I don't know if they have the real one, but your alternate source would be Rose Petals Nursery. They have all three forms -- single, double, and Temple -- as well as two OP seedlings of it raised by Malcolm Manners. You'll find the seedlings under Noisettes, and both of their names start with X.

:-)

~Christopher

I wonder how it compares to secret garden musk climber? Health wise and scent? I see that Burlington carries that. Does anyone grow both? I was wanting it for the scent anyway. Thanks for the information Christopher I will check it out!

I wonder how it compares to secret garden musk climber?

I've grown both, the species* itself had more presence. Be sure to give it enough room.

*Perhaps in actuality an ancient hybrid

I don't grow Secret Garden Musk Climber, but do have the single form of R. moschata from Rose Petals Nursery. Mine is still young (planted spring of 2014), and initially I didn't find it very fragrant. I'm not sure if it was the plant needing to mature some or a problem with my nose. At some point last summer the fragrance really kicked in for me, though. I now find it to be one of my most fragrant roses. It does blackspot here, but worth it for flower power and scent.

I never saw any disease on mine, whereas the plant sold in North America as 'Nastarana' does get black spot in my area.

Another clean one is what is being circulated as "Darlow's Enigma". Darlow was selling this as R. moschata 'Plena' until I flowered R. moschata and showed him a sample. After that his plant became "Darlow's Enigma". He got it from a woman in Oregon.

The "Enigma" has in recent years become in my area effectively a deciduous landscape shrub, growing without particular care on numerous properties - including ones where no other roses may be present at all.

The modern 'Nastarana' and Darlow's find are similar enough to have perhaps come from the same breeding program somewhere. The more apparent differences (as seen in my locale) are that the 'Nastarana' does not keep a permanent, elevated cold hardy top, is bluish in leaf and pink in bud, and gets black spot. The other is hardy, forms an arching, more or less self supporting top on many sites, is green in leaf and yellow in bud, and disease free.

Some here at one point had decided the correct identity of this plant was 'Cascadia' but when I looked that up I saw right off it was pink in bud, could therefore not be the Darlow plant just on that basis alone.

Scent of the single R. moschata and Secret Garden Musk Climber are similar -- strong, clove-rose. But otherwise the plants are not very similar. R. m. is a mannerly shrub here in Florida (it can climb in cooler climates), whereas SGMC is a "house-eating" climber. Also SGMC flowers are much larger. Both of them flower continuously for us.

So basically Secret Garden Musk is a smaller version of R. Moschata? No scent difference, just size? Making sure I have that right Embothrium. I have Darlow's Enigma which I will be moving, I think I might have it in to much shade, it just doesn't "wow" me. I got it from High country Roses a few years ago. To me it does not have a powerful fragrance. Thanks everyone for your thoughts and if you have some more on anything I said please be sure to share them! All the information I can get will be helpful.

Ohh thanks Malcolm! I thought SGMC was the smaller of the two. I might would want R. Moschata then. I sure need to think on it. Will SGMC climb into trees? Does it tolerate shade? Light or deep? Thanks for all the help and anymore ya'll can send my way.

We've only ever grown either (or any rose, for that matter), in full, all-day sun, so I can't comment on shade-tolerance.

We grow SGMC over an arbor in front of a covered gazebo, so it has no sun on one side, and complete afternoon sun on t'other. I think it prefers sun, on the whole -- but if I lived in a desert climate, I would give it afternoon shade.

It's a wonderful rose. I would say its blooms are larger than those of R. moschata.

My R. moschata gets some shade from a fence behind it and a red crepe myrtle in front of it (that I hope to send it climbing up one day), but has sun most of the day. It blooms almost nonstop throughout our season.

Thanks Jeri, Pat and Malcolm for all of your help. They both sound so wonderful. Now it's left up to me to choose..... What I'm thinking of doing is this. If Burlington has SGMC in stock, I'll get that one from her. I already have a order with her anyway. I have already sent out my check, but maybe it can still be added on. Rose Petal Nursery's shipping is to high for me, so if Burlington doesn't have it... I will talk to Roses Unlimited about their R. Moschata. If I order from RU I will be tempted to add a few more beauties though :) We are all slaves to our passions, are we not? :) Thanks for all the beautiful pictures! I really enjoyed them.

The single R moschata is said to be the most fragrant. I had to move it from its place near my house as it grew too big. Moving it set it back sharply for 3 or 4 years. It seems to be recovering now in its new, more spacious location. Unfortunately it is now out of my way and I don't get to enjoy it as I once did.

I'm sorry you don't get to enjoy your rose as much Rosefolly. I do wonder why it got set back by so many years. I guess it wouldn't take kindly to pruning it at your house for you to enjoy huh? Everyone has been so helpful with helping me. Thanks to everyone's comments I know know more of what to expect from her.

The fragrance of Sec. Synstylae roses comes from the petals and not the receptacle - more petals should result in more fragrance, when crossing with less- or non-fragrant roses is not involved. When ancient Romans had bath water at parties strewn with thousands of musk rose petals the surface developed a film of the fragrant oil coming off the petals.

Yes in R. moschata, almost all the scent comes from stamen filaments. I get almost no scent from detached petals.

Yes, I remembered it backwards: most roses produce their fragrance on the petals but musk roses give it off from the stamens. That is of course how so many fragrant, fully double roses of other types are possible.

Alana, How is your R. moschata from RU? Getting one from them soon.

I didn't get one yet. This was me wondering if there's was the true form. I'm getting it in a trade instead :) After talking with a friend I decided to do a trade because there's was the right form... I did order other roses from them in there sale though..:)

Thanks for letting me know. I ordered some $10 roses from RU, then added on one R Moschata. I hope it's the real thing. I have 2 R. Moschata right now aren't real, I am still trying to find out what they are at this moment. Trading is the best way. :-)

They were out of R Moschata when I ordered, but while there I picked up
R. bracteata and R.Laevigata (Pink Cherokee).

I saw they had pink Cherokee and thought about ordering it! Let me know how it does! I'm trying to root the white one now. I found one at a park in town. The first set didn't take, so I have another started.

I have a Rosa Moschata from Palatine which has not bloomed yet but the huge pointed leaves are very impressive. I don't know if they carry it in their catalog of roses, I can't find it on their website. It was offered to me by phone when they had run out of one of the roses I had requested.

I have 2 from Palatine, I drove there to pick up my ordered from last Sept. Then I saw 20 more roses ( ramblers/climbers) I like. 2 of them were R Moschata( last 2), the "tree" is more than 7' tall. They aren't the real R Moschata though per experts. The beautiful blooms lasted about 2 weeks on the "tree" R Moschata, it was a beautiful sight. Now I am wondering if they'd repeat, I am still waiting at this moment.

The smaller one did bloom once with a few blooms, now it's much bigger, got a lot more canes. I posted photos on the other R Moschata thread. Waiting for the one from RU to compare. They don't look like SGMC, the leaves look diff, my 2 SGMC haven't bloomed yet, they are bands on their 2nd year.

I was wondering about the one from Palatine, I can't find any leaves that have more than 5 leaflets and the leaves are huge, up to 8 or 9 inches long. Any idea which form your Palatine ones may be, summersrhythm?

Anne, I don't know at this moment, still checking on all the R. Moschata on HMF, there are so many of them.....Chris mentioned about "La Mortola"-a once bloomer,

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.162545

I really want to see them to have repeat blooms......like the tag says. I am waiting and checking on my two plants everyday. The leaves look like Rosa Moschata Floribunda: https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.28112

Here is the other R. Moschata thread, we can help each other to find out what we really have:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/3350645/r-moschata?n=46