Its unfortunate but the contract clause “All finishing materials must be pre-approved by the customers before any installation” is vague because the term "finishing materials" is not defined nor is it the important issue and installation was mentioned instead of ordering or purchasing. Did he write that clause? Was there no other specification or drawing of the door design? If the original doors were set back you might have a case against him but the absence of any description of the doors or how they would be installed could be a problem.

The language was mine. This is my first remodel, and I thought that I was being careful in wording this (goes to show you).

The original doors, which are still in place, are inset into the adobe frame, so there is no protrusion and no lip. So they are set back with frames that are barely visible. They are also dark bronze metal. He ordered white vinyl with a 3” lip, so there is a drastic change in style/color/design.

Speaking to a lawyer who says we have a strong case, but I am hoping to avoid going that route... don’t want to have such a confrontation.

It's not a matter of, say, splitting the cost IF they were allowed. I certainly wouldn't pay for them.

" ... but the absence of any description of the doors or how they would be installed could be a problem."

This thread is really similar to a recent one about the contractor ordering the wrong style windows. Unfortunately, I don't think there was a resolution on that thread.

Was there any discussion at all about the doors? It's pretty unbelievable that a contractor would order doors (or windows) without discussing with the homeowner what they wanted. I mean, there are a lot of different doors out there, styles as well as manufacturers, so that's a pretty big assumption on his part if he ordered doors without any discussion first. Since he took it upon himself to order the doors that HE wanted, why does he think YOU should eat the cost? How did he arrive at his price/quote without a discussion of the materials you planned to use?

@jellytoast

This contractor has been making big decisions from the beginning, which has meant several clashes between us. For example, he was supposed to replace the 8’ closet doors in the second and third bedrooms, but instead of replacing them he took out the old ones, dropped the top of the closet frame to 6’ and tried to get a way with it. We had to argue to get him to put it back the way it was...

We actually had no discussion about the doors, at all. He merely informed us (in person) that he had ordered the replacement doors and that they would be there on XX day. The first time we saw the make/model/look was when we saw them in the garage... As far as price goes, we agreed to have the doors replaced, and he gave us an additional amount that would be added to his first estimate. This came to $5,500 total for parts and labor, and this was added into the turn-key price that we have in the contract. So to respond to your point, he did indeed order the doors that HE wanted to order (I assume that it meant saving money, since we had a turn-key agreement and this seems to be what happened with the closet door reframing)

As a first time homeowner, we thought that the “must be pre-approved” language would be enough to ensure that he didn’t make any questionable moves...

Any thoughts?

The fact that the contractor used a different color could be considered a violation of the specification about pre approved finishing materials and the different position of the doors in the openings could be considered a failure to "replace" the original doors since that implies putting then in the same location. PVC instead of painted metal could also be considered a violation of the pre approved finishing requirement.

"Finishing materials" are usually described as "finish materials" but it should be close enough.

Will the HOA actually not allow the installation of these doors?

Perhaps the doors can be sold on Craigslist but that would be for him to do in order to lower his cost of correcting his mistake.

I suspect the appropriate doors will be more expensive than the ones he bought.

Your wording is not inadequate. Of course he is obviously in the wrong. Why he or anyone else would ever think you are responsible for the wrong doors being ordered is ridiculous. It is an unethical position.

That aside, anyone experienced in the biz or life knows that in a development like that there are HOA rules around needing to conform to the existing structure. Regardless whether there were rules in place or not, why would any professional do otherwise - moreless without approval! It's simply common sense and good workmanship. That is the work of a hack.

He has you sized up and figures he can take advantage of you.

@ JDS

Thank you for the critical eye. I know that my phrasing could have been better, but when I search for finishing materials I find numerous sources that include sliding doors, metal, paint color, design... I do hope that we are protected, as I would hate to have my first ever remodel end in such a terrible way... BTW, he texted us today to say that we could sell them on Craigslist, but we simply let him know that we would resolve the issue on Saturday when we see him. That is most likely going to be the moment when we have to tell him that we will pay for everything that he has done for us, except the $5500 that he added to the price to include the 3 doors.

@snookums

This contractor was actually recommended by a friend, for whom he did a good job (though it was work that wasn’t our taste, the friend was satisfied). I do believe though that he is really trying to cheapen the entire package and cut corners to save money, especially since we have a set contract price.

We are prepared to go to court, since everything that I have found in researching this seems to indicate that we would be in the right... though you never know.

I have to think that he knows we are not going to roll over on this one. He has really danced around the topic since we heard from the HOA (since it is a golf course they will not approve them under any circumstances), so I guess we are going to have to square off...

" ... tell him that we will pay for everything that he has done for us, except the $5500 that he added to the price to include the 3 doors."

That sounds completely fair and reasonable. In your position, I would not agree to pay for doors that a contractor ordered without my consent as to the brand, style, finish, etc. Regardless of whether or not your HOA approves his choice, it is HIS choice. The doors that you ultimately install in your home should be doors of your own choosing. It is ridiculous that his solution to HIS error in judgement is for YOU to sell the doors on Craigslist. Please let us know how this works out for you on Saturday!

HOA regulations generally carry the same legal weight as building codes. The contract stated certain restrictions like consulting you before buying/etc. It is sad he does not have the professionalism to abide by local/your requirements.

Court is looking like the only option. And no more payments should be made.

"Court is looking like the only option."

Not necessarily. Just because this contractor is trying to push his client into accepting responsibility for his error, that doesn't mean he is willing to go to court to do so.

Are all the rest of the renovations done?

If you only 'owe' him $5000 but the door part of the reno is $5500, does that mean that if you simply cut ties and part ways that you'd only be out $500?

Ideally you should get that $500 back, but if he's not willing to cough it up, I don't know if I'd personally be bothered to take him to court for that amount.

Then I'd get someone else to do the doors.

If you do part ways before the job is technically done, make sure you get a lien waiver from him so that he can't claim that you still owe him money.

Too late for you, for which I'm sorry, but this thread highlights the importance of specifying materials in detail in either the specifications or drawings. It's a lot of work, but results in more accurate bids and clean resolution of problems. If the specification says "install company A model ABC in lime green" and you get "company B model XYZ in harvest gold" there is typically little discussion needed of who owns the problem.

I've found that there are two kinds of contractors, those who look at my long specification documents spelling out every item and run screaming from the room and those who smile in relief. I find I work well with the latter sort.

This contractor has been making big decisions from the beginning, which has meant several clashes between us.

AND he hasn't learned his lesson yet. Perhaps eating the cost of the doors will do the trick.

That's probably all that will help to change these all too common situations - if they have to absorb the cost of not knowing what they're doing, instead of us.

three words were missing IMO "to match existing" would have covered it.

Aside from the proportional difference (I admit I don't understand the exact meaning of 3" lip) realize the doors can be painted. The bronze ones would have been some kind of painted finish.

Casey

Hi all,

Thanks for the additional comments. With regard to painting them, this is not an option as the screen frame and hardware are all white (and it is quite noticeable...also, you can paint the actual slider frame as it would simply chip away in no time). The lip is the small decorative part that extends outside of the adobe, covering the actual contact point of the sliding glass door frames and the structure.

You may be correct in saying that the language was not sufficient.

I imagine it is going to be a heated discussion tomorrow when we sit down to discuss this...

When you're driving down the street, you have an obligation to obey the speed limit whether it's posted or not. When you're a contractor, you have an obligation to check for everything that could arrest a job. If you're replacing sliders directly on the coast of Florida, the doors must have "turtle glass" which keeps the endangered turtles from mistaking your nighttime light pollution for moonlight leading them out to sea. You've got to know this stuff or it's red tag for you. And no payment. Eating sliders that aren't right is "tuition" and a cost of doing business.

"I admit I don't understand the exact meaning of 3" lip"

"The lip is the small decorative part that extends outside of the adobe, covering the actual contact point of the sliding glass door frames and the structure."

It sounds like the contractor ordered retrofit doors that would fit over the existing frames ... is that correct?

I very recently had a door company out to give me an estimate on an new sliding glass door. He went over the two options available ... retrofit vs. completely removing the old door as well as the frame, and what was involved in each option. The retrofit was the cheaper option ... cheaper for the cost of the door and much cheaper for the installation. The choice was mine. It sounds like you were expecting that your new doors would be "inset within the adobe frame and ... no lip" as you stated in your original post.

I see no reason for you to pay his tuition. That whole situation along with the insufficient language argument is ridiculous.

If the new doors can't be installed and are not allowed by HOA then how can the project be considered finished and turn key? Your wording could have been better but also by definition the product he is trying to deliver is not turn key.

So the lip is similar to a casing, but pre-attached or solidly affixed to the frame.

It still could be painted, there is spit-can Krylon and then there is real automotive finish. Screens could simply be ordered in the correct color. See, that saved you some$$.

Casey

The lip sounds like a PVC detail.

Hi all,

Thank you for all of the advice and comments. It really helped me figure out how to speak to the contractor. We resolved it on Saturday, after a long and heated battle. We agreed that the labor would be taken out of the Turn-Key price without question, and that we would split the cost of the doors. So of the $5,500 we were being charged originally, we ended up with approx. $2000. We were both on the verge of court, but since we needed this renovation completed we agreed to handle it this way.

At least we are sleeping at night again...

Words of advice: You can never be too detailed in your contract.

Thanks again for everything...

And what are you doing for the correct doors and who gets the incorrect doors to sell?

So very very wrong. Hack and a crook.

So is he going to sell the wrong doors on ebay/craigslist and split the money with you?!?

Or is he just going to pocket that and basically recoup all of the money that he spent on this screw up and you'll be the only one that got screwed?

Regarding the price you are splitting for the doors ... is that his price that he paid, or the price he was charging you for them? In any case, I'd insist on seeing the receipt.

Thank you for the update ... it's always nice to know how these things get resolved (or not).

Hi all,

It was the price of the doors that was split, not a marked up price. Neither one of us wanted the doors, since they are custom sized and will be a hard sell. Since we needed them out of the garage (as 3 doors take up a lot of room) he agreed to haul them to habitat for humanity for donation.

Our lawyer felt strongly that we would have won this in court, but to be honest we are exhausted from this contractor. In short, we needed this to be over and done with, and we finally got a night’s sleep on Saturday because of our decision (which was pretty much worth it considering the toll this has taken on our health).

He is doing finishing touches this week, and then he will be out of our lives for good...

Thanks again for all of the concern and advice.

More like Craigs List.

Do a search on craigslist to see if he's posted an ad.

Or maybe he'll just keep them and use them in one of his other projects and charge those clients full price for them.

Donated? Doubtful.

That tax deduction receipt from Habitat for Humanity would have helped to soften the blow, but I can certainly understand the "we needed this to be over and done with" statement. Thanks for sharing your experience.