As you know, my last trees have been planted in the gritty mix...but I've been sloppy and not sieved out the ingredients...the are doing great regardless...so far anyways...:-)

Laura, You haven't sieved any of the ingredients at all?

No! Let us use my trees as Guinea pigs to see how it works out...so far so good...:-)

Laura, if you keep a close eye on watering and how well the dry out, I am sure yours will be just fine..Maybe 5% out of a 100 now how to regulate water in pots, even in bagged mixes, including all my Asian friends..I am that in that 5%.lol Keep us updated please)

Vladimir, it's good thing you put all the work into it. You will have less to root rot to worry about now at watering time..I would recommend you use some sort of wooden dowel or a barbecue stick and push that into the root zones of your trees to make sure they don't dry out..Those roots have to be consistently moist in the gritty while and you can't judge on watering past the roots until they start to fill your pots.)

Don't worry if they react poorly at first, sometime they do. Then they may all react beautifully..Each tree is different, but in the end they all get use to growing in that mix and thrive.

Good job

My trees never responded poorly to the gritty mix...in fact, they seemed to perk right up. Vladimir, I bought my first orchid 18 years ago...it was a mutty white phaleonopsis from Home Depot. I still have it and it blooms regularly. I have as many as I can fit on a piece of furniture in my sunroom. They like east facing light and only should be watered at most every week. They like to be dry between waterings and then I take them to the sink and drench them. I also give them orchid fertilizer 30-10-10 about every watering...weekly weakly. They are easy to care for. I have experimented with other varieties, but find that they do not flower as often - their light requirements are higher and I don't mess with them. The phaleonopsis are the most grateful. Also, I have lots of fig trees!!! Mine are in the ground though. I think we are at their northernmost range. The last winter was fine, but the two before that were rough...they died down to the base but came back. I have a brown turkey (that gives us lots of figs), a black mission (the biggest of the plants, but has never produced a fig), I also have a LSU purple that I never thought would survive the winters but has, a Peter's Honey fig, and another that I don't know exactly which it is - it was given to me by a neighbor from a cutting of his tree. It is young, but doing well. I actually got VERY mad at my husband because the mowed over my LSU purple that had three small twigs sprouting up....he is not a plant guy and said he was trying to evade the bees that were chasing him. Excuses excuses....I will mark it well next time he mows....I think it will sprout back, but I was MAD!

1 part beach sand, 1/8 part hot chicken manure, 1 part composted cow manure, 1 part mushroom compost, 1 part pine bark. I am not as high on peat moss as many are, nor pearlite. I figure sand for me is free and that helps with drainage. Don't worry about the figs Laura, You can take some cuttings easy enough in the upcoming spring, speaking of which I need to start labeling my figs with DIY copper tags because all of my cuttings are starting to get out of hand and I cant remember what I am planting/giving to people/etc.... ahhh I will be taking 200 or so fig cuttings on 4-5 different varieties next spring so hit me up.

I buy good quality potting soil and mix 2 parts potting soil to 1 part perlite. My plants do fine. It's pretty easy to tell when they need water. The larger the container, the more perlite % I add. This keeps the container fairly light as well.

I just don't have time to drive all over finding ingredients for and mixing up gritty mix. Not to mention the $$. Wish we had a good source for pumice here in the East. ...or even a smaller sized Lava rock.

I'm using 2 parts of fine Forest mulch/bark, 1 part compost, 1 part perlite,1 part peat.

I think I now like the 5-1-1 mix better because it is so much lighter than the gritty mix. It is more expensive though...the reptibark chips are not cheap! I did add a little lime. So far the trees are happy. For those of us who have to move our trees in and out, it is nice to have a lighter mix. I plan to use it in the future.

I'm using 70% perlite, 10% peat moss, 20% fir bark. I just started with this mix, so we'll see how it goes.

5-1-1 (five parts bark chips, 1 part perlite, one part citrus soil).

a good rose soil use it for almost everything

Silica, is Laaz AKA Millet, another forum owner and knowlegeable citrus person? He also uses the same mix of garden soil + perlite. Thank you for your comments.

I think which mix to use depends to a large extent on the environment. If I were in the hot, sunny and dry southwest, I would be more likely to try the aforementioned mix but being in the northeast where it is neither I am less inclined to do so. But I am tempted to give it a try!

Still not sure why gritty mixs weight is a bad thing. What else stops the plant from falling over.

Pip, in my case, I have some large pots (20 - 30 gal) that have to be carried through narrow doors of old (1848) house and down stairs. If pots are on the ground, I can think of ways of anchoring them using stakes.

I'll be everyone's Guinea pig for a while ;-). I have several in potting mix and perlite, some in a modified mix with cactus mix and perlite, some in gritty mix, and some in the 5-1-1 mix. So far, they are all quite happy. We shall see how they hold up.

I use the 5.1.1 mix or the gritty...The more aeration the better for my trees)

This
is what citrus vendors recommend for mixes for container grown trees:

Four Winds in video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5rvfqPydq4):65 % potting
soil “for acid loving plants” , 30 % bark, 5 % coconut coir

On their websites: Fourwinds & Lemoncitrus: Organic soil and + 1/3-1/2 volume
shavings, perlite or coco fiber. Briteleaf: 30% Canadian Peat and 70% composted Pine
Bark. You can add sand if you want.

In response to my asking them regarding soil
mix to use: Harris: Well draining soil mix.
If you cannot find a citrus soil, you can use a cactus soil mix. NatureHills;
Basic potting soil should serve this plant just fine. Please ensure this
soil mix does not contain a heavy fertilizer, as we do not want to shock the
tree in its first season with you.

Vladimir...It's all crap...

Those citrus nurseries tell you what you want to hear, and tell many to grow their trees in mixes they would never use, not even for their local area..Some vendors will even go as far to encourage customers to use mixes that kill their trees so that they will keep on replacing them..$$$$$$$$.I don't trust them for one bit.

Whom I do trust are those that have been growing citrus in "containers" for years, knowledge based on science and facts, and pictures. There are some here that are suggesting to use crappy mixes and yet show me no proof that their mixes really do work for an extended period of time. One member here has recommended coconut,coir and debated me about it, and now uses soils, and yet has never posted a picture. That's not what I call helping me.. Some come here just to make false statements and could care less about getting to know the members here, or for their success...Some that like to tout theirs and that's it while others are sincere.

I've been here for years and most of the trusted info posted here for me are those that have been well versed in the 'container forums', and apply what they have learned there and help others to do the same. Many have come and gone, those that push their own agenda, their own crappy mixes, bad info, and then great info and some very helpful. I'd be careful when deciphering info here because for your trees sakes, it's do or die depending on what one might pick or listen to.

Many of those soils would never hold up to our growing areas and in fact hold salts, cause issues, encourage root rot, harbor pests, steal the mix of nitrogen, rob oxygen and yadayada.

It was me that encouraged Four Winds to suggest a potting recipe for the public without the shavings which rob nitrogen, but they half listened but did agree that a well good open and porous mix is what citrus prefer..

I'm concerned that many will fail in some of these touted mixes with too many fine particles, and I am sure I am going to step on someones toes by being so. It's a fact that 'most' everyone I know fails in them, especially in ares where citrus have to be held up indoors without the best conditions they should have for weeks on end.

I'm not surprise that a question as you asked has not sparked debate. It's because some are afraid to speak in defense of porous mixes and ones such as the gritty or 5.1.1. When one disagrees with pudding mixes or well thought out proven porous mixes, there is where the debate begins......................

After my trees have come off from months of a lack of light and no fertilizer or vinegar, and respond to good summer heat and sunshine, I will post what a good open soilless mix such as the 5.1.1 or version of can do for containerized trees..

Enjoy the cold wind today.I wonder if we will ever get more than a day or two of warm weather...30's tonight..

P.s...For all those touting the pudding mixes, please show us the proof that these mixes work? Post pics of vivid green full leafed out trees and I might give those mixes with lots of fine particles a try..As the say.." The proof is in the pudding"..)

Mike)

Mikerno-1micha your comment: "The more aeration the better " (for the roots)

I would add... to a point. - Silica

100% agree with everything you said Mike. After starting to repot my trees from a soil blend into 5-1-1 I can see how the soil blend trees had declined. Even if they looked ok above soil.

It is interesting what these greenhouses recommend. I also called some of my Canadian suppliers and asked about their mixes and they all said to use some type of blend of compost and organic potting soil, even the really reputable ones. Even after tough cross examination by me about 5-1-1 they still held firm and sure enough their trees arrived healthy.

So that leads me to believe that if one has a heated greenhouse perhaps there is some flexibility with container mixes. For those of us with less than ideal winter conditions we have to be vigilant with an open mix like 5-1-1 or gritty. Otherwise we are probably just enjoying steady declining vigor from the day the trees arrive until death or repotting.

Without a doubt, my trees do better in a durable mix. I really like bark-based mixes for ease of sourcing, assembly, economy, and durability. I start with uncomposted bark, which adds to the life of the mix, and I often omit the peat/potting mix portion and replace it with something like turface, red lava rock, pumice, perlite, et cetera.

Josh

Mike, I agree with you and from what I've seen, the trees I have in the more porous mixtures are all doing very well. Which leads me to my potential problem: I have a few of my older trees in a potting soil/perlite mix. So far, they are responding beautifully, but I worry for the winter months. Should I repot those in the more porous mixtures before the end of this calendar year? Many have fruits now. They will likely be ripening this winter...one tree is a Persian lime and the other three are Meyers...????? What do you guys suggest??

I have bought trees from LemonCitrus, Harris and Nature Hills who recommend using some sort of potting soil. All trees from these vendors came in mixes containing bark and no potting soil that I could see. Clearly, the mixes they recommend are not the mixes they use to grow the trees.

Laura, I would re pot them as soon as they are at peak growth period, starting about fathers day for my area..Many here know when spring full growth starts for their area..For some it could be a bit earlier if further south.

I have never lost fruit or flowers on any of my plants at that time. Peak growth period. Your trees will be much better equipped for the following winter by then)

Vladimir...Very oservent! Not once have a ever gotten a tree grown in what these places suggest and in fact, the ones I have received are usually in a very very bark mix unless they are sold for fast sale, them being in very peaty mixes in which I have to re pot as soon as I get them or not to far after.

Hobby, well said!

Thanks Mike! I will do that. One needs a bigger pot I suspect. Should I just shake off as much dirt as I can? I worry it may be too much to wash the roots...what do you think?

It's never too much to wash the roots, or should I say keep them under water and you move the tree back and forth as the soil mix rinses away from the roots..You can even manipulate them under water easily pulling the old mix away. The key is to break as little roots as possible and not to expose them to air...Leave them in the bucket of water until you are ready to lift the tree to place in your new mix in the new pot, and bury them asap. Make sure to fill in all around the bare roots, even using a sort of chop stick or something that will we able to allow the mix to drop between all the roots...

Did you know that working with roots and trimming them actually does them good if done at the right time and the right way?

Bonsai people do that all the time...You will hardly see any do this during the darkest days of winter, usually before trees awaken from dormancy, the most optimal time of the year, or while trees are at their peak levels actively growing)

Root trimming can be beneficial to compensate for top growth, for roots that are hitting the walls, and for removal of dead roots. Another couple things to do that I don't see many do, "even in pots" is to fertilize according to season and fertilize right at the edge of the root judge by the tree crown/dripline rather than throwing a slow release or mixing in a slow release fertilizer. Oak leaves and pine needles work similar to pine bark and I like using pine needles in the fall for mulch. We have grown many different varieties of citrus along the gulf coast and found often cold every couple of years wipes some of them out. The ones that do best are protected from wind, often even better than ones that have been misted, something to think about. Plant in a high spot with northwest facing/wind protection if planting in ground.

I've never tried the gritty mix. I re-potted some of my trees in Al's 5-1-1 mix couple months ago (5 pine fines, 1 peat, 1 perlite). They look very happy already, the happiest they have looked. Having more trees than I need I decided to experiment with some - I potted some trees in 50% aged pine bark, 50% ocean forest potting mix just to see what they will do, and a couple in a very light potting mix made up of some odds and ends. So far all are doing ok, but I have really been ontop of watering correctly. By the way, I noticed the Repti-Bark is on sale (54% off) on Amazon today for those who have no other way to get bark that size. I use a product called Daddy Pete's Soil Enhancer to get my aged pine fines. I water with spring water.

Thank you Dave!! I just ordered three large packs! I have a few trees I need to repot, plus a little extra in case I ever find a New Zealand lemonade.

Calamondin, darn, I wish they sold that stuff this far up north! It looks like nice stuff. Thanks for letting everyone know that and the Repti Bark sale)

Laura, what did you order? The Repti-bark? Or the Pete's enhancer?

Mike, I ordered the reptibark. In a bit over a week, I'm going to repot my big Meyer (Alexander the Great) to a larger pot and I'm going to need plenty!

Reptibark is beautiful, I use it. But pine bark "soil conditioner" is much cheaper.

Does the Reptibark have to be screened when used for the 5-1-1 mix?

Vladimir, it is pretty uniform....no need to screen. Very easy! This close-up gives you a good idea.

Agreed. For the 5-1-1 mix, the Reptibark is suitable out of the bag. Be sure to soak it overnight, though.

Josh

Oops...Josh, why does it need to be soaked? I did not do that when I planted my trees. Luckily, they appear fine.

Vladimir, my pic did not show up before...I hope it does now...

Laura, thanks for the pic. I love the pot. Where did you get it?

Laura, as with any dry bark, it's best to hydrate fully so that there are no dry pockets or resistance to wetting in the future. Soaking is the best way to do this.

Josh

Got it Josh! Thank you. I will do it from now on. Vladimir, $10 at Home Depot!

I have never bought a tree from any nursery that bark didn't make up the majority of the mix. I'm learning the hard way that commercially made potting mixes are an epic fail long term though they do fine for seasonal things such as kale/tomatoes.

That's pretty much the problem. Commercial potting mixes were originally made for seasonal things, annual flowers and/or veggies, and they do a fine job for that purpose.

Most mixes were never meant to last for more than a year or two, and yet many plants in pots these days are long lived shrubs and trees, such as citrus.

And actually there is another area where we can look to for advice, in addition to the fine folks who've developed Gritty Mix and 5-1-1 Mix; Bonsai enthusiasts.

They've figured out a lot on how to keep looooong lived plants in pots, often the same pots(!) for decades. Really, Gritty Mix is very similar to Bonsai potting mix, without the painstaking layering of various layers of different sized particles. A well planted bonsai pot mimics the layering of soil in nature. But we don't need to do that for Citrus, just a well draining, long lasting mix is fine.

I use whatever I can get hold of. Usually a bag of multi purpose compost that I mix with perlite, vermiculite or grit depending what I have access to. We don't have a car so can't travel much for compost

5 parts fine bark, 1 part coarse perlite, 1 part potting soil. Fertigate with FP and ProTek. Trees are doing fine- green and growing.