@msmeow
500K is a pretty much a starter home in much of California (in the Bay
Area, it's actually higher). It takes a combined income of roughly
$135K with some ongoing debt (like car payments). That's definitely in
reach of two college grads, after 2 to 3 years of experience, especially
if one of them is in a field like engineering or has an advanced
degree. What usually slows people up is the down payment and any
college debt. Newly minted Top 20 MBAs and software engineers with a bit of experience can easily earn that amount, in their 20s. Sadly this is not enough to buy a home in SF, for example (except for the previously posted shack).

On the main topic, I do think that many of today's younger buyers are influenced to want some instant gratification and have high expectations -- that could be due to TV or sites like Houzz. That is a gross generalization, of course -- there will always be an exceptions.

When I view real estate today, I just hope no flipper has taken and done the kitchen. They usually do a bad job, with corners cut like limited drawers, awkward layouts and checklist items they think buyers want

What gets me is when they are in an area where you can buy a 3000 sqft mansion with for around 200K and they whine that the place, which is about 5 years old, looks "dated."

Should come to my area where you can get a small studio for that amount that really is "dated" as in not-cute 60s.

I agree about the five year old "dated" comments, but I think the 60s decor has a strong appeal for a niche of buyers. What I'm finding universally reviled is the late 70s to early 80s stuff. Nobody is looking at a sea of black shiny melamine, pastel abstract wallpaper and Nagel prints and saying -- "Let's make an offer right now". But if we wait 10-15 years, perhaps that will come into "retro" fashion. It is already in clothing and music.

"Open concept." I'm so over that phrase... When couples looking at older vintage homes want to keep the charm and character, but want "open concept."

Oh, yeah, that phrase is nails on a chalkboard. My landscaper used it recently to mean "no fence". I think I visibly cringed.

Given all the above comments-agree with them--my question is for those selling homes, do these HGTV DREAMERS ever actually buy a home they can afford (assuming that is one w/o all their updates) or do they continue to just SEARCH? I am thinking back to the old show "First Time Home Buyer". That agent showed couples what they thought they HAD TO HAVE..then gave them the price tag..they always ended up willing to make compromises with their "must haves" when they realized they couldn't pay for them. Are we thinking HGTV has actually decreased home 'values' with all their inflated expectations? Bottom line a home is only worth what it will sell for and if a perfectly lovely, well built home is branded "dated" does it actually lose value?

Ah HGTV, my not so secret vice. I use it as my wind down after stressed work days; it's relaxing to watch those yo-yos parading through houses with the same endless series of comments. One I notice lately is that nobody wants a 'cookie-cutter' house, it has to have 'character'. And inevitably one half of the couple wants to live in 'city center'--and when did that become a real phrase?! Also love the iron clad necessity of having space to entertain, especially for those House Hunters International versions, because who the hell will you be entertaining once you move from Indiana to Thailand? Not to mention what must be in the contract: the husband and wife peering into the huge MBR closet so husband can say "Well honey, this will be enough for your shoes but where will my stuff go?" And of course the fact that inevitably if the budget is X, the realtor will show them at least one house that costs X+ so that as we hear in the earnest cutover shot " they can see what it costs to get everything they want".

As for the remodeling shows there are 2 things that bug me. One is the also must-be-in-every-episode sequence in which the new owners stand somewhere, usually the kitchen, wearing ridiculous eye protection while the petite wife wields a heavy sledge hammer ineffectually to smack at the walls--she also has to either giggle, squeal or both every time she attempts to whack a wall. Which is followed by the homeowners and the expert flailing away destroying cabinets, counters and walls.

My second gripe is the also-inevitable process by which the homeowner insists that a wall has to be taken down, at which point the contractor, the expert and the homeowner huddle worriedly while contractor explains that they need to get a structural engineer in to solve the deep mystery. FOLKS! That kind of major structural issue can be easily figured out by having somebody poke their head into the attic to check *before* the sale is closed. Ah well, it's only entertainment not reality tv after all :).

I just came back from a trip and OD'ed on HGTV in the hotel room. The shows are drearily predictable, the hosts are manic, the buyers idiotic, their expectations unrealistic, their budgets either mind blowingly large or laughably small, their very existence is fraught with manufactured problems.....and yet I still watched.

St. Paul, my least favorite biblical character, knew a lot about human nature. From his letter to the Romans, 7:15: For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

Those Romans were probably doing something worse than watching vapid television, but it still resonates!

As I said above, the good news is that some superficial improvement and staging make a tremendous difference.

Who cares if there are old drafty aluminum windows as long as there are pretty dark curtain rods and linen drapes.

A dysfunctional kitchen with a barrier island as long as the walls are painted gray, white cabinets with marble counters, SS appliances, and cool light fixtures is "much nicer" than old maple or, gasp, oak cabinets. Nobody cooks in there anyways.

I have a neighborhood development nearby where houses have an almost identical layout. An updated house (even with the old windows, roof, HVAC) commands up to 200K more than the original late 70s, early 80s.

But think about it, if you were buying a house wouldn't you want it;

1. Updated to what you want? Or

2. Not updated but priced lower so that you can update it?

LOL @ kswl2! Love the application of scripture there! It's TRUE!

Also love the iron clad necessity of having space to entertain, especially for those House Hunters International versions, because who the hell will you be entertaining once you move from Indiana to Thailand?

Hahahaha! You are so right, running! DH and I often joke about how often "entertaining" is mentioned. Entertaining??? I can't imagine anything I'd rather do with regularity LESS than "entertain."

I would like a house that has the basics updated, such as windows, doors, roof, AC, furnace, water heater. I couldn't care less about wall paint or what color carpet.

Also, updated to what I want may be very different from (a) somebody else's taste and (b) some superficial updating or mere staging.

Gotta say that wherever abroad I lived, it's much more likely to have friends casually drop by for a visit.

(Not to mention, the overseas visitors who come and stay for extended time.)

Great thread and comments. When I was selling my house I remember one lady who could not get over the fact that my colonial house did not have an open floor plan or "wider" stairs. I was like "Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot?"

I love all of your comments, many of which made me chuckle. I think most of us deplore the shows that HGTV broadcasts these days when compared to some of the wonderfully educational shows the channel used to host. The only show I still watch is House Hunters International and even then I skip all the episodes in tropical locations.

It's interesting, Nosoccermom, that you had more visitors when you lived abroad. Did people expect to be able to stay with you and not in a hotel? That's one comment that always throws me a little...when house hunters ask for two bedroom apartments so that they have a guest room. Most of the places I've lived, the only guest room was the living room sofa.

Fun2B, I think for a lot of people, it would never occur to them to visit country X unless they were going to visit family. And if you're going to visit family, why would you stay in a hotel? But yeah, it's so much cheaper to pay for a hotel for 3 nights 6 times a year vs an increase in rent for the extra bedroom 365 days a year.

I was a poor student :)

But seriously, when you have six weeks of vacations, a few days staying at friends' house isn't so uncommon.

I actually sympathize with the concerns about guests and entertaining. I do both, a LOT. My last house was marginally comfortable for guests, but kinda tricky for entertaining because there was a hallway between the living room/dining room and the kitchen. The stairwell was on one side of the hallway so it could not be changed in any way. When I lived alone and had guests in the living room or dining room, I always had to disappear and leave everyone hanging while I went into the kitchen to fetch anything. And the kitchen was sooooooo small. Last time my best friend visited me, (to help me pack for my move) we were bumping into each other in the kitchen and she said, "Lpink, next time you get a house, promise me you will not settle until you find one with a big kitchen and open to the rest of the house, this kitchen is so not you!" Frankly, I was just lucky to have a roof over my head, and when I was by myself I didn't notice the awkwardness. But I definitely want to graduate to a "two butt" kitchen this next time.

Who remembers Suzanne Whang? The show would start off with a doorbell (ding dong) and she would say "I'm Suzanne Whang." I was at someone's house when the doorbell rang and I blurted out "I'm Suzanne Whang." Got a few strange looks for that one.

LOL, dedtired! That sounds like something I would do! Today I had a near-overwhelming urge to type "are you wearing khakis?" to the guy named Jayson that I was discussing an issue with on Amazon.com's chat feature. I know Jayson is not the same as Jake ... from State Farm ... but I still wanted to type that and see what he said. I refrained.

"She sounds horrible." Ha ha.

Auntjen, I'm sure there will be someone who comes along who appreciates your former home's charm.

On House Hunters International , it is common that the couple has already bought their house and they are only pretending to look at other houses. I was watching one episode where the couple walked into the nursery of a house that they were looking at and the husband said with a smile, "Oh, they have a baby just like we do". They were pretending to look at a house that they already owned. I suspected as much after his comment. I had recorded it so I re-watched it and if you looked closely everything was the same as when they showed them living in it at the end of the show.

Yes, they have usually already bought. Not only that, but the other houses they're looking at can sometimes be a friend's house. Apparently there's been some awkwardness (or outright feuds) caused when someone has to say something negative about a place, because they're clearly not buying it. The friend who loaned their place gets mighty offended with the intensity of the critical comments.

You can usually predict the house they bought because it's the one that's empty.

My addition to the ridiculous-ness of HGTV - people who find the perfect home for the perfect price but, OH-OH, it just isn't right for the DOG!

HGTV has ruined it for anyone trying to sell~I found that out 7 years ago when I put my San Diego home(condo)on the market. It did sell in 3 months, no stainless, but I installed Granite Transformations, as expensive as granite. Also completely repainted entire space, including cabinets, new blinds, new carpeting, painted garage walls and floor, and a myriad of other 'projects' which IMO, buyers would not have expected 5 years earlier. Thanks HGTV!!

Hang in their Jen! Your little cottage has so much charm and it's just gonna take that ONE right buyer. I had 5 offers, but 4 of the offers were too low to even consider~their realtors must have thought I would be desperate since it was a buyers market. It's a strong market here in Texas, a plus for you. ;)

Mizscarlett, I am one of those crazy people who considers the dog when buying a house. I don't care if he'll like the carpet colour. But I need a yard. I need to be able to open the door and let him out to pee. A pretty kitchen doesn't mean much if I have to get bundled up to walk the dog at 6am in minus 20 and blizzards. Or brand new carpet that's going to get covered in mud. It's being realistic about my lifestyle.

I want to add, I don't know if it's HGTV's fault, but I hate the notion that everyone needs or wants the same thing. People "have" to have granite, or stainless steel, without even knowing what the options are. Or not knowing what it costs.

And nobody wants to personalize their space, put in what they ACTUALLY like, for fear of "resale".

It makes for some really bland homes.

I don't think it's just the fear of "resale" but also the fear of not being in style with the latest trends. Between HGTV and everybody basically quoting Houzz as the bible for what a kitchen, living room, open-concept room should look like, no one seems to want to step out of that teeny-tiny box. No one seems to have a sense of their own taste anymore because in this disposable society we can always rip something out and start again.

True about fake shows ... I remember on the HGTV shows forum, years ago, several people who were actually on them posted details about how scripted and fake the experience was. I mean, it wasn't a big surprise to hear that, and I still enjoyed just seeing the homes -- until it became the same thing, over and over.

I so miss Michael Payne, and others from that era. I met him at a show he did here in D/FW, such a gracious and nice man! And very talented. I miss sophistication in decorating, from the hosts/owners, to respecting the homes. Trading Spaces could be entertaining in a cringe-worthy way; unfortunately, it got the ball rolling in the sensationalistic and "reality TV" direction we see now.

Went to my local Sherwyn-Williams paint store, the guy said they had just sold a lot of paint to an HGTV crew who was doing a local house for TV.

I said, great, maybe you can get some good local publicity from that.

He said the TV crew did such an awful, slapped together job that Sherwyn-Williams didn't even want people to know that was their paint.

I detest stainless steel appliances. I hate open concept. I have a semi open concept and it is awful. I do not like most of the shows my husband likes, but the kitchen and TV are in the same room. My dream home would have an eat in kitchen, a dining room, a den, and a living room. Each room would have DOORS that you could CLOSE!

Sherry, we have what you describe, but added a bit of an open concept in the addition/remodel. In the eight years since the remodel was completed we have eaten in the dining room ONE time and that was when we had a guest in the colder months and couldn't dine on the screen porch. Dh & I used to eat every meal in the dining room. Now we eat almost every meal at the raised bar in the kitchen/keeping room or on the porch when the weather allows. We have TVs in the keeping room and the living room. Maybe you just need to get another TV ... one you can watch while your dh is watching something you don't like.

I've learned to embrace the bit of openness the remodel gave us. I never really liked being closed off in the kitchen. Now dh & I can work together in the kitchen or he can sit at the bar while I cook and we can talk. We still have the option to close off rooms, so maybe what I have is the best of both worlds.

Stainless isn't bad if you know how to clean it. Rubbing alcohol keeps mine smudge free.

We have another TV and I understand that others like stainless, but I don't. It's not the cleaning, it's the way it looks. I use my dining room all the time. I guess I'm just saying that while all the HGTV shows show all the open concept and stainless steel that they are doing to sell their house, they wouldn't sell it to me!

I wasn't on this forum until after we made an offer on our new house in September (we move in two weeks). I want to redo the kitchen at least a little bit, which is from 1978.

BUT. Now that I've been reading this forum obsessively for a few weeks and learning about "good" kitchen layouts, I have a different perspective when I look at listings. Last night, I went through recently sold houses in my new area just to see what the kitchens are like and to get ideas of what would be "normal" around there. I had an issue with every single one, almost instantly! Some of them were remodeled recently, and I still had a visceral reaction. ("WHY would anyone DO that?!)

When I first started looking for a house in August, those newer kitchens would've gotten a gleeful thumbs-up from me! Last night, I found myself relieved that at least the kitchen is old, so I can remodel without feeling like I'm being wasteful.

(And my new house is a twin of many houses in that area, so I was able to see what ideas work and don't work.)

The thing that gets me about these shows is that the concept of a "starter home" is all but lost on the persnickety whippersnappers that are home shopping. They seem to feel entitled that their first home be their dream home.

My first home was a bit on the low end but we were delighted because it was a house! We had a house! So we worked and improved it and got promotions at work and eventually were able to sell and buy another, better home. And so on.

And now I see little 20 somethings walk into a perfectly lovely home and turn their nose up when the fixtures are older or the decorating not the hottest trend of the moment. They actually have the almighty nerve to look disgusted that they might be expected to live in such a hovel.

I want to smack them. They have no idea.

Me, too, cearbhaill. Our first home cost less than a low-end car does today. We fixed it up as best we could and lived in it for awhile before finally moving up a bit. The guy we sold it to paid cash. In a paper bag. Seriously. When we drove by, the windows were boarded up which confirmed our suspicions that he was using it to grow pot. LOL

I think stainless appliances look like a laboratory. I have better things to do in life than wipe fingerprints all day.

The thing that cracks me up is that everyone one Property Brothers or Love It or List It cram into the bathroom to brush their teeth or fix their hair. Sorry, no one does this; we go to the bath one at a time. Now, I don't think I would like only one toilet............

I love House Hunters. Whenever someone asks "But where are you going to put YOUR clothes, honey?" I get to take a drink.

DH pointed out that they always make the homeowners take out the toilet, but never show them how to drain it first.

I'm so with you Sherry_7bAL, I have never been a fan of open concept, stainless nor granite, or even tile backsplashes for that matter - kitchens are noisy enough as it is, adding more hard surfaces for sounds to bounce off of, while someone may be watching TV in the same big room has never made sense to me. Rooms people, houses need walls and rooms. :)

The house my husband decided he liked the best when we were shopping for one had a semi-open kitchen, one of our first projects was to have the ponywall/bar knocked down and the wall lengthened to make an archway between the now eat-in kitchen and the livingroom, what a lovely difference that made, I even put long drapes from Ikea on the kitchen side of the archway so it can be closed off, just love the kitchen now and the livingroom moreso. We replaced appliances and would like to replace the counters but they'll be a formica type (as they are now), will always keep vinyl on that floor, I like the padding underfoot and ease of cleaning. I like rocks outside, but not in my kitchen.

I'm not a big fan of the microwave over a slide-in stove. That seems to be the thing in with these updates. I love a cook top with a separate wall oven or double ovens.

I have watched a few episodes of Fixer Upper and like it. However, tonight I saw a rerun on Netflix of it that had the refrigerator and stove on opposite sides of a 9 foot long island.

what cracks me up is that they all think if there is 2 sinks in the "en suite" (haha) then they will buy the house., if they is no double vanity, then the house is an epic "fail"., oh pleeze!! we i grew up, there were 7 people and 1 bathroom!! i really think MOST of these shows are fake anyway. the only show that has a REAL budget, cost & timeline is "holmes makes is right". his projects actually take months not 3 days!!!

i just like to see how they decorate the spaces and location

At my age the last thing I want is, to brush my teeth next to anyone. Gross. Comeback single sinks please!

The HGTV renovations cost less than reality because the buyers/owners aren't paying for the interior designer. HGTV is paying the designer, so it's the cost of materials, permits, and onsite labor.

Love this thread! I'm not into Hgtv, but when I'm with my mom she watches it for hours and hours and hours. She's 89 and I'm just glad to have time with her.

the only one I like is the one with the hot guy in the trench coat in the opening sequence. Income property...I think.

He is just so darn cute!!

love the house hunters meme.

dyhgarden, they don't pay for the labor, that's how they keep the budget..the labor would double (and more) the price. The labor is the most expensive thing in the remodel(these days). But since it's a show, the labor costs are covered. I think materials might also get steep discount, because it's a good advertisement for the manufacturer.

We remodel right now, no interior designer at all..financially it's very, very far from any HGTV nonsense, which nobody really believes anyway. Having said that-I do watch HGTV sometimes..it's mildly entertaining, and takes your mind off things. Also sometimes they do mention something important, just really fast, LOL.

PS One of the guys on our contractor's team actually worked for HGTV for some period, on a crew..he told me what a joke it is, and how they ask the workers to swipe a hammer,say, 5 times, until they get their best camera shot)). It's a staged show, it can be better or worse, useful or useless, but it's still a staged reality show.