Kitty, where are you located?

Spinosad is one of those "organic" insecticides that are derived from some plant. It is supposed to rank low on the toxic level.

Check out the reference guide that includes toxicity levels:

http://rosemania.com/catalog.htm

What dormant spray to use? When? Thx.

Hoovb, I'm still trying to figure out what the dormant spray should be. I'm going to ask Gary at Laguna Hills what he would use and also ask at the O C Farm supply. I was planning to spray just after pruning and again one week later to catch anything that might have been missed. This is supposed to kill 90 percent of the thrips. The latest cold weather has helped so much. I noticed the roses at the local arboretum are able to make buds and open roses without any damage. Any new leaves are also looking good. This weather is making some nice looking roses but I'm going to prune everything next week while it's cool so hopefully I have more time to enjoy spring roses before thrips come around.

Thank you Kim, that's good to know. I hope I can still spray as little as possible.

You're welcome, Kitty. Why couldn't you use horticultural oil as the dormant spray? It suffocates insects and diseases without being "pesticidal".

Be wary of using horticultural oil in Florida. Our sun is sometimes too intense and it can cause your plants to literally fry in the sun. I would not spray any kind of oil on my plants here in South Florida, but you may be further north. Just a warning from an experienced gardener.

I think Kitty is in Sunset zone 23 California SoFL Rose...

Oils
of any kind are only safe in much of Central to Southern California in "winter"
when the sun is low; there is increased moisture in the air and the temps are
"low", compared to the "warmer" months. When I worked in Pacific Palisades,
right on the ocean, customers who lived in the "perma fog" could get away with
using Ultra Fine (water soluble, paraffinic oil) much of the year, except for
approximately August through early November, when it was really "hot" there. I
could only get away using it in the San Fernando and Santa Clarita Valleys many
Novembers through Februarys. Even then, it was possible to have foliage fry
because of the aridity and intensity of the sun during hotter weather events.
It's much the same issue you see with "sun azaleas". Right on the water, the sun
is sufficiently diffused by the fogs and damper air; the humidity is high enough
and the temps low enough for "sun azaleas" to actually be grown IN the sun, as
they are elsewhere they flourish. Go up a few hundred feet in elevation or move
a few miles inland and they fry as do most other "shade
plants". As long as the sun is sufficiently reduced, the humidity sufficiently high and temps sufficiently cool, oils can be quite effective.

Thanks kittymoonbeam. Maybe I'll check with Gary also. Tom Carruth is giving a talk at the Huntington Jan 14th--chili thrips might be a hot topic.

From what I've read about the bug, I doubt spinosad alone can effectively control a full force CT invasion. Spinosad combined with imidacloprid soil drench should be much more effective. If one avoids drenching the roses with pollen which attracts bees that would not make it too bad with regards to wildlife. Avoid imidacloprid spraying since that kills a lot of beneficials and is not effective against CT during their in the ground stage. No personal experience though.

There's also a new spinosyn based insecticidal active ingedient on the market called spinetoram (brand name 'Radiant'). It is, supposedly, similarly 'benign' but more effective and longer lasting than spinosad. Should be pretty expensive though as it is quite new and I doubt it is yet licensed for garden use.

Radiant SC label

We have chili thrips here in Hawaii ... Monterey Garden Insect Spray has a low percentage of Spinosad and the more expensive and higher concentration Conserve is also available. Capt Jack's Deadbug also has low percentage of Spinosad.

The roses at my workplace I've sprayed with the Monterey but I have to be consistent with it otherwise they get infested very easily.

At home, I had one bad infestation so used Conserve twice in that period to kill existing and then couple weeks later, kill newly hatched babies. It works well but am iffy about collateral damage because generally after application of Conserve there's leaf weakness I think? Other more experienced rose people haven't had my issue with that though.

If I get severely infested with Chili thrips again I'll probably switch back to Monterey to test out my theory that Conserve's recommended dosage is probably too much.

Still have bees that bother me and butterflies too.

We get them really bad around here in late summer. I bought an expensive bottle of conserve three years ago and it's only down by a quarter bottle, so that's been worth it to me. I haven't used regular pesticides for anything during that time because I wanted to maintain a nice ecosystem in my garden. Spinosad on its own hasn't made any obvious difference to that. I've got bees, butterflies, ladybugs, dragonflies, lizards, birds, squirrels, frogs like crazy and about two million mosquitoes - urg. I'm really happy with it. Mind you, I am a very laid back gardener. In the spring come the aphids, early summer bring the June bugs (beetle), grasshoppers do their thing as do regular flower thrips. I ignore them and the issues sort themselves out. Except for thrips, who coat each flower in the hundreds and ruin at least one flush. That is annoying, but nothing can be done. I'm not going to run around spraying every flower or add poison to the soil. Doesn't work for these numbers anyway. BTDT. Best to disbud when it gets crazy, usually the second flush.

Obviously none of that pertains to chilli thrips who are another beast entirely. I first had them in 2010, a minor epidemic, but didn't know what they were. In 2011, boy I learned quick because they went on a rampage that lasted for months. I had not recognized the early damage, so the numbers were able to swell and absolutely decimate my garden. I lost several plants that year, killed by CT. It happens so fast. Having battled these monsters several years running, I can spot them on peoples roses as I drive past their house. I spray the second I see the first little signs of damage and it knocks them down. They were determined this year and I sprayed three or four times, more than usual, but I had no big pruning to do, and no big epidemic.

Chili thrips are the absolute worst. I never had them for years, and suddenly one year they found my roses (I think they hitched a ride from some roses I brought home from Tampa) and its been a battle with them ever since. This year i was able to keep them under control with having to spray only about 3-4 times in the dead of summer. Now they seem to have declined a bit, but I am seeing some damage on a small percentage of my roses. For me, nothing works as well as spinosad, but its very expensive. I buy the Monterrey insect spray and have had the best luck with that. Plus it seems to get rid of my mosquitoes some what too. Albeit only for a short amount of time.

I had CT attack 3 months ago and since I can't find Spinosad in my area, I use Imidacloprid. Sprayed every 3-4 days for the 1 st 14 days only. Sprayed the soil as well. Butterflies, humming birds, bees & other insects seem to be not infected as I notice more came to visit my garden after that. I do not know if it is just a coincidence or not, but I love their presence.

I had two more suggestions for horticultural oil as the dormant spray. It's been cool and moist lately and maybe rain for Christmas so it seems like a safe time to spray. I haven't used it before. Do I need a special sprayer and do I need to wash the sprayer out afterward to prevent clogging? It's been a while since I sprayed anything. My last sprayer was a cheapie that I had when I fought Bermuda grass long time ago. Now I need a better one if it's going to see regular use.

No, you don't need anything "special". You can either use a pump sprayer or a hose end type. There are several on the market. Prices for pump types vary mainly with size. If you haven't many roses, a gallon or one and a half gallon units should work just fine. For more plants, I'd go with a hose end type. You fill it with oil, set the desired concentration on the dial on top, turn on the water and blast away.

I'm thinking the hose end is going to be the easiest for the horticultural oil. Then I can be sure to reach everything including the fruit trees. Thanks again Kim. I hope this cool weather gives you plenty of successful burrito cuttings.

You're welcome, Kitty, thank you! I'm ready to start! The hose-end is the easiest way, though not quite as efficient a use of the product, but it makes short work of a large job and it can work. I have usually used the upward spraying setting so I get as much of the foliage under sides, then twist it around to spray downward and hit the tops. It works! Good luck!

If you use a hose end sprayer, I recommend the use of a back flow preventer also.

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&authuser=0&gws_rd=ssl#newwindow=1&hl=en&authuser=0&q=backflow+preventer+valve