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greasetrap_gw

Katalox

10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago

My water is slightly acidic and has a lot of iron & manganese. A 2012 lab report shows a PH of 6.7, 9.09 mg/L of iron and 0.50 mg/L of manganese. A salesman from the pump company was out last week. He confirmed the PH figure, and said I have 10 grains of iron, of which 3 grains is dissolved (so I assume 7 grains is particulate).

Right now I have a 13"x54" calcite filter, followed by a 16 gpm cartridge filter and then a 10"x54" 48,000 grain water softener. Further down the line, there's an old cartridge filter, in which I've put a 10gpm carbon filter. The carbon filter isn't absolutely necessary, but the water tastes a bit better with it, and it also removes a rotten egg odor that we sometimes get in the water as well.

Overall, the filtering system works well, but I understand (from some posts I made last spring) that I'm relying too much on the softener for iron removal, which can cause premature resin failure. Other than that, it would be nice to get a bit more water flow in the house (I have a 15 gpm pump, but get maybe 6-7 gpm in the house). I understand that the calcite filter is probably the culprit here. Finally, there are occasional problems with metallic water getting into the lines when water gets used late at night when one of the filters is backwashing (flushing a toilet, icemaker, daughter gets a vomiting bug, etc.). So it would also be nice to put in a system which would prevent this from happening.

In any event, the current system needs some repairs (brine tank leaking, calcite bleeding into the cartridge filter), so I thought it would be a good time to make some other changes as well. A salesman from the filtration company came out last week, and he noted that the cartridge filters look remarkably clean given the amount of iron in the water. So he thinks the calcite & softener are doing a very good job (although the calcite needs to be rebedded and have the d-ring replaced likely due to clogging with iron).

The salesman's recommendation was to convert the softener to a twin tank design, so metallic water doesn't bleed through late at night. This didn't make much sense to me, as I would still be putting a lot of stress on the softener resin. Instead, I argued that a separate iron filter would make a lot more sense. First it would reduce the load on the softener resin, and, as long as no two filters were backwashing at the same time, metallic water wouldn't be able to get through as well.

After a bit of discussion, he agreed with this approach. I asked about Filox, but they don't carry it. Their 2 most popular iron media are Birm and Katalox. He recommended Katalox, but said to be prepared for the fact that there's a break-in period for the Katalox, during which the PH will be significantly elevated (to around 10.5). He said there's no significant health risk with this, but the water might feel slippery and have an off taste. After that, he said the Katalox would raise the PH a bit for several months and then stop affecting the PH completely. He also said that the Katalox would get rid of the hydrogen sulfide, which is causing the rotten egg odor.

The sales rep sent me a proposal today to install a 13"x54" Katalox filter with a Fleck 2510 controller. The filter order would be Katalox (one outside spigot plumbed in after this)-calcite-cartridge-softener. I could keep the downstream carbon filter if necessary, or bypass it if it doesn't do much good. Overall, there's room for 4 tanks, so I could put a second calcite filter in parallel to the first, but I would need to scrap the first cartridge filter.

So my principal questions are whether Katalox is a good substitute for Filox, and whether this filtration setup makes sense. Aside from this, I also have a few other questions:

- Is the water from the Katalox filter safe to drink/shower in during the break-in period?

- Is it true that the Katalox initially raises the PH, but then stops affecting it? If it permanently raises the PH, then maybe we won't need the calcite or softener at all (hardness of the raw water is 52 mg/L)?

- The first cartridge filter is currently useful in that it stops any calcite that bleeds out of the filter and alerts me to the fact that there's a problem. If I were to replace this with a second calcite filter (to improve water flow), what would happen if a d-ring failed again and started to bleed calcite into the softener?

- Although the softened water tastes fine as is, it might be nice to have a source of non-softened water for drinking, watering plants, etc. Unfortunately though, there's no good location to put a RO unit, and I'm also loathe to have a hole drilled through our new granite countertops (I should have thought about this before we had the kitchen renovated). In lieu of an RO unit, I was thinking it might make sense to replumb one of the kitchen sinks with a line coming in from a spot right before the softener. Does this make sense?

Thanks for your help.

Comments (5)

  • 10 years ago

    I've only sold 2 Katalox system at a customers request (I quoted a chlorination system). He called me back 6 months later because the sulfur smell returned on one and he decided to change the media on the other. He told me it turned as hard as cement. Needless to say, I'm not pleased with Katalox. The other thing that jumped out at me was the fact that they are recommending that the Katalox goes before the pH neutralier. The whole purpose of raising the pH is to be able to remove the iron effectively. Iron at a low pH is harder to remove. At 6.7, the pH is not that low. I would suggest a chlorinator followed by a automatic backwashing carbon filter then the softener.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Thanks biermech. I had actually inquired about a chlorinator and soda ash injector followed by a carbon filter before the system was installed 3 years ago. I liked this idea because my water is naturally soft and I've never been crazy about softened water. Just out of curiosity, how does the cost of a chlorinator & carbon, compare to the cost of Katalox?

    The salesman said that he does normally put the neutralizer before the iron removal media. The issue in my case is that the d-tube in my neutralizer failed after just 3 years, and it's bleeding calcite into the next filter. The most likely cause of this is that the tube is jammed partially open with some iron or other impurities from the water. As Katalox supposedly works down to a PH of 5.7 and filters to 3 microns, we thought it made sense to put the Katalox first to avoid another $500 d-tube repair.

    I'd certainly like to hear your thoughts on this though. Aside from this, do you have any thoughts on Filox or Birm?

  • 10 years ago

    I use Birm a lot here in Fla. I have had very good success with it. You can not have sulfur if you use Birm. With a chlorination system, it will raise the pH slightly. IMO, your's is not low enough to need a neutralizer. Others may disagree though.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm retired Plumber, My well water is 11 PPM Iron, H Sulfide, 15 GR Hardness, and Tannans! PH is 6.7-6.8. I installed an injection system using what I prefer to call a SAFER Peroxide rather than Chlorine,Stenner makes the best most reliable injection pump! then a catalytic carbon backwash unit, followed by a softener(metered) with tannan media on top of the resin bed! It kicks ass! 1PPM peroxide ELIMINATES the Iron , HS odor, I set one Cube softener, with 15 LB of tannan media, on 15 lb salt and metered at 700 Gallons between regen! YES you can get the bad stuff in system(house) using water in middle of the night! Set your units when you know you're least likely to use it over night! Go Pee, don't flush till morning! If you're a day sleeper fool the units clock to regen when sleeping!Peroxide is a little more money but so effective & Safe(healthy), just be sure your unit is set at 1PPM injection!Don't buy peroxide on internet sites, most are ripping you off! My supplier sells 7% peroxide in 2.5 gallon jugs for $16 each, not $-30-40 as do internet sites! 2 gallons every 3-4 weeks with three in house with whirlpool tub & 16 Gallon per wash front load washer!I had a 2 cube Filox/air injection system at first, it didn't get the job done!BTW, make sure your units are sized properly so you get the best flow rate! HAPPY WATER WORLD

  • 9 years ago

    Thanks for that information Bill. I hadn't thought about Peroxide, but it makes sense. I had the Katalox filter installed about the time of my original post (Dec 15). Initially it worked great, but then I noticed that iron was bleeding through when someone flushed at night (which shouldn't happen if either the Katalox or softener aren't backwashing at the same time). It turns out that a valve in the Katalox softener had become clogged with iron and it wasn't backwashing forcefully enough.

    That problem is now fixed, but now there's still 2PPM of iron (1 PPM ferrous & 1 PPM ferric) not being picked up by the Katalox & calcite filters. The softener can easily take this out, but I'm not happy that everything isn't being removed by the Katalox. The repair guy said that he thinks the Katalox is saturated with iron and that maybe the media should be replaced. That's tough for me to accept, when the salesman said it should last 10 years. I also don't understand why the calcite isn't filtering out any remaining particulate iron. Would it make sense to install a cartridge filter before the Katalox to remove as much particulate iron as possible and allow the Katalox to work on just the dissolved iron?

    Are you doing anything to treat your low PH? I can see moving to an injector system for the iron removal, but I've been told that calcite is a better way to go for PH. Of course that makes the water hard, which means I need to add a softener as well.

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