UMMMM I got an email with a reply that someone left for me, and now it's not here?!?! Weird.

Purple Hopseed can be trained into a small tree. Our nursery has some like that already. That's the kind we'll use so we can indeed plant in front of them. Our border is 8 feet deep. The center of our yard got sod last week. We have a 2 year old and a dog, we need functional. We don't need a fancy garden magazine cover garden. Planting along the wall will give us privacy we desperately need.

I'm the one who posted and then deleted my post. I was going to suggest you Google "How to plant a mixed shrub border" or "mixed shrub border planting plans" etc. to find some instructions on how to do it artfully. There may be whole books about it at your local library for all I know. I know it is one of the more difficult landscaping looks to get right, but could be fun and stunning. I am in the midst of installing one right now, and it's been tricky since just about everything I want to plant will get destroyed by deer. I deleted my post because I guess telling someone to look it up on the Internet or get a book on it doesn't add much to the discussion, but what you're asking about is a really big topic . . .

I think the plan sounds acceptable.

The plan seems half baked. Not to say that what you propose won't work, but who's to know if it helps the whole back yard come together unless planning is done for the whole back yard? Before doing any planting, you should complete the planning for the whole space. Then you can pick and choose any little bit that you want to bite off and actually implement, knowing that it will all work out to the good in the end.

While the plan view is helpful for seeing where things go, it is not very helpful for seeing what might need screening and what form that screening ought to take. For that, it would be better if you stand in a central location at the back of the house (about the same distance that the portion of the house nearest the fence is) and take a pan of slightly overlapping photos, capturing most of the back yard.

In general, it's going to look better if you place taller material near the corners of the yard and the shorter material to the central spans of the fence.

Yardvaark, like I was saying, the center of our yard has gotten sod last week. We have an 8 foot border along the two fences and the back brick wall. We have a plan for the whole space.

My question here is for suggestions on how to arrange shrubs and trees along the back wall so that its planned out. It'll get planted, though in small sections, starting with the corner where the big tree is going and proceeding along the wall as that is the section that is most open and in most need of privacy.

Mom not even asking for a drawing of what exactly to plant and exactly where, but more so "a group of the same shrub here" "a group of the same shrub here", etc. I'm not sure I like the suggestion to use the exact same shrub in both open sections, but I also don't know how to go about configuring it any other way. I'm definitely no expert.

Our patio is rectangular but pano mode on my phone distorts the photo. This was also taken before the sod was installed.

I think you're trying to squeeze, or leaning toward squeezing too much variety into the space. How many different sidings did you use on the back wall of your home? One. How many different lawn grasses did you use for the lawn? One. How many different fence types did you use for the fence? One. There's no compelling reason to have too many plant varieties, which would only weaken the artistic statement that you're making. Where you're showing the 3 purple trees, it seems out of scale for the size of the space. If you're trying to do the "mixed border" it's a different ball game.

There might be some small places for shrubs, but consider that they will for the most part serve no physically functional purpose. They won't extend the screening height of the fence. They will just screen the fence! If the fence is broken by clusters of trunks of trees, it will not seem so long and boring a stretch of material.

There will be a need for groundcover below the trees in order to minimize mowing. It will also help tone down that there seems so much fence.

I'm probably bringing the bed line farther into the yard than you are. The trees will not look as good if they are shoved too close to the fence. Over time there would be shade, making it hard for grass to grow too close to them. I would plant the trees in the right place and adjust the bed line to them, rather than adjusting them to the bed line, if it is too tight. I've also rounded out the corners more, to help with mowing and appearance. What I'm showing below is a scheme, not a plan.

I guess I was originally picturing more of a mixed border. I find them to be much more interesting. But I was picturing a row of trees and tall shrubs in the back and more interesting plants in front of that to add more interest.

I guess since the wall is 160ft long I figured I'd need more than 1 variety to break it up and not be so boring.

I'm also getting confused because I started 1 or 2 other threads back when we were drumming up ideas and I was told "don't plant 1 shrub all the way down". Then I sketched a few varieties in a repeating pattern (symmetrical) and was told "no don't polka dot it". Now the nursery suggested a rather symmetrical look so I came here to ask about that and I get "ya that sounds feasible". Makes it difficult to figure out what TO do to arrange them, but I haven't found anyone or anywhere that will help me seriously hammer it out. The nursery keeps claiming they'll help with that but every time I take my photos and sketches the person still doesn't help me...will answer like 2 questions and move on their way.

I even googled for help and still couldn't find much help.

The corners ARE rounded off like that. Forgot to mention that.

Even though I was originally thinking of a mixed border, the more I think about it, the more I need a simplified version of that. I worry that I won't be able to keep track of and maintain 300 trees and shrubs.

Don't get overwhelmed. You don't need to start with 300 trees. Start with 3. A common guideline for planting beds and borders are plant in odd numbers, threes, fives and sevens are popular for that reason. It's just a guideline, the border police are not going after you if you do two or four occasionally. You can also have a standout "specimen" tree if you want, something unique. But too many of those and you're into polka dot territory. I can't imagine in CA that you would want lots of trees and shrubs, because it will require lots of water, so at first your planting might seems sparse but it will fill in with a little time. With a border it is a balancing act between too much symmetry and not enough. That's why you seem to get conflicting advice, you want to avoid both ends of the spectrum. Yardvaark gives you good advice, start with one area, plant it how you like, congratulate yourself, have a patio party, and then move on to the next. Have an overall plan in mind, but realize it is not cast in concrete. I just was working with a very expensive landscape plan for a shrub border, done by someone who ostensibly spend a lot of time on it, and one of the species was not for our zone, one other was a nightmare of maintenance, and another was a boring ubiquitous plant that was planted over and over again in other places and this was a deer infested area, so those baby shrubs wouldn't even be worth the trouble. And at the nursery, I fell in love with a new Japanese white pine cultivar and just had to get it and work it in somewhere, even though it was not in the plan. So even the best laid plans evolve, and there's no one perfect way to do it. I would imagine you could research some suggested trees for your area and then see what they look like at the nursery. Unless you are a serious weenie, I think it pays to find a couple of good nurseries and work with what they have, you can arrange things on site to see how the colors and textures work together. Yardvaark has taken your plan and just filled it in a little bit, so you can see how you can start with the bones and then fill in as time and money permits.

Ya, and I very much appreciate allll the advice. Just wasn't considering using the same shrub all the way down. So that's a new thought.

BUT. If I do a "big" tree in that pointy corner (it's rounded out back there to make space for it) and Purple Hopseed right off the patio (even if I do 5 to make it more substantial), what other options do I have to fill in between the tree and the Hopseed and between the Hopseed and the other corner.

I don't mean name something to plant, but just in general should I fill in both sections with the same shrub or would it work to do 2 different shrubs?

You don't have to make that decision today.

If I return to the scheme you first propose and look at the space between the large tree, 3 purple plants and the far other corner, and consider that you may place shrubs in the 2 voids, I ask, what will the shrubs be like? (height, form, arrangement, quantity, etc.) and what will they be accomplishing?

What would be the purpose of extending lawn into the pointy corner? Much better for you to balance it out with the other corner.

Oh no I mean the lawn doesn't go all the way into the pointy corner. It rounds off and was brought in a ways like you kinda drew it. Same with the other corner.

Maybe be it would be easier to judge how this could be arranged if I make a small list of our top contenders for the shrubs we'd choose??? I'll work on that...my list is at home, but I know one is Chollipo Euonymus.

kiminpl, I actually do need to decide today. Some of what I decide on will be going in this week.

So our list of shrubs that we could potentially use between the tree and the Hopseed and then between the Hopseed and the corner of the yard are:

Camellia japonica "elegans splendor" (not sure this one makes a good screen, I just wrote it down since it gets to our ideal size)

Euonymus japonicus Chollipo

Texas Privet

Red Cedar Forever Goldy

Wild Lilac Ray Hartman Std (tree form)

Pittosporum tobira Mock Orange (I really like this one if we could keep it narrower than 15')

Not saying we'd use them all...it's just a narrowed down list of potentials.

I cannot help you with shrub selection for your area, but I ask again, what is the shrub form doing for this space? What is it accomplishing?

Screening out the houses on the other side of this busy-ish road. Many of them have balconies.

Shrubs are plants with foliage that goes all the way to the ground. 49 times out of 50, as they grow taller, they grow wider. A large shrub can occupy a fair amount of ground space. You're already screening the low level with a solid fence. Why do you need to screen the fence? If the shrubs are going to screen people's balconies (above the fence) they're going to be large. Why would you want all that bulk consuming the yard space at the ground level? I'm not saying no shrubs. But a little goes a long way where it's pretty obvious the tree form would be more useful to you for screening higher elevation views. I am stumped by this, which is why I brought it up earlier.

The wall isn't really that pretty either. LOL. It's about the color of concrete. OK, maybe it's a beige-y color and not gray but still. Boring. I'm sure with some tree trunks and some lower shrubs it would break it up. I just don't have that many options for things that come in tree form. Purple Hopseed, Photina (that's a hell no), there's a pittosporum that comes in tree form but there was a reason the people at the nursery didn't recommend it (I think full sun was not pittosporum's favorite). There is Wild Lilac Ray Hartman but it gets a bit too wide. Granted we could plant them so some of the tree extends over the wall but I'd rather not if we can avoid it. I THINK Carolina Cherry Laurel comes in some sort of tree form but isn't that kind of messy? ANYWAY, if we go the "all trees for screening" route it would likely need to be all the same one just for the lack of options. I think that's why I really like Euonymus japonicas "Chollipo"...not completely fond of it's variegated leaves, but it only gets 6' wide and tolerates pruning if it goes crazy.

Gosh, if Smoke Trees were evergreen I'd plant those in a heartbeat. I fell in love with them at the nursery the other day. Maybe that's what I should plant in that corner at the bottom of the pic. Although my hubby REALLY likes the idea of a grouping of Forever Goldy there (Thuja plicata) like you suggested. :)

Went to the nursery to see what grows in tree form other than photinia and purple Hopseed. Unfortunately the only person I could find to help was the girl that acts like she can't walk away from me fast enough. She definitely doesn't act like she wants to sell me anything.

Maybe 5 purple Hopseed and a section of euonymus on each side of that, with trees at the corners. Hmm.......

You guys have all the answers, so if I've stumped you, it's no wonder why I'm getting stumped. And frustrated. Lol.

I don't see how Euonymus is going to screen anyone's balcony. Not as familiar with California plants but have a difficult time believing there are only one or two practical small trees. Have you gone to the GardenWeb forum for northern Cal. & inquired for suggestions of plant materials there?

Ya and I get no help.

What does semi-evergreen mean? I've never heard of that.

I found Arabian Lilac trees online just now. Vital trifola "Purpurea" Says zone 9-10. According to all websites I use for my zone, it says zone 9. The nursery says we're a mix of 8 and 9. So will something 9-10 be ok? Nice looking, doesn't take much water once established...

I know you can't comment on certain plants for my area, but can you answer my general questions about zone?

I don't think my nursery has these. I wonder why.

Semi evergreen is that it is almost evergreen but will have a period where leaves are thin. If you are partially zone 8, then a plant that lives in 9-10 is not going to be happy sometimes. Maybe really not happy.

Have you checked the Sunset Western Garden Book? I remember it being really helpful when I was gardening in California.

Vitex grows well in my zone 7B/8A garden. It can be trimmed to tree form, but the native variety here wants to be a big bushy shrub. It is deciduous in my zone. A great waterwise plant. Mine has been in ground for 7 years and is probably 15 feet tall.

If Vitex grows there, that's a good choice. I overcome the bushy shrub form by, once there's enough trunks, gathering them into a vase shape during early summer and cinching them until they'll hold (about a year). It's a combination of tying up and cutting. Before doing this, during the first couple of years, I cut to ground early spring in order to increase the number of trunks. During that period I don't do any tying.