I generally plant mine when night time temps are around 50, but I also know I may need to cover them. I cut the bottoms off of milk jugs to make mini green houses for my tomatoes. It helps keep frost off, and keep them a bit warmer at night, just take the jugs off during the day.

You keep asking the same questions.

And, you do not have a thermometer, how do you know what your temps are?

Do what you want.

Hi Jim,

One question I'm sure I haven't asked is "Can someone please analyze my postings?"

Please save the negativity for someone who's asking for it.

Vogueseamstress, I like your idea! Thanks for the suggestion.

Soon as danger of frost has passed I plant toms. If frost is predicted after plants are out,I cover plants.

The more experienced folks on here and other places around the Internet say that putting plants out early doesn't really get you much in terms of a head start. In the cold, the plants' growth will stall anyway, and transplants put out later when the soil is warmer will quickly catch up to or even overtake the plants set out early during colder temps. This knowledge has changed my ideas about plant-out dates. Since I live in a place with a pretty average length growing season (not super-short), I no longer feel the burning itch to start my plants super early or get them out as soon as humanly possible. A local gardening guru claims that last frost date + 2 weeks is really the best time to plant out tomatoes where I am. Sounds late and old-fashioned, but it seems to work great for a lot of people.

Last frost + 2 weeks is a fairly standard recommendation. This assuming the plants are well hardened off first. It is difficult to properly harden your plants if you try to push it back too close to the last frost date. And as gorbelly said, many studies show you don't really gain anything doing it.

There have been many discussions here in the past about the possible effects on plants planted too early - stunting, stagnant growth, compromised circulatory systems, increased risks of fungal diseases that are so prevalent in cool wet weather, etc.. You can off-set some of those effects with protection or with mini-environments like Wall o' Waters, tunnels, etc. if it is really important to push the envelope. But if it isn't necessary I prefer to not push my luck and give the soil time to warm and the erratic spring weather time to settle a bit.

Dave

As I sort of live in a mountain desert type environment (very warm days, cooler than normal nights for a large part of the year), and the fact that I HAVE to get my tomatoes going before they get smacked by the inevitable spring insect problems, I do plant out when night temps are in the 40's. I get a lot more physiological leaf roll, and somewhat slower plant growth than my fall plantings, but it's worth it not to have them decimated as small transplants when the mites, aphids and thrips (oh my!) attack. I live in an area where frost is very, very rare. If I had to worry about frost, it might be a different story, so take what I do with that in mind.

Peppers, yeah, I wait till it's warmer at night. It's not worth planting them out earlier as they just sit there all yellow, stunted and pouty, perfect aphid meals.

These questions do come up often as each person hits the early stages of the learning curve. Everyone has their own experiences in their own garden, but my advice to this question stays the same, and is easily followed or ignored... it's up to each one to do what seems right - - - Air temps have much less to do with the success or failure of crops than do soil temps. If your soil temps are not stable at the preferred degrees for each individual crop, you will see the plants struggling. Air temps, while not to be ignored, can be managed with covers and protection. If your soil is warm, a cold night could certainly damage a plant, but it can bounce back. If the soil is cold... well, toast city.

Those with very large areas that are not easily protected have more difficulty than do those who can throw a cover over a few hoops. A little learning of the tolerances of each plant goes a long way, and all the guessing in the world doesn't beat a halfway decent soil thermometer (in a pinch - even a re-purposed meat thermometer will do.)

There are many advantages to plant early. As one example, in the northeast Late Blight has an arrival date and some late planting gardeners could lose having any harvest.

On the other hand there are legitimate reasons for delayed planting. You absolutely must not let plants get frosted. That can occur when normal outdoor measured temps drop below 40*F. You can play the odds game with growing temps beyond that. In my high tunnels I determined that it was well worthwhile to supplement heat depending on stage of plant development. Until plants show blossom buds I'm comfortable with night temps dropping to 50*F. After plants show blossom buds I try to keep temps above 60*F. To avoid misshapened fruit.

By keeping the temperature up even when nature doesn't cooperate you can more accurately predict a first harvest date since growth will not be detained by lower temps. For me that is an important issue. If you choose to plant early and do have favorable weather then you should be in good shape. We have plenty of daylight at this time of year and there are ways to warm soil so night temps are the only real obstacle.

This is my 3rd year pushing the envelope and planting early .

It is true that they don't grow as fast BUT they do grow for sure. Some of my plants (planted out 2nd week of April ) have grown almost a foot ( from 10" to 23") and they have buds. During all this time our night lows were in low 40 to mid 40's and occasionally down to 38-39F. Our night lows wont climb to 50's , consistently, until mid June or later. By then I anticipate to pic a few ripe tomatoes. YMMV

Sey

It's only 42*F for a daily high today and rainy. My tomatoes are suffering:

That is a nice tunnel, Barrie.

As long as the soil is 50F(+/- 2) or better and air temperature are few degrees above freezing, tomato plants can take it . No doubt they'll grow faster in warmer weather. But when you cannot afford the ideal temperature you can still grow them and hoping that situation will improve. By then they will be working on their root system , getting ready to take off.

Now few of my varieties ( Big Beef , Better Boy, Big Boy, one unknown black) are close to 24" tall.

Just an example : Tonight and the next 2 nights our lows will be in 44F to 46F range. No problem !

Sey

"But when you cannot afford the ideal temperature..."

When or where can one not afford to wait for the ideal temperature? If folks can grow tomato plants in Alaska, Phoenix AZ, Toronto Canada, and Miami FL where in between can't wait for better temperatures? Sounds more like a grower-imposed issue than a plant issue.

Sure we all encounter unusual weather now and then and we all have climate challenges to deal with. But when even tunnel/GH grown plants like barrie's are affected by weather you can bet any planted outside will be affected even more.

Dave

That is your opinion, well respected.

Barries, here are couple of my plants (Big Beef and Better Boy) planted out about 3 weeks ago. During this time the lows dipped to 38F and 80% of the time were in 42 to 44 F range. Planted out at about 8" , today they measured 24" tall.

Big Beef

Sey

Let's face it. At temps below 50F, tomatoes won't do much. They won't fruit, and they won't grow much. But as long as it's above freezing, they won't die, and unless very low temps are sustained, they won't even be stunted. So I think that's right that this is a grower-imposed issue rather than a plant-imposed issue. Why put the plants out if they won't grow much?

I'll have to admit that I don't know how I manage to keep tomato plants growing. I use a more primitive heat system with wood stoves and trying to start a wood fire on a rainy day in a tunnel is asking for a tunnel filled with smoke. But today even with only 46*F and drizzle all day it managed to get up to 60*F inside that tunnel and my biggest decision was whether to keep removing suckers which are growing inches every day or protect plants from damp weather issues by applying a preventative fungicide.

The tunnel growing definitely has it's own set of issues but the degree of my control over these issues is greatly improved. I've lost a few plants to cold temps within tunnels many years ago when I relied on the cover alone as in 1. row cover within 2. covered canopy within 3. tunnel (following concept that one gains a weather zone for each layer of cover).

A heat source makes all the difference nowdays for me but I chose to keep it low cost. An Amish neighbor has a thermostatic controled propane heat system that he claims held his greenhouse at 60*F when it was 15*F outside. We both are growing for profit but I wouldn't want to trade setups. Just like many of you, I have a sense of pride in overcoming odds. Yet I think everyone should erect a tunnel simply to vastly improve those odds. I just covered my 3rd one this weekend.

If it works for you Sey then that is fine. My point is you keep disputing and denouncing well-documented and researched planting conditions - not to mention common practice - based on nothing more that your personal experience. Yet you offer it up repeatedly in numerous discussions as some sort of absolute proof that planting so early will work for anyone who reads your claims that planting during such cool weather is no problem whatsoever. And that simply isn't true.

Do it your way but at least acknowledge that it is nothing more than a method you choose to use because of your personal goals.

You can deny it all you want but luck plays a big role in your approach
so the very most you can claim is that such early planting has
apparently worked for you, in your garden, with your set-up, and your
climate. It proves nothing else but that. And it is unfair to
encourage new gardeners to ignore standard practice and guidelines based
on nothing more than your claims.

Dave

Its all about the soil temperature. Far more important but often ignored as it requires more effort. Warm soil and they will tolerate cold air temps. Notice Sey's plants have black plastic mulch.

This discussion is getting hotter. When someone mastered the basics of growing tomatoes, the next step is when this person wants to get his/her tomatoes earlier and the more of them. At this stage people often want to sow and to plant the tomatoes earlier. It is definitely causes more worries (cold, freeze, etc...), but it also gives the satisfaction of the achievement and the pride of having the first tomatoes early. We are all gardeners, so we like the processes of growing, not only the end results (tomatoes). With some protection and the care tomatoes can be planted earlier and they will grow successfully. As long as the night temperatures above 40 and the day temperatures above 60s, the tomatoes and peppers will grow at slow rate. Even if the day temperatures are in 50s, the simple tunnel in sunny day increase the inside temperature up to 80s and tomatoes will grow. Soil warming cable is a great thing, it warms the soil and the tunnel at the same time. Without the soil warming cable the simple space heater on the lowest settings or a simple light bulb, protect the tomatoes from freezing or from the cold nights below 40s. Sey, Hudson, lartomato, and some others on this forum including myself grow early tomatoes using different methods. Maybe you guys can try to grow 1-2 early tomatoes just for fun of it?

daninthedirt(Cent TX; HZ10, Sunset z30, USDA z8a) Let's face it. At temps below 50F, tomatoes won't do much. They won't fruit, and they won't grow much

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Dan, below 50 that we are talking about is for the LOWS not 24 hours a day.

In my climate the highs are normally around 60F in April. So the lows last maybe 4 hours at nights. As long as soil temperatures are high enough ( ~50F +) for the root system to take up the nutrients plants do grow, although at lower rate.

I posted picture few posts above. I am not theorizing this. Those plants have grown over 14" in 3 weeks where lows have been mostly about 45F and lower and few nights in 38 to 39F.

I am NOT pushing my experience just stating it with living proof . After all, all said and done nothing can beat an experience with results.This is the 3rd year that I have been doing it, not just once.

Another thing to understand is that in forums like this we present our views, be it theoretical or actual results

Sey