegant are not common, of course, but they are out there.

As for the entry corner, the one thing I'm sure of is that I would paint all the utility doors, frames and hinges the wall color. Let the front door be the door.

You've never liked the built-in, and obviously that's not going to change. How about getting rid of it and getting a display cabinet you do like instead? Perhaps set it on the adjacent wall, or?

That coffee table obviously more than earns its inclusion, and it's "problem" is fixable. The piano stays, somewhere.

But maybe take a good look at other odd pieces and apply that "Have nothing in your house that you do not know to be useful or believe to be beautiful" rule? That little upholstered bench that uses valuable wall space, for instance. Beautiful? Useful? If so, as useful as something else that could be put in its place?

If you want to create a divider, could you use the bookcase, like this?

http://www.engineeryourspace.com/episodes/how-to-make-a-bookcase-wall-divider/

I had forgotten about this thread! As an update, the piano is gone, but DH brought in two vintage speakers he's had for over 16 years that he's stored at a friend's house the last 10 or so (great sound but large). He also moved the big chair into the middle bedroom...it takes up 1/3 of the floor space in there but at least it's out of the living room. However, now our exercise bike is also in the LR.

We've decided not to replace the sofa until our boys are older and more respectful of furniture, a practical choice more than anything else. We recently had the driveway expanded and re-done; it's really nice and adds curb appeal, but it means not spending much $ on interior decorative stuff.

The BIlly Bookcase entry divider is pretty cool!, thanks for the video link! But adding an entry divider is yet another thing we don't agree on -- DH loves the openness of not having any type of divider and our boys often use that area as a space to play. I did find a roadside mirror that's large and heavy, needs some refurbishing and some hooks, and I hope to hang it on the wall across from the front/garage entry doors above the bench, so that's the most likely major change we'll do there. We use the bench for putting on/taking off shoes.

Ultimately, I guess I've given up on trying to make the room appear spacious or bright-and-airy. It's small with minimal natural light and we have too much stuff in there. When DH brought in his speakers HE rearranged that tv wall and I've decided to just accept his design and work around it. I'm planning to repaint this year, finally address the flooring, and add a picture gallery -- I have quite a few photos and wall art stashed in closets or behind stuff that I'd like to finally hang and enjoy! Beyond that, the next big thing will be to move. We've been looking, but aren't ready to take that leap (nor have we found what we're looking for).

When I started reading this, I didn't realize it was an old thread. But it sounds like it isn't out of date yet...

I was going to suggest an Ikea Expedit shelving unit (or Kallax, I guess, is what they replaced the Expedit with--they look nearly identical) to use as the suggested divider. I have a white one I would be happy to give away (I'm in Oakland, and it's in great condition, it's just never been right for the space). For safety you'd need to attach it to the wall and probably to the floor as well.

Funny reading your post. We're empty nesters, but I remember those wonderful years when just plain family living ruled.

Our DIL's gone the other way. After raising one husband and child, she'd regained a nice degree of elegance in her life only to remarry and start parenting all over again at a late age. Now her new living room's ruled by impervious furniture, including a giant, bloated sectional with 3 recliner units. But a whole lot of living takes place on it, videogames (including nth try at teaching grandma how not to get killed), researching investments, TV, chatting with friend (always someone over), reading, kitten harassing old dog, all at once.

Enjoy.