Interesting read, Rick. Thanks for posting. I hadn't found any yet, but I've used the oil dry.

I read that about 1 1/2 years ago. Reading it this time though, I notice that he's got a link at the end of the article to an update.

http://crataegus.com/2016/01/11/further-thoughts-on-turface/

He doesn't really explain his dislike for the product, just simply states-"it produces some of the most anaemic, thready root systems..." I also believe he's talking about growing in 100% Turface.

(He either need's to learn how to spell, or enable his Spellcheck.)

Rob

I don't use any Turface that passes through a 2mm screen, and that seems fine. I was at a nursery today, and having this article in mind I bought some Pumice (I've never used it before). I do like crushed lava rock (Scoria) though.

Rob

As I build my soil for this new hobby I have read so much good and bad on all soil mixes. I want to use a Gritty mix but pumice is cheaper here in Ca. but it sounds like it comes in different sizes. Only one place in 60 miles sells turface.

decisions, decisions! What is the smallest granules you use?

As far as Turface goes, I don't use anything that will pass through a 2mm screen. Ideal would be in the range of .109"=2.76mm - .156"=3.96mm.

I have to travel a ways too; to get my Turface. That's why last time I doubled up.

Rob

1/16" to 1/8" That seems small. but ok, off to find a some screen Thanks

Marica, The Horticulture Pumice is what I use in replacement of the Turface, as it became to costly to buy and have to ship it

The Pumice (Quincan Gravel, there) is what most of the Australian growers use.

It has similar properties to Turface, but keeping any fines is still important.

I bought a bowl/oval shaped sieve at a kitchen store and it has the same size screen. Works great for myself.

Rick

Thanks. I will have to buy one don't want to use my kitchen ones,

It is just odd I was thinking bigger the better drainage. Oh well!

I am just full of reading too many options and choices. I will just have to try things

Marica - Have you read this thread?

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/2842847/container-soils-water-movement-and-retention-xxii?n=427

If you haven't, then definitely read it. If you have, then read it again. I doubt anybody who reads it once; comes away with a full understanding, and that's the key. Understanding the concept behind the science. Learning how cohesion, adhesion, porosity, and aeration all work to reduce perched water, and create a more beneficial environment for the roots.

"The Gritty Mix" is not a written in stone recipe, it's a basic starting point that you can build upon and modify; when you come to an understanding of the information contained in that thread. I've read the entire thing 3-4 times, and have returned to it as a reference countless times. (I found it purely by chance; when searching for a Bonsai mix.)

Here's a pic of the sieve I use.

Rob

I missed that one and I have only read it once :-)

I really disagree with the article, it's just's one guys dislike for the product without any data, just a vague reference to one maybe more than one anecdotal experiences. It alsos false to the extent it says turface is hydrophobic.

Turace is one of the few products that goes into soil mixes which is horticultural by design. It's more stable than the "volcanic" soil mixes he seems to prefer some of which are not igneous in formation.

Ive never noticed the problem he describes with turface, and I've used it for like 10 years. He is just part of a small group of bonsai people who really lIke akadama, which is japanese for expensive, lightly baked, clay pellets. It degrades pretty quickly, not like turface or many other superior products which are calcined to vitrification and basically permanent, the material itself is basically impermeable to water , but because of its texture it holds water, oxygen, and nutrients.

I don't even screen turface, just rinse it well to wash off dust. But admittedly I never use just turface.

I'm trying to make a big batch of the gritty mix. I'm new to this forum. I found a place that sells Turface All Sports. Is that the Turface I am to use for cacti?

Yes remember to rinse it .

Thank you. I've found two of the three ingredients now. Yeah!!!

Phyllis where are you located? Everybody seems to do some adjustment to the Gritty mix to fit their area and placement. I had to add fine coir to it because I live in a dry area with some wind.

Phyllis - Most people use Turface MVP. I don't know if there's a size difference, but here's a thread I just found about "All Sport". http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/1418521/my-experience-with-turface-all-sport

If you can get the attention of "tapla" (Al), he will know.

Rob

There is a crap shoot element to getting Turface MVP too. Some people say they never have to sift and others complain that the bulk of what they get is dust. I had to sift. I hate sifting. The dust is such that you really need to wear a mask. So about a quarter of the way through, I ended up just getting crushed pumice from Amazon because I hate sifting.

Having said this, turface is fantastic for storing bulbs! And I used them for seed germination as well as rooting haworthias and what-not. At some point I even used it as top-dressing in small pots because it changes color when wet and dries rather slowly, making it a good indicator for when to water.

So if you are having a really hard time getting turface, pumice is a great substitute, especially if you are somewhere near California where there is a giant quarry.

Halocline said something very important: the gritty mix formula is not written in stone. Think of it more like a base mix. For example, after trying the 1:1:1 and the 5:1:1 mix for one season each, I concluded that caudices grow faster with about 25 percent soil mixed in. BUT do this with an important adjustment: drill more holes in your pots. I mean this. Lots of holes. For example, I drill about 4 additional 1-inch holes in the typical 8-inch pot that I use. These additional drainage is necessary because adding soil to this mix, in effect, will restore the perched water that the formula is trying to reduce by having uniformly large particles.

In case you're wondering why I added soil to this formula, it's because I do not have the kind of setup where I can reuse the water runoff. The waste makes me cringe. And I don't like watering that often.

Pagan

Marica, I live in Louisville, Kentucky. I just purchased a green house and am waiting to get it put up so this winter I don't have to bring in all of my cacti and succulents. Many are in need of re-potting so when I found this awesome website I knew that a lot of my problems I am having with mealybugs stem from my soil; some probably from being taken into a house as well. I want to repot in good soil this summer so they have time to settle before the winter months come again. By the way this year is flying by winter will be upon us before I know it.

Rob, I did get in touch with Al (Tapla) and he was kind enough to answer so many of my questions. I appreciate everyone on here who has replied. I have lost so many of my cactus over the years it breaks my heart. I have to send off for many of the ones I want since we get the same type of cacti at Lowe's or Home Depot every year. I don't think many have a fighting chance of living since they are sent bare root and are put in commercial type soil. At least that's what I'm thinking. I could be totally off base.

Sending bare root is for a couple of reasons. The plants don't mind the drying time. some like adeniums need it. Most vendors insure their plants. Green house sounds fun. post pics.

When it comes to making the "Gritty Mix" (or any variation thereof), sifting is integral.

I also recommend; when working with any dry materials like these, to ALWAYS WEAR A DUST MASK. A good screening/sifting tip - Place a fan behind you, so the dust is being blown away from you.

Rob

Thank you for your help. I have lots of questions and I swear I'm not stupid but I'm not getting the answers I need from the nurseries here to help me with the "bark" purchase.

I'm assuming since I am making the soil for cacti I need the gritty mix and not the 5:1:1. So I have found the Turface and the Gran-I-Grit. I found this one company that has Pine Soil Conditioner - fine in texture, acts as nutrient reservoir for plants; moderates soil temp and enhances drainage and improves oxygen levels or Pine Bark Mulch has a chipped smooth texture with approx. chip size of 3/8 - 3/4". According to Tapla (Al) "Dust to 3/8 is best for the 5:1:1 mix and 1/8-1/4 is best for the gritty mix, though 1/8-3/8 works well too if using pine bark (for gritty). Fir bark for gritty should be 1/8-1/4"

My question is "Is this what I am suppose to buy"? The Nursery could not tell me for certain. If this is not please let me know and I'll continue my search.

Also, another question concerning the 1:1:1 gritty mix. Do I use one gallon bucket Turface, one gallon bucket Gran-I-Grit and one gallon bucket Bark. Mix it up and sift or sift each first and then mix. I'm going to buy these in 50lb bags (except the bark witch comes in cubit feet).

Rob, thank you for the mask and fan idea. I didn't even think of that.

With the exception of jungle cacti or epiphyllum, most cacti do not even need organic material such as tree barks will add to this mix. You can do away with it and just use turface or pumice. I don't even bother with crushed granite because it's not easy to find where I am.

"Nutrient reservoir" only means the particles are able to absorb water with fertilizer mixed in. Turface does that already. The bark itself is not usable as a nutrient source since it takes upwards of 3 years for it to break down. It is added only to increase the moisture-holding capacity of the substrate.

It is easier to sift each ingredients before mixing them together. If I really want tree bark mixed in (for such plants as P. afra and my one pot of jade), I use Repti-Bark which is sold in pet stores. The sizes are the most uniform I have found so far and rarely needs sifting. It is a bit pricey perhaps but I rarely use tree bark so for me, it pays for itself in time and bother in the rare times I need it.

Hope this helps.

Pagan

Yes it does, thank you Pagan. One other question if you don't mind, I can get both turface and the crushed granite easily within a 10 mile radius of my home so the question is, do I just use turface only or do I mix it with some type of soil

It really depends on what you are planting in it. To give you a rough idea, here is what I do in Zone 7. It is important to note that these are rough indicators, based entirely on the way I water. I can not say weekly because it is too erratic and season-dependent. Also note that in this zone, we get maybe about six weeks of real heat (meaning, temperatures over 32C) so the need to increase watering is really not that significant. That short period of truly arid conditions just kind of takes these succulents out for a practice spin. If it is hotter for longer periods of time where you are, these proportions will require you to water more often.

Also, you will notice a dearth of organic material in my substrate. This is because I prefer to regulate fertilization.

Pure pumice: all my haworthias, gasterias, euphorbias, pachypodiums, othonas

Pumice and crushed granite: extreme xerophytes like sarcocaulons, pelargoniums, mammilarias, neochilenias, and one Euphorbia globosa

Pumice with 20 percent soil: adromischus, schizobasis, sedum, echevaria.

5:1:1: O. decaryii, P. afra, C. ovata, hoya, sedum, dorstenias.

1:1:1 with some soil, around a 10th just to add some fines: arabicums and obesums more than a year old.

Half soil, half perlite: arabicum and obesum seedlings.

That's it, off the top of my head. I have mesembs but that is worth six thousand separate threads and in the end nothing will work lol The buggers are a PIA.

Pagan

Thanks Pagan, I'm in zone 5. I have a lot of different euphorbias so if sticking them in pure pumice works, I'll be happy as a lark. I have mammilarias, notocactus, discocactus, melocactus, copuapoa, my favorite - gymnocalycium, a couple of opuntia (more in the euphorbia line but not the pad type), and several crested cacti. I'm wanting to order some Rebutias because of their large flowers. Do you think the pumice and crushed granite only, would work on the latter?

You mean rebutias? I don't have any of those--my experience with cacti is limited to the two that I have. I would not dare hazard a guess so I think other more experienced folks here will have to chime in.

P

http://www.gardenweb.com/gardenweb/query/rebutias

Phyllis - ReptiBark is good stuff if you don't mind the price. It's Fir Bark, which is a corky type bark as opposed to Pine, which has a scale like appearance. I found my Pine Bark at a "Bulk" Sand & Gravel Co.

For cacti/succulent mix; some alternate materials could be - crushed red/black lava rock (Scoria), Pumice, Haydite (expanded shale), coarse Perlite.

A couple good things about using bark is; it never hurts to have some organic material, plus using as much as 30%, it's a cheaper way to fill your the soil mix.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/1419073/succulent-soil-mix

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/1394635/best-soil-for-sedum

Rob

Thanks Rob. I called my local sand and gravel company and they have hardwood mulch. He stated it was not pine. Is that the same stuff as Pine Bark? I guess that is what I'm having a problem understanding. He said there is dye in it because it comes in different colors.

I found Louisville Mulch Company and they sell Pine Bark mulch, nuggets, etc. They said is pine bark with no additives. So I have found all three major ingredients now for my gritty mix. That was a search and a half. Now to pick up my supplies and make my mix. I'm am so excited.