Thank you for the stories AJ, they bring back some really fond memories from when I was working in the homes. Madge sounds like a real hoot, I bet she has some great stories to tell.

Especially when they are not your own relatives, it is so important to know the residents, what they did in their younger years and that they still are that person (maybe more so!) We are connected to a senior residence where they schedule Great Courses videos, and they are very popular. More residents than ever are college graduates and ran businesses or professional practices, and they need to feed their minds. (Me, I'm planning to do a Khan Academy course to keep up with my kids, and I'm 58!) Some people would like to be of service, but their bodies or voices or memories don't cooperate, and it must be vey frustrating.

Here is a timely post I saw today. We often think of giftedness only in terms of children, but think of the adults you know who are clearly gifted, and imagine that at least one of the seniors you work with might be, too. Of course, the ideas in the post apply to many people, not just gifted. I liked the far-away family who Skype with the grandparent, then leave the camera on after the conversation so the grandparent can watch the children playing.

On Gifted Elders

Such a very good article bpathome. Living in a very high-tech community of over-achieving and gifted scientists, engineers and others, and being in my late 60's, I often wonder how it will be for many of these entering assisted living and nursing homes around here. We have many good programs for retirees such as the Osher Lifelong Learning Institute, but there lies the cut-off point it seems.

Embothrium - you do know this is the Conversations side of the forum, right?

Thanks for the kind words and bpathome, I'm going to have to read that article from my phone as my work computer blocks the site.

Re Madge: She's outspoken and seemingly fearless (although of course this could be a result of a variety of things), and I can't help but smile when I think of her. I don't think it's ageist to recognize that many old people resort to childlike/childish behavior - it's just a fact of life. At 95, she's certainly not likely to change even a little bit, so I think we have to embrace the person for who and what they are, even if their brashness makes us cringe. When we take offense, we are the ones who suffer.

I love this story, Jen. I like having conversations with the fellow residents where my parents live. Their generation lived through so much, and they have a lot of stories and wisdom. I also ask my parents lots of questions about their lives, and especially love it when my kids are present to hear. People don't become useless when they get old, we just have to find new ways for them to be useful again.

In thinking more about gifted elders, how about the people never diagnosed with, say, Aspergers, or somewhere on the high end of the autism spectrum, and were just considered "quirky" or "odd". Being in a living facility can be highly stressful.

As for Madge, well, I think that we all become even more of who we are! Fabulous folks become more fabulous. Those who don't suffer fools, suffer them even less.

Those who don't suffer fools, suffer them even less.

Yes. I completely agree.

I really admire the work of the staff at the facility where I volunteer, as they seem to genuinely care about sparking interest and creativity in the elders. I've just looked at their calendar for December, and it's full of fun things to do. They encourage their residents to continue to give back to the community and they're adopting a local animal shelter for Christmas and doing some things to assist there. People never lose their need to feel as though they are needed and productive in some way.

I would imagine living in a facility is very difficult though. I saw how it affected my grandparents when they progressed to different levels of care and thus were in a couple of different facilities. Having been self-sufficient well into their 90s, it was a massive upheaval for them to move house and go to live among other people. Grannie would occasionally say that she didn't really like living in such close proximity to "all these old people." But by then, they were in a place with skilled nursing care round-the-clock and an adjacent hospital/ER. She knew it was where she needed to be, but it was a compromise for sure.

While of course the amount of effort a facility puts into it's patients is extremely important, I think a lot ofproblems for the elderly in homes is they feel ignored or cast off by the people they love most in the world. While it couldn't have been the farthest thing from my mother's intent with my step father (he had alzheimers) it didn't stop him from feeling that way. She visited him almost every day but his kids from a prior marriage didn't and I think that broke his spirit. He declined very quickly as a result and passed within months of being in the home. The facility was very good but his heart was essentially broken.

Ironically, as it would turn out I had cared for his father in a nursing home a few years before he and my mother met. He too had alzheimers and I have some really funny memories of him chasing some of the women he crushed on down the halls in his wheelchair. Talk about a hoot!

That is so true, lukki! Just two weeks ago, I was talking to a group of ladies at the facility about the children from a local preschool coming in to to visit them. One lady remarked that the little ones always bring her something - she commented specifically on a Valentine - while her own great-grandchildren can't be bothered. She's a dear, sweet lady, and I detected a definite sadness in her eyes. Not bitterness or resentment - just sadness. I would imagine that having a community of sorts in the home is a good thing, but to feel discarded by one's own family ... It's heartbreaking.

A 'Thread about old people'. Every time I see the title of this thread I cringe. It just sounds really bad and bothers me quite a bit. I hope people will reconsider referring to our elders as 'old people'. People do not like to be called old, worse yet, they do not like to be laughed at for it. It is a hurtful and derogatory way of viewing, segregating them, even if not meant or felt that way. Growing old is not for the faint of heart. Our elders' sense of usefulness, value and purpose is diminished enough without being categorized or set apart by the rest of the world as 'old people'. It's dehumanizing. Yes, they are very much aware of their aging bodies and minds and how their abilities are faltering. They know this is probably apparent to those around them, even if they try to hide it. They worry about how they might embarrass themselves as they decline. A sense of dignity to the end is important to all of us, I think. So let's be more considerate.

You may not think they sense how you see them or that it comes across at all but be certain that it does, in ways you are probably not aware, and to the very end.

There are young people. And there are old people. I can't imagine someone in their 90s who doesn't know they are old and readily admit to it. It's not an insult. It's a fact. We all have an age, after all. There's not one darn thing dehumanizing about my thread (including the title), unless someone chooses to see something that isn't there.

Old age is to be celebrated. I find the suggestion that there is somehow something wrong with the term "old people" offensive. Old people rock.

You can dismiss my experience but that does not make it not true or valid points.

Oh, snookums2.

You have a nice evening, ok?

Nice try. Really, that you are online laughing at your old people shows you are not quite ready for it.

furbydaphneoscar, you are a special person.

Ah thanks Marlene! I certainly have lots of faults (per my thread about yelling at my SIL) but I have so much empathy for the elderly. I visit a home each week, and every visit, I get more than I give. I get this from the OP's thread as well.

I just wish that I could come up with a program to help those people living in homes to feel useful and feel that their life is still meaningful. It is a struggle for me to come up with a response when a resident tells me that her husband of 52 years has passed away, her children are out of state, she can't live at home any longer, she no longer can make the most basic choice of when to go to the bathroom, and she prays every night to God to make it her last night.

Snookums, you obviously know little to nothing about the people posting in this thread. While I appreciate your feelings where it concerns the aged, you are way off with your accusations here. You seem to think you have it all figured out, so I'm just curious as to what you've done when it comes to working with the aged, or finding ways to help make their lives a little more comfortable? Do you ever volunteer your time like AJ is? Have you ever helped to feed someone who can no longer feed themselves? Or sit and watch a show with them? How about listen to their woe's or stories with real interest? Give a senior a hug lately? Do you know how to help ambulate an elderly person who no longer can move for themselves? Have you ever stopped to help a senior get in and out of a wheelchair in a parking lot before? How about stopping to show someone an easier way to manoeuvre a wheelchair with a senior in it? Have you ever been on your way somewhere and stopped what you're doing to help a senior find a office they can't find? How about helping a senior find that can of gravy that's on sale? Have you ever had to clean up and change an old person who's embarrassingly messed themselves? Do you know how to do it in a way that preserves their dignity? How about paying for their groceries at the store when they come up short and are obviously embarrassed? Have you ever stepped in to let a senior hold your hand while she waits in the Oncologists office scared and by herself? Have you ever once stopped to help a senior load their bags of groceries into their car? I have and do OFTEN.

To be VERY clear here, no one is laughing at the old. And yes, I said old, because as AJ so eloquently pointed out that's what we are when we reach our 70's 80's and 90's, we are old. No one is saying that term as a means of disrespect, at 83, sadly my mother who I adore, is old, and yes I absolutely giggle at her Madge like personality because of the memories she and that personality have gifted me with. She's feisty, lives in a 5 bedroom house that she's always updating. She still works and has the busiest calender in our family, I ENDEARINGLY call her Bunny (as in Energizer Bunny).

We (as in the posters of this thread) would never be mean enough to laugh at people who are aging and I resent your accusations.

There is big difference between the mean spirited laughing of which you refer to and telling stories that have endeared someone, learn the difference.

lukki, I am not going to read much of your defensive post, but see the first clip. Yes, I do get the gist of the thread which, of course, is - obviously - not a bad thing to want to visit and offer companionship to the elderly. I am not making 'accusations' of intended disrespect of that privilege. However, It seems you are not aware of the pain and suffering of those in decline. Otherwise, laughing at them 'endearingly' would not be an option.

Ask those who are aging how they feel, not me.

P.S. It's just not right and I would not want my elderly treated that way. It hurts them.

lukkiirish, no, no, and hell no to your *assumption* re:being old when we are 70, 80, or 90~age, young OR old is a state of mind, and I believe that fact can be found on a few health/wellness internet sites. Yes, the numbers may be factual, but the mindset, spirit, and physical abilities are what differentiate one 'old person' from another 'old person'. By no means can you lump together everyone over the age of 69 as *being* old, and at a 'very young' 73 myself, take offense to your *opinion*, since that's really all it is, and not worth the time you've taken to type it or myself to even read it. Such shortsightedness on your part! You can only hope you'll be the fireball your Mother seems to be, or are you already seeing yourself as old, unable to identify with her free spirited nature, and finding her amusing instead? Just hope *you're* as fortunate.

So much of what we see as old age is really the difference between health and lack of health. My DH at 75 is quite active and strong and looks and acts a lot younger than many men in their 50s. There's recently a thing on Christie Brinkley at 60 posing in a bikini...heck I never looked that good in a 2 piece when I was 18!

I also find that I redefine what is "old age" on a regular basis. I grew up in the era of "never trust anyone over 30". I chuckle to think that the "Golden Girls" were in their 50s when the show started...hardly what I today would consider 'golden'.

There's been growing evidence that how we define ourselves by our age actually affects how we feel and behave. A few studies have shown that people who were told to live as they did when they were younger actually became younger in their behavior and improved in their physical abilities.

I think it's wonderful that Aunt Jen is spending time and bringing enjoyment into the lives of these people who are not in a circumstance I think any of us would prefer. And if she receives enjoyment from getting to know these folks and personality quirks, more's the better.

At some point people are going to have to stop trying to shape our language based on what makes them up uncomfortable or violates their 'safe space.'

The word "old" is not pejorative; it is an adjective. Describing an 80+ year old person as "old" is not disrespectful, wrong, or insensitive and it does not constitute verbal abuse.

Words like senior and terms like age-challenged are merely euphemisms. As such they are the insulting words, as their use implies that people of age are so emotionally fragile they cannot bear the word the euphemisms replace.

And no, not everyone is beautiful, not all bodies are to be celebrated, and age is not a state of mind. It is a number. Obviously not all 80 year olds are equivalent functionally and/or mentally, and that has more to do with lifestyle and genetics than the number. An eighty-year-old who is a gymnast, author, and Supreme Court justice is still eighty years old.

I will not be engaging in ridiculous argument. This thread was intended to be lighthearted and even tender. I feel both things towards the old ones in my life and always have. I completely agree with kswl's most recent post and appreciate how well she expressed the things that I haven't been eloquent enough to convey.

At 53, I'm feeling OLD today after being in an arena suite with a group of shrieking girls - surrounded by thousands of other shrieking girls - who were there to see One Direction. Maybe I should start a thread about YOUNG people. Their energy is amazing, and I look at them wistfully - recalling what once was for me as well. (I have also become a 1D fan. Those boys are freakin' adorable!)

We are all on something of a continuum. It's fascinating to observe and discuss the realities.

At sixty one, I would rather someone call me old than elderly.

It's almost as though people are competing for youth, youthfulness, or the appearance/ illusion of youth----in any iteration that is problematic. And in a real sense, being "old" doesn't mean you have lost-----it means you have won!

in a way the obsession with youth and age reminds me of that person you see in movies running up a down escalator. It looks wrong and like they just don't know any better :-)

"And in a real sense, being "old" doesn't mean you have lost-----it means you have won!"

kswl, that's a good point. I'm 100% sure my late husband would have loved the opportunity to be called old.

I don't see this thread as mocking or laughing at anyone, of any age. Just a positive sharing of anecdotes, and admiration for the residents Jen and others have met. It seems to be a mutually beneficial opportunity, a very good thing for everyone involved. I enjoy reading about it. I think if Madge read this, she'd be proud and tickled, not offended, to be thought about and celebrated .... she has a fan club here now. :)

Jen, my post was not in any way meant to argumentative toward you. Even my own kids get 'reamed' using the word *old* when talking about me, poor things. It *is* difficult to accept oneself as aging when feeling so vibrant, alive, and having more energy than my 38 and 43 year old DD's, but more in line with my older 53 yo 'energetic' DD. There isn't an 'appropriate' word that *feels* right to me, but when my soon-to-be SIL referred to me as a 'cougar', I have to admit it sounded pretty good, but know in my own mind that certainly doesn't 'define' me, but neither does old. As the saying goes, i'm 'stuck between a rock and a hard place'. I think *getting* older is acceptable, at least for the time being. ;)

"Don't resent growing old. Some are denied the privilege."

I'm with jen on this one--just because someone doesn't like being called old at 70-80-90+, it's really just trying to deny the truth because honey, you ARE old :). It isn't an insult, it's reality. I do agree somewhat with the distinction between active energetic old people v. sedentary or ill elderly. That does make an enormous difference in one's life, and in how one is perceived.

I had to laugh the other night; we took my MIL, who went into an assisted living facility a few months ago, out to dinner and she was telling us there is a 'lecherous old man' there who's been hitting on her(!). She then added thoughtfully that it makes sense because 'I'm one of the younger ones there after all'...which is utterly the opposite of reality! At 92 YO she is factually one of the oldest residents in her ALF. However although she has major mobility issues, she is also definitely one of the most active. So I guess you can be old and act young and vice versa in life.

Madge and I did have a conversation about how she believes she has earned the right to speak her mind. She told me her kids try to tell her, "Now, mother - you need to watch what you say to people" - but she waved her hand to indicate her dismissiveness of their concern and went right on talking. She would most definitely be tickled to know that her antics were being shared here, and I feel confident in saying that she would give a loud and hearty "Pfffffffffffft!" to any overly-sensitive political correctness.

I shared a few Madge stories with the facilities director, and she responded with, "Oh, I love my Madge!" MY Madge. Hell-on-wheels Madge who calls it like she sees it. I find it charming that others are so fond of her. But like I said earlier, I would not want to find myself on her sh*t list, and I'm quite sure she has one that she keeps up to date. ;-)

Madge is a real character. She sounds like Sophia from Golden Girls.

I look forward to getting a "pass" when speaking my mind because I'm old. I pretty much do it now, I just don't get away with it.

I keep thinking of Maxine. Peas in a pod!

I love Maxine cards, and used to get them from my kids when I was younger~it's obvious they now think I would find them insulting.

As for being more 'free' in speaking your mind, I get 'chewed out' when i'm blunt, yet i've always been that way. My kids have become *harder* on me as i've gotten older.

Runninginplace, it's not that i'm denying it, just that I don't feel it. Just something I can't seem to wrap my head around. My best friend of 55+ years and myself have had an on going discussion on this very subject over the last couple of years. We've compared ourselves to former classmates we see occsionally when I visit her, and always walk away shaking our heads and saying, 'they're so OLD'. We just can't seem to identify with them. We don't see it as denial, but more as those people 'allowing' themselves to *become* old. I'll stand firm on my thinking age being a state of mind, as I'm convinced it has helped me maintain a certain mindset regarding old age. I'm just not ready, yet! ;)

Oh Patty Cakes! You're right, my mind wasn't thinking from that perspective when I wrote my response, but that is very true. I was thinking more about the physical part with our bodies where illness and disabilities and pain are concerned. Let's face it, at 70 no matter how young our minds are, our bodies don't necessarily cooperate right? I get what you're saying though and agree whole heartedly.

Snookems, if you don't like the title, don't read the thread, it's as simple as that.

My Mom always said she wasn't going to grow up until her father did...he died at 99 and never "grew up". Neither did she. She used to bowl all the time with a senior group and when you got to be 80 you got a golden age pass and didn't have to pay any more. When she applied, they said, "Oh no. You have to be 80 to get this." And she delightfully said, "I am 80!" She never looked, felt or acted her age and she made a great role model for me.

My dad is 73, and acts like he's in his 20s. :D he had a custom Harley up until a few months ago, dates, is very hip, etc. I'm in my 40s, and feel like his mom sometimes! His mom (my Mema) was so hip, too, even in her 80s. She was a hoot.

So, anyone know of a nice lady I can set my dad up with? I'd like him to settle down someday! She has to love adventure. :D

MizGG, too bad we don't live closer to each other. I have several friends around your Dad's age I could fix him up with. Most still ski, hike, and do all sorts of travel and fun things.

The Maxine character is a favorite. I've mentioned before that I was 'her' for Halloween a couple of times. I printed up some of her sayings and pinned them to a chenille robe, wore my big bunny slippers, wore big sunglasses and fixed up my hair and used a couple of other props. Maxine was my dear Mother's name and I really did it partly as a tribute to her and her feisty side which she didn't show too often. Won a couple of costume contests at work with it.

This has been an interesting thread to follow. I appreciate the spirit in which AuntJen posted it. Perhaps it's because I see a bit of "Madge" in myself that I don't like, but those cartoons showing old women telling it like it is makes me cringe. I don't aspire to be like that at all... I admire older people who still manage to demonstrate grace, dignity and tactfulness at their age in their circumstances. My fear is that I end up like Madge.

I just wanted to say that I'm glad you've been helping out, Jen. And I enjoyed the stories of some of your new friends.

Hopefully bull in a China shop "Madge" doesn't slip up and clobber one of the other residents with her chair sometime. Particularly one with osteoporosis.

It is true we cannot change aggressive people and need to find ways to cope with their behavior in order to continue functioning around them ourselves. But we don't need to accept or approve of rudeness as it is never endearing. I share the previously stated inclination to see "characters" as people acting out due to unresolved issues.

Acting out often at the expense of others.

Ok, another hopefully light hearted story from the Assisted Living files--my MIL has been in a very nice facility for several months. A couple of weeks ago I was waiting for my husband to bring his mom out from her room for an outing, when I saw a woman come rolling around the corner in a wheelchair. I simultaneously heard an elderly female voice calling from the hallway from which she was emerging "Angelica!" "Angelica!" "Angelica!" At about the 4th Angelica, the wheelchair lady half turned without breaking her rolling stride and bellowed "Oh SHUT UP!" I almost fell on the floor laughing. And now it's become a nice in joke with my man. All I have to do is call out 'hey Angelica, SHUT UP!' and he almost falls on the floor laughing too.

MizGG, moi? I'm a 'hip'(or my kids think!)73 years *young*, and feel 'the time has come' for a mate, or simply share my life with someone. No financial worries, good health. I don't 'do' on line hook ups, never have, never will. I'm leaving it to the man upstairs. Timing is supposedly, everything. He knows where, when, AND who. ;)

I think I just spammed myself. Lol I know most of you ladies don't hold back when giving an opinion, so tell me if i've overstepped boubdaries by my honesty. MizGG made the comment, someone else mentioned having friends, so thought I would throw it out there. DD has mentioned 'finding me a man' and i've told her to mind her own business. Am sure MizGG wasn't being serious, and her Father feels the same as I do.

Pattycakes, I almost said in my reply, Me!!! MizGGs dad is a little older than one guy I dated long ago. Well he would be 5 years older than that guy but age is just a number.

Jen, I am happy that you are enjoying your volunteering. I hope it is okay to share my MIL here. My MIL is a "character" but not because she is difficult, even though she is and has always been. This 99 year old woman lives on her own, takes 2 buses to a senior center that she likes Monday-Thursday, has a me day on Friday to primp and wash her hair, takes care of her own finances, apartment, shopping, and some meals. We live 5 hours away, her other son 2. We see her as often as possible, stay in touch with phone calls. She does not "even take an aspirin". She does not get a flu shot and never sees a doctor. Two years ago, she broke her hip stepping off a curb after leaving the casino. Today she has full mobility- no walker. She carries a cane but does not use it. She still wears her little pumps with a low heel and sheer stockings. She had wonderful therapists at rehab for 30 days but her recovery is due to her sheer willpower. She discontinued therapy after she was home. Her only affliction is that her hearing is poor- has been for decades I think. This makes for trying but also hilarious (being nice here, no sarcasm) loud phone conversations. Yes there are things about her living independently that concern us, but she is so bound and determined not to be "a burden" that she rebuffs all suggestions of any other living arrangements. Yes, it would be easier and less stressful for her sons, but she is one strong woman in more ways than one.

While leading the group in a game of trivia, I had selected a number of Christmas-related questions to perhaps help them get into the holiday spirit. I asked, "In the song 'Winter Wonderland', who do we pretend the snowman is?" That was met with blank stares. So I sang the lyrics: "In the meadow we can build a snowman / then pretend that he is ..." and looked around expectantly. All of a sudden, three of the elders piped up at the same time: "Charlie Brown!"

LOL! Well - it fits!

hahaha yes it does, and I think I like it better~new improved version! Am considering looking into doing some volunteering after the Christmas holidays. Thanks Jen. ;)

happy2b, I can only hope i'm as fortunate.

Aunt Jen, I just want to thank you for volunteering. Many residents are placed & rarely visited. I am sure your hours are the highlight of the day for many!