Why not grow dwarfs and compacts that are already adaptable to small containers? Tiny Tim is one variety. Hahms Gelbe and Red Robin are others that will happily grow in one-gallon containers.

Dwarfs from the dwarf project have larger fruit, but prefer 5 gallon containers.

Linda

For what it's worth, you can stunt tomato plants, as much as you want, with chemical growth regulators, more specifically, GA antagonists, but, none are safe for food crops. But, if you use the stunted tomato plants only for seed production, then a little Paclobutrazol will go a long way. See

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Paclobutrazol-15-Bush-Load-Piccolo-Gravity-bonzi-Phosphoload-Bushmaster-Cyco-/171570419464?hash=item27f264d708:g:SnoAAOSw0vBUgggi

If you use this, do NOT eat the tomatoes!

Whoops! Apparently this growth regulator can be used on some food crops, but I have no experience with it and, therefore, just ordered some, myself:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Prohexidione-calcium-WP-Apogee-Regalis-Paclobutrazol-Bush-load-Gravity-CCC-/181686409936?

I would like to see proof of the OP's claim that seed companies are selling imposter seed. That's a bit hard to believe.

Thanks for the advice on chemically dwarfing. I need to know if it will stop flower (and therefore seed) production. it would work wonderfully if the plant can still produce fruit naturally. I only know of growth regulators which keep plants from getting leggy before sale, by not letting them grow.

LAB: I need smaller versions of SPECIFIC cultivars - to make them easier to manage and to isolate them from the garden in places where I can't put a full size tomato. Don't need other dwarfs.

2 PROBLEMS W BAGGING ONLY BRANCHES: This widespread procedure may be why such a phethera of cross-pollinated seeds exists. (1) A large plant needs to be in the garden next to other plants. (2) You can't tighten the bag totally or you will kill the branch. Therefore- a tiny bug from the plant next to it may crawl in the bag and brush against the flower leaving pollen.

EXAMPLES OF THE SERIOUS PROBLEM OF CROSS-POLLINATED SEED;

Google "mexico Midget" and you will get post after post about the imposters sold by big seed companies.

Look at all the versions of Brandywine

"Costoluto Genevese" is sold as vastly different cultivars. I am not sure if I can still get the one that I first bought about 10 years ago. (Read the post about CG variations on gardenweb).

Neighbor bought "chocolate cherry" seed last year. It grew brown Romas- much bigger even than Juliet.

Used to grow Prosperosa eggplant, which germinated and grew like the other eggplants. This year, seed from 3 different companies germinates VERY slowly and at a low rate. Did these 3 companies all get poorly handled seed, or are they selling a different plant? Will I ever get true Prosperosa again?

These are cultivars that I love, and I want their true seed.

Digdirt: Tiny Tim naturally dwarfs to 2 feet (in a 4-gallon), but you can stunt it to 6 inches in a 3-inch.

Has anyone dwarfed a large tomato and kept it healthy by planting it in a small pot?

There is so much mis-understanding in your post that I'm not sure where to even begin.

"A large plant needs to be in the garden next to other plants."

That may be necessary in your garden but isn't the case for many home gardeners much less for commercial seed producers.

"You
can't tighten the bag totally or you will kill the branch."

Then you aren't bagging properly.

"Therefore- a tiny bug from the plant next to it may crawl in the bag and brush against the flower leaving pollen."

Reflects a total misunderstanding of how tomato blooms are pollinated. And IF a tiny bug can get in and IF that tiny bug had any effect on the pollination then how would you possibly keep him out even if you bagged the entire plant?

"Look at all the versions of Brandywine"

They are not "versions". They are different legitimate strains and labeled as such by all legit vendors. If you buy seeds that are not labeled with the strain name then you need to use a different seed supplier.

"This year, seed from 3 different companies germinates VERY slowly and at
a low rate. Did these 3 companies all get poorly handled seed, or are
they selling a different plant?"

90% of germination problems are due to the methods used, not the seed.

"Neighbor bought "chocolate cherry" seed last year. It grew brown Romas- much bigger even than Juliet."

Easily explained as either a stray seed or hybrid throwback. And it is supposed to be bigger than Juliet and often has somewhat of an oval shape. So where did his seeds come from?

" Tiny Tim naturally dwarfs to 2 feet (in a 4-gallon), but you can stunt it to 6 inches in a 3-inch."

Tiny Tim is not a dwarf, it is a micro variety and easily re-sizes down to very small containers like coffee cups.

I'm sorry but you are making some claims about tomatoes and the seed industry that simply don't hold up to anything more than personal opinion. Sure there are disreputable seed vendors out there. Sure even the reputable companies have some instances of stray seed or mis-labeled seed but they are relatively rare. And start buying seeds on amazon or ebay or small mom n' pop vendors trades and the quality of the seed is even more questionable. But that in no way supports your claims that " Most of the seed companies are selling impostor seed."

"I am thinking of growing the large tomatoes for seed in 1-gallon pots
with the idea of dwarfing them to make them more manageable."

Your choice. Give it a try and learn what happens for yourself. That is often the best way to discover the many errors in our underlying assumptions.

Dave

As Dave says, you will find out.

I once grew an Early Girl inside one winter in a 3 gallon container. I didn't get many fruit, but it was an interesting experiment.

Linda

" I need to know if it will stop flower (and therefore seed) production. it would work wonderfully if the plant can still produce fruit naturally. I only know of growth regulators which keep plants from getting leggy before sale, by not letting them grow."

Paclobutrazol is the active ingredient in Bonzi and, if anything, it will increase flower and seed production. The fruit will be smaller, though.

Sumagic is registered for tomato transplants, see:

http://www.valent.com/professional/products/sumagic/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&pageid=41937

You can buy the active ingredient of Sumagic, Uniconazolel, much more cheaply here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Uniconazolel-15g-95-Plant-Growth-Regulator-/201532639064

There is a Russian PGR for tomatoes being sold, but, it doesn't list the active ingredient:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plant-Growth-Regulator-Athlete-Russian-High-Quality-/291737025925?hash=item43ece1bd85:g:bRkAAOSw~oFXDoo0

I think you are titling at wind mills here but you can certainly do what you want. A few words of caution though. To stunt the plant by using small cotainers is going to stress the plant and the smaller the container the more stress you introduce. You open yourself up to disease and very small misshappen fruit and possibly inviable seed. I saved some last year from a stressed plant due to the weather. I only got about 50 percent to germinate and of those that did some were deformed.

Good points hoosier. Seed savers normally recommend saving seeds only from the best fruit on the best plants. Stunted and stressed plants might result in modified DNA in the seeds.

Plus I'd be curious to know what the effect of using any of those chemicals would have on not only the viability of the seed but the genetics of the seeds produced.

Dave

Hmm. You cannot alter the genetic by certain growing method in one season. .

Plants do change to adapt to their growing environment but it will take many many generations. JMO

Sey

"You cannot alter the genetic by certain growing method in one season."

No, although unlikely, it is theoretically possible via epigenetics. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics .

For example, when a domestic pig becomes feral, it develops very different physical traits within a year.

I recently tested some PGRs bought on Ebay;

http://www.general-cathexis.com/images/TomatoProhexidione-Calcium.jpg
All three tomato seedlings in the 4" pots (disregard the ones behind them) germinated at the same time. A 1 g./quart solution of 10% WP Prohexidione Calcium was applied as a soil drench to the seedling on the right just before it developed true leaves. The one on the left was sprayed twice with the same solution after it had 4 true leaves. Middle is control.

http://www.general-cathexis.com/images/MorningGloryProhexidione-CalciumDrenches.jpg
These are morning glory seedlings drenched, immediately after germination with the aforementioned solution but at 1/4, 1/2 and full strengths. Behind is control.

http://www.general-cathexis.com/images/MorningGloryUniconazoleSpray.jpg
The left was sprayed with 10 ppm of Uniconazol just two days before I took the photo, yesterday. Right is control. I also tried it on a small section of my lawn and some bushes but it is too early to see a difference.

I think you (OP) are well intentioned, but misinformed, as others have stated. There are several very good seed companies that bend over backwards to make sure that they are selling correctly labeled seeds. I wouldn't throw ebay into that lot, although I'm sure there are some good sellers on there, but you are taking a chance.

As for saving seed from your seeds, (tomatoes),you really are making it too hard. Just grow the plant, bag a few blossoms, and you're done! There are hundreds of articles on saving seed from tomatoes, all say pretty much the same thing, and it really is just that easy.

"A 1 g./quart solution of 10% WP Prohexidione Calcium was applied as a soil drench"

That plant now has a ripe tomato:

http://www.general-cathexis.com/images/StuntedBigBeef.jpg

I tried unstunting it with gibberellic acid (GA) and was only partially successful. The only useful conclusion is that the effects of Prohexidione Calcium cannot be fully reversed with GA spray.

IMO, you should just bag the blossoms. It will work better than covering the entire plant, which is a strategy that can backfire if wildlife breaches your barrier or if you get busy and the plant grows past the space you prepared for it and opens up the barrier someplace, or a storm blows through and messes up your barriers--and then ALL of your seed will be questionable, not just the ones in bags that fell off or were compromised.

I suppose you could work up a system with a wire cage of a kind with openings small enough to prevent wildlife from damaging whatever you're using as an insect barrier and which still allows you access to maintain your plants/assist in pollination (which you may need to do if the cover blocks enough wind), but that seems like way more of a hassle than just bagging blossoms.

If growing space is an issue, then just start topping the plant after the first few trusses have set, making sure to leave/allow enough vegetative growth for photosynthesis to support those first few trusses. Using this approach, you can probably get away with growing large indeterminates that you top early in 5 gallon buckets, maybe even 3 gallon buckets. And doing that will probably be far less stress on the plant than trying to "dwarf" it with a small pot, and it will not open the door for epigenetic problems the way hormone-based dwarfing might.

Also, I will say that I have purchased seed from a number of reputable vendors, both large and small, and never had germination problems, and almost everything has been true to type. If I buy seed from questionable sources (sometimes can't be avoided when looking for hard-to-find varieties), I fully expect questionable germination and have usually gotten just that.

It is possible to 'dwarf' tomato plants by planting them in too small pots. I think that much is obvious.

You shouldn't go too low however, as you risk not getting any fruit.

I have grown Indian Stripe and Azoychka in about 1.5 gallon pots, they didn't grow more than 1 meter (also smaller leaves etc), they made a reasonable crop, smaller fruit but still pretty good otherwise (really tough skins due to extra stress). But you really need to be careful with sufficient water.

As for your goal, it's easier to just plant them normally, prune to one stem, and cut the tip after 2 flower clusters. Plant will still be fairly small, and you can plant them quite close being one stem. You will get big healthy fruit with this technique, and possibly even be able to grow 2 crops in same place during a season.

Lucille(9a) I would like to see proof of the OP's claim that seed companies are selling imposter seed.

I've no 'proof' but my wife got a gift with commercially packaged organic seed and the beefsteak are ripe at about the size of ping-pong balls and the black cherry tomatoes are bright red. One seed turned out to be an interesting weed.

Albert, what was the brand of the seed? From what vendor?

There is a big difference in the "bargain" seed companies and the reputable companies. The seed companies that I have bought from have all sold honestly labeled, viable seed. If you buy from a new place, a little known place, and I'm going to say it...China on Ebay...then you get what you deserve.

Interesting, that the 2 posters both claiming they got "imposter" seed, haven't named the company. If I got bad seed from a reputable company that I thought was intentionally scamming people..I would name them.

Donna: If I got bad seed from a reputable company that I thought was intentionally scamming people..I would name them.

Yep.

Before I became familiar with and had personal experiences with seed companies, I read their reviews on the Garden Watchdog database at Dave's Garden. I find those reviews pretty reliable and detailed and, more importantly, easy to look up. A lot of good gardening forums have testimonial or review sections, but finding stuff in them can be harder.

Just another thought...if I truly had seed that I thought was so special that I could never get a replacement, then common sense would dictate that I grow ONLY 1 variety out at a time. Then bag the plant, bag the branch..just stop playing with chemicals that you don't understand on a seed that is supposed to be so rare.

gorbelly(6b/7a | Sunset 32 | SE PA)

Albert, what was the brand of the seed? From what vendor?

I don't remember. Salt Lake City was somewhere in the fine print. I will inquire. She may recall.