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At my wit's end here...

10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago

This post will mostly consist of pictures, since I believe those will be the most telling. I'm trying to grow hot peppers and cucumbers from seed, and I have no problem getting them germinated. Humidity dome, heating mat, then as soon as they sprout, I remove the mat and the dome. However, the seedlings then, grow incredibly slowly, have various colors of spots on their leaves, and just look sickly overall. My general parameters are as follows:

Enclosure: 4'x4' grow tent

Light: 800 W LED hanging fixture, on 16 hours a day. Just moved it closer to the seedlings today after seeing that many of my seedlings exhibit symptoms of light deficiency.

Temperature: Between 65 and 75 degrees F

Soil: Either 5:1:1 or Gritty Mix, the former with garden lime added and brought to a pH of nearly 6.5, and the latter with gypsum added.

Water: Hadn't watered for a while until yesterday (that's why everything looks soaked), and then watered with tap water with pH adjusted to 6.5

Air: I regularly open the doors to the grow tent to bring in fresh air

Fertilizer: Applied it weakly some weeks ago, thought the seedlings showed signs of nutrient burn, so I stopped

Until yesterday, I had been trying to avoid the newbie mistake of overwatering, by essentially not watering at all. I decided yesterday that the soil was far too dry, and used to soaking method to water everything pictured. I realize that doesn't help diagnose the situation as some of the plants were probably suffering from underwatering. Additionally, all of the seedlings were started in peat pots, which I know people have mixed feelings about. After reading about the mixed experiences people have with them, I decided to refrain from using them in the future. For the 5:1:1, I did not use composted bark, but I know that many others on this forum do the same and don't have issues. I would really appreciate any input anyone can give. Thanks!

Edit: Actually I have so many pictures uploaded that I'll just link to them: https://goo.gl/photos/e1EUJFbnxQ9gJtG7A

Comments (17)

  • 10 years ago

    It looks like it could be multiple issues. I saw some necrotic spots from fungus and there are different nutrient deficiencies which could be from overwatering or just a lack of nutrients.

  • 10 years ago

    to me the first set of leaves are suppose to turn yellow and dry up, its the second set and there after that grow into the "real" plant. when i start from seeds i don't feed them any plant food because the seed provides enough food until the plant grows at least the third set of leaves. parsley /cilantro , those longer leaves are suppose to dry up ,when I grow cilantro or flat leaf parsley no plant food until more leaves and I feed with weak fish emulsion , as for watering I keep it only slightly damp more like a squeezed out towel. this is just my own experience growing from seeds , all by trial and error, I would post pictures but I don't know how

  • 10 years ago

    Should I water with diluted hydrogen peroxide? Will that get rid of the fungus? Or should I repot into sterilized gritty mix? Anything else I should be doing? Thanks to you both for your advice!

  • 10 years ago

    i would use just water , i have filter on my faucet , air circulation is important a small fan to move air really helps low speed, many of us tend to overwater but plants don't take up much water until it has more roots , so slightly damp is fine not wet

  • 10 years ago

    where are you located? I am in San Francisco so I am an urban gardener in fog

  • 10 years ago

    I'm in Benicia, actually, so fairly close to you.

  • 10 years ago

    I just put a rotating fan in there, so that should provide a good bit of circulation.

  • 10 years ago

    Things still don't seem to be improving. Any further suggestions? Repot? Remove plants from peat pellets?

  • 10 years ago

    Might want to leave seedlings on the heatmat if your ambient is below 20degC.

    Been germinating a host of chillis & some cukes - this yr first time trying heat with a control batch planted same time without heat... the heated seedlings do grow faster & earlier. The seeds outside didn't sprout as fast.

    Then again when the heated jiffys were planted out, they kinda froze stunned for some weeks before getting growing again... might've been summer warming up that time too. Today (mid summer) there's not too much difference between their sizes.

  • 10 years ago

    btw I used Jiffy pellets as well as Jiffy coir pots filled with moist peatmoss.

    Once the seeds sprouted there's no safe way to extract seedlings from the peat without damaging the fine root system... the ones I tried, most didn't survive.

    Some of the chilli pellets didn't show much life first few weeks; after their sprouted colleagues got planted out I tossed the barren pellets into a dark corner where they dried out. But a few weeks later when I re wetted them... some sprouted some more :) but haven't found out which chilli they're from.

  • 10 years ago

    I started hundreds of plants from seeds over winter. For many, many years in New York. Vegetables and flowers.

    I always used either Miracle Gro or some other fine potting mix. With certain seedlings I used bagged mix mixed with perlite. Very fine mix in six or eight pack seed trays. I also used lights and window light.

    Now I live in Florida, I start seeds the same way except outdoors. I do not cover them in Florida. They don't require the humidity in Florida which they did in NY.

    I always started the seeds in trays covered with saran wrap. Once I saw them sprout I slowly uncovered the trays. Slowly to acclimate them to drier conditions indoors. Once completely unwrapped, they went under lights. They grew well, many were flowering by April which was when they started going outside.

    Your mix might be too dry for seedlings. That would be my guess. The strong lights, heat from the lamps and room temps might be drying out the mix too fast.

    Try sprinkling some fine mix over the 511 and see what happens.

    I never fertilized until the second set of leaves and I saw vigorous growth.

    Jane

  • 10 years ago

    Yes your seedlings look terrible! I'm not sure what the problem is? One guess would be that your water is killing them. Are you using tap water? Do you have a water softener hooked up? Try using store bought water for now. It looks like damage from salts, chlorine, or fluoride. I myself use rainwater. i saved up about 500 gallons from the fall for use over winter.


    Or it is a pH issue. Also don't use peat moss use seed starting mix, The lime you are using if Dolomite Lime, it takes 6 months to work if Hydrated Lime, you're probably burning them. Use a starter mix already balanced. Miracle grow works fine! You may get some fungus gnats though.

    Yes use 2 tbsp of hydrogen peroxide per gallon. It will give oxygen to roots, kill fungi, and gnats too,

    Be careful with fertilizer too, dilute it down a lot!

    Also avoid plastic containers unless you are an experienced grower. Try the pots made of peat. They dry out very well. A self watering mat would be good too!

    Anyway things you can try! Good luck!


    My pepper seedlings from last year (I have not started any yet).

  • 10 years ago

    Here's are some updated photos. I've put things in different mixes, fertilized more heavily, and I think I'm too involved to notice differences. So if you could give me your opinions on what I should do next, I'd greatly appreciate it.

    Pictures

  • 10 years ago

    If it helps any, I had a DampRid tub in the grow tent in an effort to reduce moisture and susceptibility to fungi. I removed it yesterday as I thought it might be too dry in there now.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I'm relatively new here and also to doing my own seedlings. After doing lots of reading and not retaining much I am having great success with them, even growing on to adult plants. To start with I make my own compost so I am also making my own seed mix. fine vermiculite, strained peat moss and strained compost..equal parts, mix it well and wet it well by hand. I save yogurt cups, placing a teflon piece at the bottom to hold back the mixture. ( these cups and teflon can be used over and over after cleaning..) I made up a batch of lights, just daylight lamps and keep them as close to my plants without touching them, I water from the bottom and when true leaves appear I'll give a small amount of 10 % solution of fish emulsion. I'll keep raising my lights as they grow, just keeping lights at the tip of the plant. Using a 4 tier rack from Lowes, keeping it wrapped somewhat, using a crock pot filled with water gives me heat & humidity comparable to greenhouse settings. I do use a bio dome, however in this rack I feel it isn't needed.



  • 10 years ago

    I agree with the post regarding more bottom heat. Peppers are real heat lovers, I start my seeds at 85 degrees, lover to 75 after germination. Also good light and air circulation.

  • 10 years ago

    Hi Ethan,

    I've personally observed leaves of plants grown in fresh bark mixes being more yellow, thin, and perhaps upturned, compared to peat-based mixes. The root systems are thick and fibrous, but the foliage isn't as dark or lush. On my peppers, production wasn't impacted in the long-term (5-1-1 may have been a bit higher), but I now prefer to grow leafy herbs in finer mixes. My own watering habits play a part in that, no doubt!

    Yours look like they'll be fine once they get some roots going and some real sunshine on them. Last week was beautiful, and spring's right around the corner. Just try not to love them to death in the meantime. ;-)


    Some thoughts:

    -Peat pots allow soil to dry out very quickly. I don't like this trait for seedlings, and it's unnecessary w/ the 5-1-1. I try to only water seedlings by misting from above (daily, as needed), so over-watering isn't a problem. It is a real pain in the you-know-what though!

    -The water out here should be fine for your plants, unless you're off the grid or have unusual plumbing.

    -I suspect the importance of soil temperature is underestimated, especially this time of year. Seeds need it to germinate, and while seedlings need it less, they seem to thrive more often with it. I tend to use clear pots in spots that get morning sun to warm the soil. Southern exposure works too, but be careful not to burn them.

    -Ditto for air circulation. The fan should be helping.

    -I prefer to start seedlings in a finer mix that will support a more humid (and therefore more temperature-controlled) environment. I've had good luck with ProMix, both BX and HP. It's $25 for 2.2 cu ft (compressed) at HD or Lowes, or you should be able to get it for ~$42 out the door at a local hydro store. It can also be used as a peat/perlite component in custom bark-based mixes. If you find yourself headed east on 80, let me know, I'll be happy to share a bucket with you if you'd like to try it out.


    Good luck this season!