okoutdrsman,

According to what I have read, this fence gives them pause just to look at it. One biologist said deer can jump high or far not both. He speculated that deer are afraid of becoming tangled in the inner wires if they jump over the outer wires.

Wish us luck. This is our main deer herd defense.

It seems we (Americans) are taking better care of the deer than we are our most vulnerable humans.

Johnny

PS Maybe I'll write a letter to my representative about the excess deer. They are crashing into cars every day.

Being an avid hunter, I'm trying to help all I can!

Having higher deer populations along with more vehicles on the road than ever are the reason we have more deer 'crashing into to cars'.

Several factors come into play when it comes to our current deer population. Contact between humans and wildlife is always the initial driver when it comes to opening seasons and setting bag limits. At this time we have a generous bag limit, but in a lot of cases gaining access to private property is virtually impossible or at the very best, extremely expensive. It's hard to blame the landowner, after all it is their land. If they don't allow hunting, it is their right. If they are getting mega dollars from a lease agreement, it's also their right.

Whether a person choses to hunt or not is a personal choice, but it's the only economical method of keeping the population under control. Trapping and relocating is very expensive and for the most part, highly ineffective. Utilization of professional hunters or poisons are both expensive and have all kinds of negatives. The only other method I can think of is habitat removal. Again, expensive and not affective in the short term. The deer would just move and become highly concentrated in other areas. The end result would be more human contact and eventually a slow cruel death from disease and malnutrition.

One of my biggest complaints with the ODWC is the fact that our current resource allotment of funds for research isn't what it should be. I've been hammering this issue with one of my friends, who is on the Wildlife Commission. Our current management is zoned in large blocks that are no where nearly reactive enough to manage smaller areas that have become inundated with deer.

Regardless which side of gun control a person is on. Under the current administration, there has always been a 'gun scare' whether real or percieved. The result has been a huge increase in funding through taxes placed on guns, ammo and pretty much anything hunting/fishing related. (Pittman Robertson)

Unfortunately, the only thing your representative or the ODWC could add to their arsenal, might be and incentive program to allow hunting, and spend more money toward a more finite style of management. Kansas and several other states have programs in place and most do a better job of micro managing small zones.

A multi fronted assault is almost always best, so I've linked the list of Wildlife Commissioners as another possible option to take your concerns.

http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/aboutodwc/district.htm

okoutdrsman,

Thanks for the link. I'll include them in my mail out.

Oklahoma is not alone with overwhelming deer populations. I have read gardeners laments from most states. It seems to me that the deer have more power than gardeners.

The current rules discriminate against the gardener trying to feed herself. Makes no sense to me.

Johnny

I guess I never thought of it as discrimination? I have deer that come on my property, but about the only time they bother anything is during extreme drought. Even then it's been primarily sweet potatoes and melons that they've bothered.

Raccoons and crows wreck havoc and do more damage in my case. With fur prices being low, nobody is hunting or trapping them. As a result the raccoon population has exploded over the last few years. Crows are a whole 'nother matter!

Maybe I need to see if they can do something about them!

When I worked on a ranch the problem with deer was ticks. You could treat your cattle, but you were never going to get rid of ticks because the deer brought them in.

AmyinOwasso,

Yup, it is time to develop a new plan to control the deer pest.

Johnny

okoutdrsman,

In my opinion, our society should take care of its citizens, present and future. I hope to leave very fertile gardens behind, when I pass, so our descendants will have access to good wholesome food and water.

Johnny

PS

“A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.” -Greek Proverb

okoutdrsman,,

I forgot to mention, deer gave us complete crop failure in two different counties (Logan and Payne) last year. We lost two acres of PEPH peas to deer. That was over 1,000# of dried peas we could have given to the food bank for consumption by those in need.

I'm still pouting.

Johnny

I understand the frustration. I've quit growing some crops until I can get a little more area fenced off. I've found the deer are fairly easy to keep out of most things. Strings stretched across in a random pattern make them nervous. The rotten egg solutions work, but have to be reapplied after a rain. Human hair from the local hair salon or barbershop will keep them out of an area for a while. Another option would be one of the motion detector actuated units that spray water. (ScareCrow, I believe)

Unfortunately, with it comes to politics and deer management, the scale will likely tip in the direction of economics. The hunting 'industry' brings billions into the economy across the US. Whitetail deer are the number one contributor when you break it down. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I can guarantee the numbers in Oklahoma are huge. Several small towns and communities would be greatly impacted if all a sudden we annihilate whitetail deer.

Until we figure out a solution, I'm going to suggest we learn to live with mother nature. After all the deer were here before we were. The same goes for raccoons and crows.

It appears the work you guys are doing is valuable to those that benefit from it and I know you feel blessed by being a part of it. I hope someday to have the drive and dedication to put together something similar around my area.

okoutdrsman,

I'm not so sure about the Mother Nature part. Most of the natural predators have been squeezed out of the picture. However, there seems to be a resurgence of coyote in Logan County. I have seen a couple of good size bobcats too.

My relatives used to use 1/4 sticks of dynamite to neutralize the coyote threat to their chickens. Those coyotes never felt a thing.

I sure wish I had the answers. It seems all I have is questions.

Johnny

My natural curiosity makes me ask which predators have been squeezed out? The wolf or grizzly are about the only species that aren't at near record numbers here in the state of Oklahoma. Neither were ever present in great numbers and likely wouldn't be welcome today. Black Bears are at a level in suitable habitat, that amazed even the agency tasked with managing them. Coyotes and bobcats are at a level higher than ever seen.

Yes, hunters have been greatly responsible for reestablishing the deer population by self imposed control methods. But the real culprit are those of us that have increased carrying capacity, in the form of available food. As crops increase or decrease, the population will fluctuate accordingly.

Man is the top of the food chain and the top of the predator chain. While the number of licensed hunters is at an all time high, there are even more that chose not to hunt.

If you look at it from that standpoint, it appears that as farmers/gardeners, we are enablers, only contributing to the problem. And, if we chose not to help control the population using the tools that are available, then aren't we contributing even further to the problem?

All of that said, I still respect non-hunters. It's a matter of choice and we should be free to make that choice. I respect those of us that grow food even more, even when it seems the odds are stacked against us, we still pursue our passion. We battle weather, chemical intrusion and wildlife. Seems to me out of the three, wildlife is the easiest to figure out how to control when it comes to the destiny of our efforts in the garden.

okoutdrsman,

Like I said earlier, I have more questions than answers.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I still have hope that we will find a solution.

I guess I should look at humans as part of nature. Maybe that is the real disconnect.

The game warden I have talked with tried to explain how the deer hunting policy in Oklahoma has caused the current problem. We should have been taking does all along. Now we have an estimated 750,000 deer in Oklahoma.

Johnny

I would enjoy a conversation with that particular game warden.

His/Her blaming the department's policy really surprises me. Their policy has been to allow harvest of does for over 45 years, with a major push for the last 25. Population reduction and overall herd quality have been the primary drivers. The current bag limit is a possible seven does throughout the combined seasons. Slightly up from 5 in the mid 90s. If they blamed the hunters, I might tend to agree.

For whatever reason it has been difficult to get total buy-in on the part of some hunters as to the importance of doe harvest. I guess it's back to that choice thing.

The best published data I can find is old enough, I question it's validity. In the mean time I've sent out some feelers within the department to see I can find out what the real numbers are. The 750K number seems a little high. With a reported 475K in 2007, and two extreme drought years since, that would be an increase of 37%.

I'm sure you've done extensive research on how to discourage crop damage, but I'll offer a few resources that may have been overlooked. The ODWC, QDMA and the Noble Foundation all offer suggestions and methods of reducing said damage. I can also send you the state Whitetail Biologist's email. If anyone in the state has accurate information, Eric should be the guy.

okoutdrsman,

Thanks again. I am very lucky to have made your acquaintance. Remain handy, I will need your help again.

I have been in communication many times with the Noble Foundation. Smart folks!

We will be planting on a Kerr family farm Feb. 14. I have sought advice many times from the Kerr Foundation. Sustainable agriculture, without planting GMOs or using pesticides or herbicides, is my goal. Vision Farms goals are broader. They include education, food security and promoting local food.

Johnny

Made some headway today.

Our slant deer fence is finally complete.

I discovered an experts touch to deer fences while reading recently.

Wires number 2 and 3 (counting from the ground) are hot and wires 1 and 4 are at ground potential (connected to the ground side of the fence charger). Wires 1 and 4 are in addition to the normal grounding rods. The reason this works better is because wires 1 and 4 conduct electricity much better than the earth.

Johnny

PS I had a nap to celebrate!

Good news!

This morning I found wire #4 very loose on the South end of our 12th Street garden. That wire is connected to the ground side of the fence charger. The wire just below it (wire #3) is connected to the hot side of the charger. At least one deer had a very bad experience.

Johnny

Very likely that's one hairy critter that will dine elsewhere! Now, his/her 27 family members may have to learn the same lesson. Hopefully they don't tear up too much during their frantic exit!

I hope they were witness to the mayhem. I put out eight peanut butter flavored aluminum flags, this morning, on wire three.

Our deer fence is working perfectly so far. I have had to repair the fence a few times. When one tries to walk through the fence, they are shocked to learn the fence is electrified. Pun intended. Then they stretch or break a wire while trying to get away from the boogey man.

I recently learned how to give them a strong shock by adding a couple of wires to the ground side of the fence charger. Works much better now!

Johnny

I'm glad to hear it is working so well. We haven't seen nearly as many deer cruising the edges of the garden or the compost pile this winter as usual, but I see deer tracks every day so I know they are around after dark. With such a big mast crop, I guess they've had plenty to eat in the woodland. Still, once the yummy stuff is planted in the garden, they are always going to show up for a fast food meal if they can get away with it. With your new fence, they shouldn't be eating your beans and okra this year....or anything else that you plant there, and it is nice to have that peace of mind.

Dawn,

I had hoped for this kind of success but, after so many failed attempts, I still had my fingers crossed.

I saw MANY tracks outside the fence but none inside. I saw a few where they had gotten bit by the boogie man and rapidly backed away. The leading hoof print (the print closest to the fence) was very deep from backing up rapidly.

Wish us luck!

Johnny

I just got back from our 12th Street garden. No deer hoof prints inside the wire. Plenty of prints outside of the wire though.

Good, then it continues to work. The idea is to train them (via that tempting peanut butter followed by the "ouch!") to stay away. The more they get zapped before a crop is up and growing, the more well-trained they will be to stay away from the area by the time your crop is growing. It is amazing how they just keep coming, though, isn't it. I wonder if it is the same deer trying over and over or if it is a continual procession of new ones. You dont need luck, cause you've got the fence working to protect the garden.

I don't have a game camera. I would like to know the answer to your question too.

There are about a hundred deer living in that creek valley. There are at least four pure white (albino?) deer there.

For now, I'm satisfied.

I have hung eight aluminum and peanut butter flags on the third wire. I can not tell if any of them have been disturbed. I'll give them another coat soon.

I love albino deer but rarely see them here. I'm afraid to try to guess how many deer we have down here in Love County, especially in places very close to the Red River like we are, but we have far too many of them. It isn't a big issue when there's a big mast year like 2015, but in a very bad drought year, the deer can get awfully skinny and look pretty pathetic as their population outstrips the available food supply.

Update,

Still no deer hoof prints inside the wire. Lots of prints outside the wire though.

Johnny

That's terrific news. So far, so good.