It was my pleasure! I hope you get some good help today! :)

I hope so too!

Here are a few more photos, since I reached the limit in the first post:

I have always thought that this goliath expanding table was the best of both worlds. You may want to consider something like this for your dining room. It usually sits as a hall table but can be expanded to seat eight comfortably or 10 in a pinch. It only makes sense if you really are not intending to use the dining table on a regular basis and have a place to store the chairs and leaves.

Oh, practigal, I actually have one of those. Mine is vintage, but it expands from a slim entry table to a dining table that seats eight. I bought it because it was such a marvel of engineering!

I think that table could be perfect for us, and I like the way it looks much more than the round folding type. Thanks!

Is the laundry room floor the same height as the garage/workshop, or the same height as the rest of the home?

It's the same height as the garage/workshop. My first question to DH was 'can we just make the door swing the other way?' to which he said: 'No.'

I have to head out and attend a seminar today, but I'll be back in the afternoon to respond to any more questions. Thanks again and in advance!

Assuming this leaves enough room for a functional kitchen layout too, would you be open to having some sort of low-bookcase/half-wall room divider like this?

The reason I ask is because I think it'd be nice for your circumstances to be able to reorient the living room furniture to face the kitchen. It does a few things:

• facilitates conversation between someone in the kitchen and someone in the living room (a priority of yours)
• means all the living room seating is also facing out the deck -- Especially if the kitchen windows are enlarged, you'll then have seating with a view, which you also wanted
• provides a natural place for the TV at a more comfortable viewing height than you currently have it
• provides an additional opportunity for storage in the divider

In general, it would mean everything you want to look at from the living room -- a person in the kitchen, the TV, and the view out the back -- is all in the same direction, so your living room furniture could easily be arranged to face them all.

The TV could either be mounted against the divider as shown in the first image above or installed inside with a pop-up TV lift as with these:

P.S. The reason you can't swap the door swing is because of the steps, I am assuming. Swinging the other way, the door could knock someone off the steps.

I have been thinking about this on and off today. Your floor plan has some fundamental and not easily rectified foot traffic issues. Namely, how do you enter the home through the garage without immediately getting in the way of of people in the kitchen/living room? Because of the fireplace and the water heater, there are limited spots on the border between the garage and the inside of the house where a door could go.

There isn't really a perfect spot for it, but I think putting the door to the right of the fireplace (as you are facing the fireplace) is the lesser of all evils. If you did move the TV to a half wall as I suggested above, then the new door and the area in front of the fireplace can become a back foyer of sorts. It would meant that, when you enter the home from the garage, you are not deposited smack in the middle of either the kitchen or the living room. You can easily get to either room from where you enter, but you aren't by default deposited in the cook's way or crossing in the way of someone watching TV.

With that garage door conclusion, I began thinking more about the laundry room. You have an ideal closet/hall bath situation where a washer and dryer could go on the other end of the house. That would put them closer to the bedrooms, which is always nice because that is where laundry is used/generated, and more importantly, it would remove the last need for a door entering directly into the kitchen. You don't need a door in the kitchen entering from the garage there if the garage entrance installed on the other side of the fireplace, and you don't need an entrance to the laundry room if the laundry is elsewhere in the house.

It also makes all the space where the laundry room is available for other use. Because you do not want to move the deck slider, expanding the kitchen into the laundry room buys you a long, continuous stretch of counter in your kitchen that you would not otherwise have had.

I realize annexing the laundry room into the kitchen requires you to raise the laundry room floor, but I'm hoping that is not cost-prohibitive for you guys since your husband's labor is free.

So, how about this?

That kitchen ticks off pretty much all your boxes.

• Maximizing the view. I lined the entire back wall with windows above the counter and a floor-to-ceiling window next to the existing slider. If you can afford to add the windows, you have plenty of other storage space in this plan and easily afford to swap uppers for more view.
• Two-cook kitchen. You have two large counters and enough space to move around so you both can work in there at the same time. Without bothering a cook working at the primary prep or baking counter, a second person could do dishes, unload the dishwasher, or get a snack. The sink and range are not across the aisle from each other, so there will be no crossing paths with other people because of that.
• The counter run with the fridge in it is extra-deep to accommodate the standard depth of your fridge and to give you a place where your toaster and coffee maker can live on the counter without taking up the whole counter. The KitchenAid has a corner of the counter to live in on the other side, where it is both out of the way and handy to you when you are baking.
• The dog's dishes can go either in the half wall or in front of the floor-to-ceiling window next to the dish storage cabinet.
• Cookbooks and pantry items (and anything else) can go in the built-ins next to the fireplace.
• There's also a massive amount of storage in the tall cupboards by the slider. If you start canning, that would be an ideal place to store the fruits of your labor that you won't be using for a while.

The entry table in the foyer is one that expands into a dining table for when you need one, as practigal suggested.

Since this is not your forever home, I don't think completely annihilating the dining room makes sense. Future renters, future buyers, etc. will expect a dining room, and you yourselves need a spot for a table to go the rare times you will expand the entry table.

So left a logical place for a dining table to be, but I furnished it instead to allow for a hobby you do actually enjoy on a day-to-day basis. I've drawn in a pair of comfy chairs and a little side table so you can sit with a mug of tea or something and watch the birds. It'd be easy to move these out of the way when you do set up the dining table:

You might have another, better idea for how using that bonus space would best benefit you. Gym area, maybe? Rolling craft cart?

I've actually done something similar in my home. We don't really have dinner parties, it's just the two of us living here, and we almost never eat together anyway. We definitely don't need or use an entire dedicated dining space.

Instead, I moved all the furniture out of the area where a dining table was designed to go in our condo, and I use the empty space to do yoga/physical therapy there several times a week. We have a smaller table where we do eat pushed up behind our living room sofa like this:

And just so everything is in front of you again, here is what I had in mind for a half wall in the living room with a TV in it:

Here is a horrible photoshop of how that would look with all the windows added:

I love the idea of annexing the laundry room space for the kitchen, that would certainly solve the problem of all that traffic. I'm afraid DH will not be as enthusiastic, but I'll see how he feels about it when he gets home. I think that door and the traffic that goes through it is probably the most challenging thing about our space. I spent quite a lot of time trying to find pictures of renovated kitchens like ours and I found a lot that were similar but never saw one that has as many passageways.

I definitely like the half-wall, I've always been bothered by the height of the tv but never could think of a solution.

I agree that removing any chance of ever having a dining room would be bad and I like your solution, I do yoga in the evenings so having a spot with a view to do it in would be nice.

And I don't think your photoshop is horrible! It's quite inspiring, actually. I'd love to have that much window space on that wall.

Thank you very much!

Hey rebunky! Nothing serious to worry about. I have just been extremely suddenly and totally swamped with a combination of family stuff and work stuff. I'm actually not really back. I took yesterday/today off of responsibility to preserve my own sanity, but I have to jump back in it tomorrow. Alas.

Jutsuri, where I do yoga is in front of our balcony slider, and it is SO lovely with the sunshine and the view out. I am sure you will love doing yoga in front of your slider too.

Jillius is, in no small part, responsible for the awesomeness I revealed just yesterday. :)

Glad you're back, Jillius, even if only for a day. Hope your life settles down so we can enjoy your design genius more often. Bravo on your plan.

jutsuri, as rebunky said, you're in good hands. One of the best hands.

I feel very lucky to be getting help from such a respected guru!

Unfortunately DH vetoed the laundry room annexation, he pointed out that the garage roof is lower than the rest of the house so if we raised the floor the ceiling height in that area would be less than 6'6". He's gung-ho about tearing out the wall, but pretty reluctant to make any changes to that door.

As much as I want to see it happen it may not be possible to change the flow of traffic through the kitchen, but if I can get the sink and range on the same wall at least I won't have to dodge people as I'm cooking. Or perhaps by putting an island in we can create an alternate route.

There's no way to get around the fact that the kitchen will have to be small, so I wonder if we could provide a spot for the second cook to work that was close to but not in the kitchen? A spot that could serve as the baking center or as the second cook's place to work, that was near the kitchen but not necessarily in it?

Would it be possible to make something that could serve as a baking station for me, but could serve as a dining room hutch for someone else? I've never had a hutch so I'm not sure how much room they usually take up, or if having a counter in one is a normal thing.

Does anyone out there have a dining room hutch that you can also use as a work space?

Ha, I suspect absence is making the heart grow fonder here, but I am very flattered by all these nice comments!

Did you ask your husband if it was possible to add a garage entrance to the right of the fireplace? And also about the feasibility of moving the laundry to where I suggested near the bedrooms?

Even if the laundry room does not become part of the kitchen because of roof height/husbands, it could be a really awesome pantry accessible from the kitchen, which would not promote the same kind of traffic through the kitchen and would also take some of the storage burden off a small kitchen. But you'd still need to move the washer/dryer and add a different garage door elsewhere to put an end to people entering the kitchen for reasons other than needing to be in the kitchen or pantry.

Here's an idea. I'm not sure the dining area can work with your current LR furniture. I'm thinking a bench behind the sofa and a table similar to what Practigal suggested.

Husband is not going for the changing the door to the garage idea, I'm not sure why he's so opposed to it but the way we work is I propose ideas and he gets to 'yes' or 'no' them and he's giving this one a definite 'no.' Moving the laundry to the hall closet is a 'maybe.'

I've been trying to mock up some options for layouts, but this week is super busy for me. I'm continuing to follow this thread and I'm doing my best to think up various possible solutions to propose though.

Thanks again!

Hm. In your situation, I'd be pressing for a real reason why the garage door switch is off the table. Perhaps knowing his objection would mean we can come up with a solution to fix it and make you both happy.

Putting a stop to through traffic in your kitchen will make more of a difference in functionality than almost any other change.

Perhaps a visual would help?

We talked it over, it's more about the functionality of the garage than the look of the extra door. I forgot about the big built-in on the other side of that part of the wall, it has electrical sockets already installed and is the charging station/storage area for power tools. Husband is happy with the way he has set up the garage and workshop and doesn't want to have to change things about them in order to do the kitchen.

We are definitely open to changing the living room furniture, in fact we're thinking that it will probably be necessary especially when it comes to the design phase.

Forgive me for being blunt but it makes no sense to have a super-functional garage but not put that same diligence into creating a super-functional kitchen. It should only take a few hours to move sockets to move the garage power station.

I'd really rather not go into detail about how we use our garage and why my husband is particularly opposed to changing it. It would be nice if it would suffice to say that changing it is not an option.

Question. Do you use the kitchen more or does DH use the garage more?

If you spend more time in the kitchen than DH spends in the garage, (assuming DH doesn't use the garage for work) then I would think it would be more important for YOU to have a functional kitchen than for DH to have a functional play area.

Obviously if DH uses the garage as part of his work area, then the priority needs to go to his work area.

DH uses the garage for work, that's why he doesn't want to change anything and it's why I don't want to push him to make any changes.

Here is a plan I came up with, it got the husband's stamp of approval so now I'm coming here for some more opinions.

I squeezed all of the appliances onto one wall, sacrificing room between them but hoping that the 9' island would make up for it. I think compact appliances are a must for our space so no 36" range or sink for us, I wouldn't mind swapping their locations though. I'm not sure how it would look to have the counter that close to the slider, it would be at least an inch or two away but I'm still a bit wary. The shallow pantry/hutch would serve as storage for less-used items and foods.

This is what I was thinking of for the fridge/pull out arrangement:

Here are a couple of hutches that I thought looked similar to what would work for us:

I realize that this wouldn't be a perfect kitchen, but I think creating a perfect kitchen in this space is impossible so the best solution for us is all I'm hoping for.

I'm no expert, but if that 18 b/w the sink and the fridge is a DW I believe you'd need 1-1,5" for a filler/panel(?) to support the countertop.

I think you're crowding too much on that back wall in that most recent idea.

This suggestion was in your previous thread. What do you like/not like here:

Also, it's really best to have your countertop where you need it--next to the sink and range. Nine feet of counter sounds great, but when it's across the aisle from (and not next to) your sink, range, or fridge it not very useful.

In our last kitchen we extended the length of the galley about three feet. In theory this was a great idea, but in practice one side became a 3 foot catch-all because it was near the garage door and too far from the sink to be useful prep space.

On the above plan, would it be possible to recess the fridge into the back wall and keep the sliders?

The only things I don't like about the above plan are that by putting the fridge against that wall the slider has to go and the potential for that space being a dining area in the future would be gone.

The fridge couldn't be recessed into that wall because it would take too much room from the already-small bathroom on the other side.

If it's not possible for all three major appliances to go on that back wall, I'm afraid the fridge is the one that has to stay there.

If we have to put either the stove or sink in the island, which arrangement would be better? Moving the stove to the exterior wall and sink to the island will require more changes and be more expensive, and will also mean loosing the outside view while at the sink. The upside is better ventilation, is that worth all of the negatives?

And I forgot about the DW entirely when making that drawing, DH thinks a dishwasher is unnecessary which is a mystery to me since he is the one who usually does the dishes.

Have the sink and DW on the island and a prep sink under the window b/w the fridge and the range.

Edit-Since you plan to rent the house in the future I think you should plan for a DW.

DH uses the garage for work, that's why he doesn't want to change anything and it's why I don't want to push him to make any changes.

Work trumps the rest. :)

I would put your sink in the island. A stove in an island is a danger.

"Work trumps the rest. :)"

Thanks for understanding!

If the sink is on the island I would like it to not line up directly with the stove, so my next question is: should the stove be nearer the fridge and the sink further away, or the other way around?

If the stove is closer to the slider and the sink closer to the fridge it would mean the work flow goes: fridge - sink - prep area - stove without any long walks between stops. The downside is that it shifts the window towards the fridge which means the view isn't as good. If the stove is closer to the fridge the work flow would have one longish walk from the fridge to the sink, but then it would move efficiently back from the sink - prep area - stove, and the window would be in a better spot. Which of these options is the better one?

I don't think you're going to feel a significant improvement in kitchen function unless you get the sink and range on the same run. IMO, 5'9" between sink and range should be avoided if possible and in your kitchen it's possible. My old kitchen had sink 5 feet across corridor aisle from the range. No good.

I know you're convinced an island is the answer, but I disagree. Here's another try. It's difficult to tell but there's a 3 foot pantry with microwave on the garage side of the fridge to limit fridge/garage door collisions.

This keeps a corner next to the fireplace where you could put the TV so you could have your sofa under the front window so you could see the TV, kitchen and backyard at the same time.

I was trying to draw something similar to bb did (great minds lol), but couldn't quite figure where you preferred to have the window. I'll post it anyway as a different idea.

I'm sure that for someone else an island wouldn't be the right answer, but I'm even more sure that for myself and my husband it is the only layout that we will be happy with. So I ask that you please work with our perhaps unreasonable desires, to help us create the best kitchen for us in our space.

I forgot to mention it, but if we have the sink and stove across from each other the distance between the counters will have to shrink to 4' or 4'6" at most.

I'm heading out for some errands, I'll be back in a bit.

Jutsuri, I can totally get behind everything you are trying to accomplish. I am all about breaking the rules to get what you want. But, with all of the restrictions you have, I have to go with Benjesbride's plan. Aside from the sink not being by the window, having the garage door almost open into the LR would drive me crazy. For me personally, it would ruin the entire renovation. So, if it can't be moved, then you should seriously consider the above plan.

It's unfortunate that you can't see that I really have been trying to contribute ideas that work with your wishlist; I've given you at least three solid layouts. I don't take time creating 3d renderings for folks just to be an annoyance.

I think I'm out of ideas to improve your kitchen given the requirements I'm aware of. Best wishes to you and your project.

Well, you do have a lot more restrictions than most people. I do understand if DH uses the garage for work, that changing that might not work but I do think there are other areas where you may want to consider function better.

I don't recall if this was previously suggested or not. I realize there might be a laundry room there that would prevent receding the fridge into the laundry or garage space back there but I thought I'd throw it out anyway. I like that it actually gives you decent prep counter space between sink and range. I don't like that the DW will either need to be in the prep space or on the other side of the sink which is actually better placement if you don't mind that you can't open fridge and DW at the same time.

Or simply move prep sink to island like this. Move island a bit closer to wall cabinets.

Note that I think you should change the door swing. Yeah, I know, it will be a bit annoying when going out to the laundry garage but I think that is better than the door swinging into the fridge and work counter. Someone could come in and bonk someone getting something from the fridge or doing anything else at the end of the counter near the door if it swings the way you currently have it swinging.

I'm sorry but right now I'm fighting a head cold so really can't wrap my head around much but after the holiday I'll try and look.

Well, I just talked over everything from today's discussion with my husband and rejected it all. He wants to just work out our layout together and then go over it with his cabinet guy and ask for opinions regarding style instead of layout.

So instead of wasting any more of your time, I'll just take his advice and work things through with him instead.

Thanks anyways, and sorry for the inconvenience!