Sounds like sticking with the cages is the less expensive way to go - also the easiest. Especially since you already have them. 8' tall cages. Seriously?

With cattle panels you spend a lot of time pruning and weaving and tying up. But if you want to try panels you can take the 4' wide ones and just attach them to the stakes 1-1.5' above the ground. 1' tall plants don't need support.

Dave

I use both. Trellises mainly for cherries, and 6-foot cages for the big guys. They both work great. I'm not sure I see the advantage of one over the other, though the cages are a lot easier to move around at the end of the season because at least my trellises are anchored deeply. In principle, I guess, tomatoes on trellises might get more sunlight than those in cages, but I'm not sure that's a big deal. I suppose spray application of fungicide is a little easier with the trellis, because plants on those are laid out kinda flat.

Are you seeing a particular disadvantage in your cages? Not sure what your cages are made of, but if they're just wire cages then a cattle panel will certainly provide a lot more support.

Thanks Dave, my cages were 4 ft tall then I tie wired another cage on top to make it 8, made of fairly heavy wire rolls I got at lowes ,I did use 6ft t posts driven int the ground with the cages wired to for the wind . it got pretty thick in there last summer ( didn't prune) and got fungal diseases ,was told the best way was to grow on a trellis for more air flow and easier to prune ect. It just seemed more people were using the trellis system here and figured they have been doing this longer than I have

I can imagine trellis would be challenge if you don't prune, b/c it would be difficult to tie a bushy plant , in 2ft diameter to be tied to a trellis.

Sey

all you need is $4 roll of jute/twine and dead tree branches/bamboo or stakes..

http://eorganic.info/sites/eorganic.info/files/u271/Stake_and_Weave_Tomatoes.jpg

or http://eorganic.info/sites/eorganic.info/files/u271/Trellising_Tomatoes.jpg

or http://www.waldeneffect.org/20140316stringtomatotrellis.jpg

and profit: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zuaXFkdQs_4/Ufmg5bLz-PI/AAAAAAAAHTo/rmlSVXJzMb0/s1600/string+trellis+July+31+B.jpg

if you don't prune (or don't want to) you can just set two poles on each side of the plants and run twine horizontally (like in one of the pics above) as the plant grows.
cages suck IMO, when i use one (even the larger 48" cages) my plants over grow it by 2-3 feet then limp over the cage failing support whatever grows above the cage.

If you made the cages from a roll of wire mesh, can't you unroll them to make flat panels? If you want to grow your tomatoes flat, you can also try a Florida weave. The photo is from the fairgrounds in Orange County, Ca.

Florida weave

For ease of use I prefer to use the cages. I use fungicide, and it works enough that I get good harvest. After I harvest the last of the fruit before the worst heat of the summer kicks in here. I pull the plants. I get better results pulling them and then planting new plants a few weeks later. I get a much larger fall crop that way.

Well the point about cage size isn't relevant, since the OP has HUGE cages. But in general, that's true that smaller cages aren't satisfactory. I don't think tying a bushy plant to a trellis is that big a deal. You take the main shoots, when they are young and flexible, and just stretch them across the trellis. They'll grow flat if you coax them to do so. But I have to say that if tied up on a cage with ventilation in mind, there is no reason why it has to get thick inside.

Karl, what are the diameters of those cages? Are the 'spaces' large, or closed like chicken wire fencing? I use concrete reinforcing wire cages with probably 15" - 18" dia. and let the leaves grow out as far as they want to spread. I can see if both the diameter, and openings are small that maybe the plants are being bunched up too tightly, but given room, it may not be a cage vs. trellis issue. That said, here in Tn., if you're planting tomatoes, you're gonna get disease. Oh, you might be able to control it, but it's gonna happen. It's just the climate.

To make it worse, I'm just across from Grainger County... they have so many tomatoes that they literally have the Tomato Wars every year! There's even a few of the 'big boys' (delmonte... etc...) with farms down on the Nolichuckey about 10 mi. from me... lots and lots of fungal spores here. If I remember your location correctly, your down wind from us...

karl_tn,
I never used, and I will never use CAGES.
Here it is why:

1. cages are not tall enough. Even 8 ft. high cages are not enough for most of the tomatoes varieties. Tomatoes can easily grow 20+ ft. so… Yes, of course you can bend the stem over the cage... and you will get a VERY bushy plant.
2. air flow is extremely important to avoid diseases. Most of the cages do not allow air to flow. Besides that, spraying the fungicide is – most of the time - pretty difficult to do and ineffective with cages. Remember: you have to spray on BOTH sides of the tomatoes leaves. Pruning might also be difficult with some cages and bushy plants.
3. no matter how strong you attach the cages, winds of 30-40 miles/hr. WILL take down those cages.
   I always used trellis; I call them “frames.”
   Bellow you can see 2 types of frames that I use. The big one is 16 ft. wide, by 12 ft. wide. The smaller ones are 6 ft. wide by 8 ft. high.

Large frames
allow plants to grow as long as they want. I don’t prune - except the absolutely necessary - so the huge real
estate is very helpful. Also, I had winds of 60 miles / hr. and nothing happened
to the frames or tomatoes. If they were cages…

I highly
doubt that a few cages, could handle the “jungle” above. Talking about “jungle” you
might enjoy reading the Show off your tomato "jungle" ! thread.

For the
large frame I used 2' x 4' lumber and 3 Inch x 2 Inch Mesh 16 Gauge Galvanized Economy Wire Fence 48 Inch Tall x 50 Feet Long [currently
you can get an awesome deal in Amazon: $ 48.00 (40% off)] You can
replace the wire fence with Trellis Netting Heavy-Duty Nylon Tangle-Free Net 5' x 30' [$
10.00 (50% off) in Amazon right now.]

The nylon
net, is much cheaper and way more easier to work with. This nylon net, is in my
garden - on another frame - for 4 years, and it’s like new. The only slight inconvenience for some,
would be that the nylon net squares are 7 in. x 7 in. while the wire fence has
the mesh 2 in. x 3 in. – so it’s easier to tie the branches on the wire fence. Btw, I use these Tomato Clips and
I highly recommend them. Amazon has the
clips but they are very expensive.

To wrap
up things: I like frames / trellis. Yes, it's true, frames are more expensive than cages,
and take some work to customize them according to your requirements, but, imho, frames are well worth it.

Just in
case you’re wondering, the black fabric mulch is Dewitt 4-Foot by 50-Foot 12-Year Weed Barrier Fabric 12YR450 and I
like it more than Straw mulch. The black fabric mulch worked flawless.

But for
those who prefer cages, I recommend heavy-duty ones – like the
one bellow (by our own michael723.) Keep in mind that sturdy cages are VERY expensive.

I've never seen a tomato get anywhere close to 20 feet in height.

Also, wind loading on trellises is greater than wind loading on cages, because on trellises the foliage is spread out to catch the wind. That's pretty simple. Sure the wind can topple either if they aren't properly anchored.

But I think the point about fungicide application is an excellent one. Getting leaves coated on both sides is really hard with caged (3d arrangement) tomatoes. Doing so on trellised (2d arrangement) tomatoes is much easier. For the same reason, trellised foliage will get more sunlight.

Like I said
in my previous comment, the large frame is 12 ft. high. As you can see in the
picture bellow, the tomatoes grew higher than that (see frame's upper corners.) In the middle of the frame you can see most of the plants' top... bended over (some broke.)

To avoid
breaking the very top of the plants, I had to direct the plants HORIZONTAL. Some
of these horizontal top of plants were 6-8 ft. long… plus 12 ft. the frame's high =
20 ft long.

That's impressive. I get cherries that maybe get 12 feet long.

daninthedirt wrote:

>Also,
wind loading on trellises is greater than wind loading on cages, because on
trellises the foliage is spread out to catch the wind.

I beg to
differ. I think it’s actually reverse. A bushy plant on a 8 ft. high cage, it’s
easier to be taken town by wind, than a – let’s say, 8 ft. x 8 ft. frame –
simply because the plant on the frame is very “airy” and the wind can easily
flow.

Wind will NEVER flow through a bushy plant in a cage; the wind will simply take down the cage, and - of course - the plant. JMO.

Well, I can't compare the effect of wind loading on trellises and cages directly, because my cages are anchored differently than my trellises. But wind loading is the areal size multiplied by the wind velocity, and the areal size of trellised tomatoes is a lot bigger than that of caged tomatoes. The wind sure can't easily flow through my trellises when they're filled with foliage. I can just look at the foliage when the wind is blowing to see that's not happening on my trellises. Now, that's partly because my trellises are filled with chicken wire, and that's a fine enough weave that it doesn't allow big gaps in the foliage. If you have a much coarser weave, yes, the trellises will have big holes for the wind to blow through.

daninthedirt wrote:

> I get cherries that maybe get 12 feet long.

The cherries – which are on the left frame – are 12+ ft.
high.

A trellis that is dense with leafy foliage can be like a sail. It will catch wide swaths of wind. If the ground is also soaked and softened from a lot of rain... could be disastrous. A tomato in a cage is easier for the wind to go around, and if you stake the cages well, they are very secure. But really, it depends on how the cage/trellis is built/secured. If I were in Oklahoma, though, I wouldn't use trellises unless in a sheltered location.

I live in an area that gets extremely strong winds at times, and I live on the top of a foothill, and I find that cages zip-tied to engineer stakes do MUCH better than "normal" engineer stake trellis panels. We ended up having to sink 4x4's to attach our reinforcing wire trellises to (and I no longer trellis my tomatoes, just for beans now). Your pictures also look as if most of your trellising is protected at least somewhat from wind by your house, mine aren't.

Caged tomatoes have a smaller surface area for the wind to catch. Trellises act like ships' sails. In extremely windy areas, you're better off with securely staked cages - or just stakes - in my experience.

*edit* Also, you can make a lot of very sturdy cages, cheaply, from concrete reinforcing wire. I think I got about 22 (can't remember exactly) out of a $95 roll. No fancy expensive cages necessary.

@ gorbelly
Yes, a trellis has a bigger surface, maybe 3-4-5 times the surface of a bushy plant in a cage, but it is also 3-4-5 times more “airy” that the bushy case, which will allow air to go easier, simply because the plant… SPREAD.
The nylon net holes (7’’x7’’) and even the wire fence (2’’x3’’) are big enough for the air to flow.
Also, my large frame is at less than 1 ft. distance from the wall. If the 16’x12’ frame would be in the middle of nowhere, with frontal winds, then yes, wind could be a problem. But in my case, the frame being close to the house’ wall helps.
Humsi wrote: > Your pictures also look as if most of your trellising is protected at least somewhat from wind by your house, mine aren't.
Yes, the house protects somehow the frame.

I understand theoretically what you're saying, but in my experience, it doesn't work that way. Not trying to be argumentative, just letting you know that in areas that experience high winds, a securely staked cage will hold up much better than a line of trellis when your plants are fully mature. The cages also somewhat protect the leaves from being battered by the wind as they are on a trellis, in my experience.

(and your trellises are absolutely beautiful, I am jealous)

I read
somewhere that if you can “see through” your “jungle” you don’t need pruning.

Maybe if
you can NOT “see through” a little pruning here and there, would solve the wind
problem.

gorbelly
wrote: > A tomato in a cage is easier for the wind to go around, and if you
stake the cages well, they are very secure.

Imo, it’s pretty difficult to secure WELL a cage. You have to be VERY
creative to be able to do that. I’m not saying you are not, I’m just saying
that some people (tomato growers) are not very technically inclined.

One of these pounded into the ground, some of these to use to secure your cage (bottom, middle, top) to said T post and your cages aren't going anywhere. Sometimes even when you want them to. It's not really that technical.

That's a good point about securing. Comparing the wind resistance of cages and trellises is a little like comparing apples and oranges. I can secure my trellis with wire bolts and concrete, and I can secure my my wire cage by just pushing the tips a bit into the ground. Or vice versa. In one case it will be completely secure, and in the other it won't. I don't think it's obviously harder to secure one than the other if you want to do it right.

daniel_nyc: "Imo, it’s pretty difficult to secure WELL a cage. You have to be VERY creative to be able to do that. I’m not saying you are not, I’m just saying that some people (tomato growers) are not very technically inclined."

Weaving a stake or two through the cage mesh or using cable ties vs. the engineering that is required to make a trellis sturdy? It seems to me that a staked cage is MUCH easier. The problem is that many people think they can get away with not staking because so many terrible cages are designed with those wires you're supposed to push into the ground, or they see something on the Internet for DIY cages that does not cover the importance of staking.

daniel_nyc: "Yes, a trellis has a bigger surface, maybe 3-4-5 times the surface of a bushy plant in a cage, but it is also 3-4-5 times more “airy” that the bushy case, which will allow air to go easier, simply because the plant… SPREAD."

That's not really how it works. Something that is denser and cylindrical is actually going to provide less wind resistance than something that is wide and airy. Unless it's REALLY airy, which is more severe pruning than most people want to do outside a greenhouse.

Personally, I am trying some trellises this year because I would like easier access to the leaves for spraying, etc., and do not live in a high-wind area. But I do not believe that they are more secure than a properly staked cage and in fact am a little nervous about stability, since I do not want them to be permanent this year and won't be pouring cement or anything, and they will not be near any walls or fences.

For the past 3 years I have grown some without either cage or trellis. If this year works as good as past this will be my last for cage or trellis. Just let them sprawl. Some are wasted but it is a lot easier. By planting just a few more plants I'll get the same production with lot less work.

I guess if you can afford to let the plants endure the fungus they'll likely pick up by being dragged in the soil, that might work. And, of course whatever disease happens on your tomatoes, the soil will be well infected. But really, once the cages and trellises are set up, there isn't a lot of work. In fact, the work is minimized with a trellis or cage by having all the fruit easily accessible.

ldj1002, can we
see pictures of your tomatoes sprawled on the ground ? What varieties did you
grow ? How about the crop ?

Hey Daniel, Whats up. Good to see you around.

On tomato support there are different ways to do it.

Definitely a good sturdy tall cage can offer a lot of convenience. But with trellis and stakes and structures like Daniel's you have to do a lot more work.

I use a combination of stakes and wooden structure on my small raised beds.

Sey

I don't have photos. I'll take some when they start producing. Don't know what variety, most are volunteer.

That makes sense. If you have tomatoes laying on the ground, overripe ones will just drop and seed the bed for next year. As long as they were an OP variety to start out with, you'll just keep getting the same variety. That certainly saves some effort!

daninthedirt: "I guess if you can afford to let the plants endure the fungus"

And if you have the space! Space is at too much of a premium in my garden beds. Everything that can be vertical has to be.

Same with me. I have a very small garden area. If you can't go out, go up.

My cages are 3/4 inch PVC pipe and some fittings. These are 6 feet tall. I pound the pipe about 12 inches into the ground. They are actually very sturdy. At the end of the season, I dismantle them completely. They're not glued together.

I limit my tomatoes to four main vines. One vine per upright. That way I can have a larger variety of plants even though they're quite close together.

Hey Sey… I have a little time so I post a bit here.
Sey wrote: > structures like Daniel's you have to do a lot more work.
Yes, it’s true, but my frames last for many years.
ldj1002 wrote: > I don't have photos.
It’s good to take photos.
> Don't know what variety, most are volunteer.
2 threads about volunteers:
- Do I need to mulch my tomatoes? is it OK that they're growing on grass

- Daniel, do you have plants yet?

A few threads
about sprawling tomatoes:

- Best variety to let sprawl (started by you - ldj1002 - in 2010
)

- Let indeterminate tomatoes sprawl?

- Is my problem I let my tomato plants sprawl?

I also
found this info:

Tomatoes (UC Master Gardener Program of Sonoma County)

> Letting
your tomato plants sprawl saves work - no tying, no training, and no pruning.

However,
the disadvantages of letting the plants sprawl is that you'll need to put down
a light mulch to keep the tomatoes from sitting on the ground where they'll be
prone to rot.

And, this
mulch will need to be kept dry. It is also difficult to find the ripe fruits
underneath all of the foliage before the insects and the animals devour them.

Rgreen, the diameter of my cages average 3ft, the holes are small rectangles so I had to cut bigger squares to prune and pull the tomatoes, whe I first tried cages I realized 4 ft was way to small for my plants so stacked them. I do use fungiside now and had a good crop last year. I like Daniels set up but not quite ready for that yet, I went the the tomato festival last year. I'm here in jefferson county

Daniel, love that setup of yours, I saw piks of it last summer, and I also posted piks on your tomato jungle post. I'm still kinda up in the air as to what I'm going to do this year but thanks to you and all who have responded, a lot of good info on here

In rainy locations, w/ high humidity, sprawling can be an invitation for all kinds of disease ,pests, ... It might work in dry arid location, I imagine.

I spent a lot of money and efforts to build raised bed to overcome wetness problems. I spray my plants regularly with fungicide. Even in a cage it is hard to do it unless the foliage is lightened up considerably to allow for air flow and spraying.

Sey

Oh, ok, for some reason I thought you were over near Johnson City. I'm in Hamblen, not far at all. You ever drive out Fish Hatchery Rd., headed south off of the exit from I-81? There are a number of farms on the river there near Bybee which distribute to the tomato canneries. I think they also use them down in Dandridge/Newport at Bush's. Just about everything they plant there though is determinate.

Of course Grainger is tomato central. They make a big thing out of the soil there, but I spoke with the Hamblen Ag. Agent, and he explained that the entire valley south of Clinch all the way down towards Sevierville and Knoxville is pretty much the same stuff with different amounts of clay, depending on grazing and erosion. I hope you do get yours set up well, I don't use fungicide and I'm East of you lol. I didn't make the festival last year, I know they are doing the Tomato wars both days now.

3 ft. wide cages should have allowed for a lot of space. One reason that I like the reinforcement wire is the wide openings. There's plenty of room for them to spread out outside the cages. Regardless of diameter though, if they are bunched up in tight cages with openings restricting elbow room, they're gonna have issues come July and August.

I had minor issues with septoria last year, and of course they quit setting fruit in the heat of August, but once September came around they picked back up and I got a nice finish.

Post some pics when you decide which direction to go with the supports.