I have Darlow's Enigma, New Dawn growing on the north side of the house. I am getting 3 Super Dorothy (1 bare root, 2 potted 3 gal plants) this spring for climbing on 3 pine tree trunks. I just found out they need more sun, so I have to cut down more pine branches for more sun. Do you have any sunny spots for your bands? Can you cut down some tree branches? :-)

We had 40+ tall pines felled and lots of branches removed last fall. Lots more light in the rose garden and a bonus of tons of bark mulch, but only that one rail fence where I can use ramblers. I have two Darlow's Enigma growing as large shrubs and a New Dawn on an arbor. Both are reliable and never have any winter dieback. I hope your SD's on the pine tree trunks are as beautiful as the pictures I've seen of that rose. I know a lot of roses can take some shade even if they're not designated for shade, so I might go ahead and try them on the fence.

My Francois Juranville, Adelaide d' Lorens and Albertine, all do well in part shade in PNW. I think Alberic Barbier would grow in the dark. The flowers seem to last longer and stay a richer colour than the other ramblers which are in full sun. Ramblers are not fussy like climbers, they don't complain about the situation they are planted in.

Francois Juranville

Adelaide d'Lorens

Alberic Barbier

Albertine

Thank you for the reminder that ramblers are not fussy. All your suggestions are beautiful, but Francois Juranville or Albertine are the ones I would pick for my fence. I'm in the Inland NW, with dry summers and snowy winters, but both of these would work. Isn't FA hardy to zone 4? I've never had that rose, but it's going on my list now that you've shown me that gorgeous photo.

I planted 1 Francois Juranville (bare root) and 1 Alberic Barbier(own root) in my garden this summer, FJ is hardy to zone 4b per HFM, so it might be cane hardy to zone 5.......I will report back in the spring see how it's doing in zone 6a (very close to zone 5). Albertine is not cane hardy in zone 6a, I planted 1 last year on the west side of the house facing chilly wind, it had really bad winter dieback almost to the ground, had 1 bloom this spring, it's better than nothing. :-) I dug it up and moved it to the east side of the house away from the chilly wind, it gets morning sun, it grew some long canes over the summer, that means more blooms in the spring! :-) I can't find any info about Adelaide d'Lorens on HFM, but I saw it on DA UK site, it's a beautiful rambler. http://www.davidaustinroses.com/eu/adelaide-d-orleans

I hope Palatine would have it in the future........ :-)

Summersrhythm, those are all gorgeous roses. Good luck with Albertine in it's new home. Probably foolish for me to try that one here. I really like the form and color of Francois Juranville, but I have decided to go ahead with Super Dorothy and see how it does. I didn't get them in the ground last summer. After having the deer fence installed, I went a little crazy and bought more roses than we had time to plant. SD is overwintering in the garage - fingers crossed. I'd like to use Francois Juranville somewhere, tho. I'd never heard of it. Still want to check on cane hardiness. Albertine is such an old fashioned looking bloom that I have loved for years. It has been on my list many times. I never get serious about it because I'm sure Northland will always have it. If it's not in their catalog, Carol will most likely have a few tucked away somewhere, or let me get a cutting. It might work here in a very well protected spot. Ramblers are usually not grown in protected spots, tho.

flowersaremusic, I got grafted Albertine, Francois Juranville from Palatine, If you know Carol well, and you can wait for them to grow up, it's easier to get them from Northland. For me it's easier to drive to Palatine and bring the rambler babies home. :-)

Summers, Northland is about 45 min. from me, and, I love going there. Staff are all like friends. I wish Palatine was as close. They each have roses the other doesn't have. This is my first winter with grafted roses. I have 2 Munstead Woods that I planted really deep - about 6". Grafted was the only way I could get them. I've just always had better luck with own root, even though it takes them longer to get a decent size. It's whatever you're used to, I guess. There are a couple roses I really doubt Carol will have this year, so will be ordering those from Palantine.

IME,Super Dorothy does indeed prefer a lot of sun, even in my hot,uber-sunny climate. Also, though it's often called a "rambler",to me in reality it's a climbing rose with a sort-of rambler habit. The difference as I see it is that the true ramblers seriously are very, very tough and vigorous ; I have planted them in awful spots (no serious soil amendment,shade etc) and they still do OK . Climbers require more care : better soil, fertilization, etc.So I think if it was me, I'd put F. Juranville on the shady fence. Super Dorothy doesn't get that big; one could easily grow it up a pillar or on a tripod or even as a short weeping standard,so that could go even in the middle of a garden, to add a vertical accent. So, you could put some of your Super D's on the sunny part of the fence, and grow the others on pillars in sunnier areas,whilst F. Juranville mans the shady area on the fence...

I am trying Auguste Gervais for a shady spot.

flowersaremusic, you're very lucky to have a nice nursery nearby. I am an hour away from Palatine on the US side. I forgot to mention at the end of summer, I bought 9 more New Dawn (3 White Dawn)! One nursery marked down their 3 gal roses to $9.99, so I ended up buying 12 roses in total. I couldn't fit them all in my car, had to call for help. :-) For the 3 pine trees I now have Super Dorothy on 1 side facing afternoon sun and New Dawn on the shady side getting some morning sun. Will have to see how they eat the pine tree trunks.........I am planning to wrap them around the trunks, cut down more branches for more sun, so they can take turns blooming, and I will link the 3 tree trunks with ropes, so the New Dawn can huge the ropes between the trees. May be it's not a smart design, but I am going to give it a try. :-)

totoro, may I ask where did you find Auguste Gervais? I'd love to try 1.

Thank you, bart, for your experience with Super Dorothy. The rose garden at Manito Park in Spokane grows SD on an arbor as a climber, now that I think about it. I was planning for mine to grow about 12', but sounds like I'd better not hope for that much lateral, rambler type growth. Good thing I have all winter to think of a place for her. F Juranville would make me just as happy on that rail fence, and maybe do a better job.

Totoro, Auguste Gervais has the look I love - big, fluffy blooms in that delicious color, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't make it in zone 5. It'll bring beautiful, soft color to the shady spot you have for it.

Summers, that sounds like a major project with your pine trees and roses. I hope you have help. But, what a sight when the roses reach maturity! The contrast with the two shades of pink and the big blooms with those sweet little powder puff blooms. SD's petals curve in such a way that they almost have a carnation effect. I hope you'll post photos.

summersrhythm, can you tell me about your White Dawns?

I ordered 2 own root from Roses Unlimited and am planning to put them near some trees where they wouldn't get all day sun.

My 3 White Dawn are slow growing compare to New Dawn for some reason. I cut down 9 trees in Dec 2017, left 8 tree trunks for ramblers to climb. Two of White Dawn are in full sun and one is still in some shade under a tree that belongs to the town by the road. I will feed them well this spring, hopefully they can take off this year. The one near the road wasn doing well but it’s still alive, a car ran it over took off most of canes.

Well, shucks.

Mine will be in part shade. Fingers crossed.

Did you link the trees with rope? I think that's such a cool idea that I might try it once they get established.

I will link 3 pine tree trunks with ropes and string lights later when the climbers and ramblers are bigger. :-)

White Dawn isn't nearly the beast New Dawn is. It's a descendant, not a sport.

Mabye I’ll order a New Dawn as well- as filler.

i bet it looks white from a distance

I ordered 2 New Dawn and 2 more Veilchenblau.

Also a pole saw to clean up some of these trees.

I'm getting really carried away. Whoops.

summers, my 2 White Dawn in "not ideal" spots with shade and tree root competition have outperformed my 2 New Dawn. Although one of the ND was carried away by a squirrel, the remaining own root ND is still tiny tiny.

I think the 1 ND left gets the least sun out of all the climbers/ramblers I planted at the tree bases.

Do your 2 White Dawn repeat faster than New Dawn? I didn’t pay attention on mine. I lost another New Dawn to the voles. They go after many roses during the winter months. The first one climbing on a tree trunk has gone with the wind about 3 months ago. The 2nd one is a once bloomer New Dawn ， most of its old canes dead, it’s in a spot I can’t pull it out. It looks like it started again . I don’t know how many ND left, voles went after a lot of roses this winter.

Summers that sounds like a dream property!

Thanks oursteelers! We fell in love with the place as soon as pulling in the driveway. I am a big sucker for circular driveways. Everytime I see one I fall for it. Lol I will post a pic of it tonight, you will see the future tree trunks for New Dawn. :-) There is a lot of room for roses, but it’s in a deer zone, the rose garden would need deer fence. I found 200’ long 6’ tall chain link fence with all the posts for under $200! The seller changed his mind to wooden fencing. I hope the 6’ would work here, maybe the deer around here all have short legs won’t jump that tall. Lol

........I'd better post some pics after we move in since it's still other people's property. I can't wait! :-)

Lots and lots of pictures!

I will! :-)

summers, I only had 1 bloom on the ND, but that's how tiny it is. It grew to a single cane maybe 10 inches, and then something chewed off most of that.

The White Dawns get much more sun, and I had 3 "flushes" of 2-5 blooms on the first year own root plants.

What is the wire you used to tie up the canes? I used a couple of metal stakes to direct the canes last summer and the sun fried a couple of the canes where it contacted the cane after it got too hot.

I have to pay more attention to my White Dawn this year. Please post some pics when yours is in bloom. :-) I used metal wire for that ND, it worked ok here.since we don’t have really hot summer, which It’s not a good thing, I had to buy a wetsuit for the pool. . Lol Here is a closer pic you could see the wire wrapping around the tree trunk. If you could find electrical wires, that might be better for climbers in warmer zones, I have used it on other climbers, it’s long lasting.

I hope you'll take some good pictures or a video of your current house before you leave!

I had forgotten about this thread and wasn't reading it since 'shade tolerant ramblers' is not something I'm pursuing this year, forgetting that this is my thread.

The Super Dorothy bands that prompted my original question died. They overwintered beautifully, but the following summer was a scorcher and they dried up in the pots before I got them in the ground.

The area they were planned for is still bare, but is not a priority until I get some other areas finished.

Summers, your new property sounds like a gardener's paradise. Please keep us posted. Your photos above are beautiful. A 6' deer fence may be adequate for some deer. A little discouragement may be enough, if there are other food sources in the area. My garden was the only source of food for the deer around these parts, so they were determined. It sure won't hurt to try since the fencing was a bargain.

I'm going to take your advice about the electrical wire. It might be less offensive from a distance too.

Let me see if I can find pictures of my white dawn blooms, but I remember being really really pleased with them. I remember they lasted more than just a couple days, too.

Lovely photos jc! :-)

Gorgeous, jc. They look like gardenias. I bet you will be even more thrilled with them this year as they really take off. We don't hear enough about White New Dawn and we should. It's a beautiful rose that can satisfy those who love the high centered look as well as the old fashioned form as it moves from just opened to full blown.

I am out of town for a bit but will post picture of how well it grew over the last 11 months as an own root band in a suspect location.

It is also 1 of 2 roses I planted that had no disease of any kind last year. The foliage is dark green and looks really good as a backdrop for the white blooms.