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Growing issues

10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago

Hello All,

I would REALLY appreciate you looking this over and I hope to glean some ideas out of the wisdom of your growing years.

We are a SMAL,L family-owned, micro-mini farm and have decided to expand out and sell our veggies this year at a local start up farmers market. That is beginning June 25.

We have always had great success in the past of growing veggies in horse compost we have brought in from a local stable. (It consists of horse poo, sand and wood shavings (most likely a soft wood variety).)

It's been aged, on average at least two years. It is not completely broken down.

compost sample

But it has broken down tremendously and has a nice smell of earth to it.

We have grown in this same stuff in the last two years with good success. Especially tomatoes and squash, melons, cantaloupe and leeks. We brought in about 100 yards worth this year for our two veggie areas.

In the one veggie area (the most pertinent to my questions) we placed about 15 yards over the existing dirt/compost from previous years.

In the past we had brought in horse poo, dairy compost, dirt, sand and peat moss to grow in wooden raised beds I had built. But since we were ramping up to a small market garden, decided to get rid of the permanent wooden raised beads and just grow directly into the beds I would create by rototilling and then raking out the walking paths.

Last years Beds

and the lettuce were able to direct seed and grow in them from last year, with some of the same horse poo in the bed as this year (although possible not quite as much)

When we purchased this place, 6 years ago, it had been abandoned for 2 years and the "fields" were full of weeds and the ground EVERYWHERE was impacted clay. So rather than fight with that, I decided to just keep bringing in farm animal poo and laying it on top with decent success.

We have always had VERY good success with lettuce greens in this "soil". Normally from transplants to, the last couple of years, direct seed.4

This year I have direct seeded some beds to have lettuce greens, carrot, radish, turnips and peas for that first farmers market.

I direct seeded the lettuce on May 10th. We are watering currently with a portable oscillating overhead sprinkler.

The lettuce has finally germinated but has only shown the first two leaves and just seems to be sitting there in limbo.

Lettuce seeds coming up from 5/10 seeding. Haven’t looked like this since Sunday.

We have since planted the same lettuce seeds in trays in the greenhouse as an experiment (and to get SOMETHING growing) and they have already past the field lettuce in growth in just 10 days. (Yet, the thought of transplanting 1000s of lettuce greens plants into the ground seems rather daunting.)

I am now currently going through all the beds with my new HUGE broad fork and trying to break up and bring to the surface the hardpan.

But the broad fork is only 12" deep and what with the 4-6" we placed over the top this spring and the previous years compost mixtures, plus the hardpan being SOOOOOO freaking HARD it's rather difficult to bring up much of the dirt below. And when I do it comes up in hardened clumps that my little Honda tiller has a tough time breaking apart.

I rented a LARGE walk behind tractor with the tiller early in the season when we first had laid the new horse poo, but it too seemed to hit the hardpan and then just scrape across it. I have not rented it since taking the broad fork to some beds. (But certainly not opposed to that either.)

So now with the farmers market rapidly approaching us I find myself in a conundrum of not wanting to continue to plant seeds into the medium for worry of the same results, but also ALL of our fields now have 4-6" of this and so what to do about it in order to get us to be able to grow this season.

I have thought of drastic ideas: as digging the horse poo out and pile it off to the side, bringing in dirt and some better compost.

This would certainly take some back breaking work, time and money to get it all done in a quick manner, but might be worth it on a test matter to see.

Do I bring in 100 yards of clean fill dirt (with it's weed seeds and clay in it) and spread it over the entire 2 growing areas and till it all in?

Or rent a small back hoe (excavator); go in and dig down and break up that clay and bring more of it to the surface and then till all that in with the horse poo? (Could be an expensive rent. But may quickly open things up.)

• But do I mix in the current horse poo stuff, or go get some compost to mix in instead?

Or a smaller scale combination of those choices in the areas that I want to direct seed greens and root crops this year?

What other choices do I have?

I have not had the new stuff tested this year, but had the stuff I got from him last year tested and these are the results we got back:

Any thoughts or ideas you have would be greatly appreciated in order to get us growing this season.

Thank you again for looking this over giving me feedback.

Rick

Comments (8)

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Where are you? Here where I live, E. Tn., it's much too hot to grow lettuce. It's not uncommon for lettuce to not want to grow in 80 F - 90 F heat. Unless you are in the far reaches of Canada, or Alaska - or there's a place in N. America that is still 40F - 70 F in the daytime - there's a good chance it's just too warm.

  • 10 years ago

    rgreen48: Thanks for the reply. We are in the Boise area 6a. It's been in the mid 60s and low 70s. So don't think that's the reason.

  • 10 years ago

    I had a similar problem with dense clay underneath. It just took time to make garden beds with good soil all the way down. For the first several years there were heavy clay clumps whenever I stuck the shovel to its full depth. I did a little double digging but mostly the worms and the soil food web and the addition of compost to the shallow soil or even the top of the ground (along with mulches) did it for me. If it's too big to do manually, consider just waiting. Or get a plow in there this fall and plow in compost a little deeper.

    Avoid digging the clay when it's wet, it will make rock hard clods.

    Rex Landings thanked toxcrusadr
  • 10 years ago

    So there is no dirt mixed into the compost? Maybe it is too rich? Hope there is no residue from herbicides. If you can't till it into your soil and it is laying on top and you are considering bringing in soil maybe mix that into the manure. You can test a small area and seed a fast sprouting crop that is sensitive such as beans. If they sprout and look healthy then you will know it's not contaminated and then just add soil. Seems like you should try whatever solution in a small test area first before using time and money that may be a waste. Good luck to you.

    Rex Landings thanked chigardenlady
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    You should be looking for professional advice such as you can obtain from your county's Extension Service office. Likely they have a Small Farms Agent or something similar.

    Locate that office using this interactive map:

    http://npic.orst.edu/pest/countyext.htm

    Rex Landings thanked j_r_natter71
  • 10 years ago

    I did contact them also. I have not heard back from them as of today.

  • 10 years ago

    What is the soil pH?

    How much organic matter is in that soil?

    How well does that soil drain?

    How well does that soil retain moisture? What is the level of major nutrients in that soil?

    I can't easily tell if the University of Idaho does soil testing but you should know what the soils pH and major nutrient levels are. Guessing a that only leads to problems. Also, these simple soil tests may be of some help.

    1) Soil test for organic
    material. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in
    a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and
    replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24
    hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight.
    For example, a good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the
    bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above
    that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top.

    2) Drainage. Dig a hole
    1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains
    away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain
    away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drains’ too quickly and needs
    more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the
    soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up.

    3) Tilth. Take a handful
    of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is
    released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a
    finger that clump should fall apart.

    4) Smell. What does your
    soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant
    odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria
    will be and the nicer your soil will smell, to a point. Too much organic matter
    can be bad as well.

    5) Life. How many
    earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5,
    according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that
    is not healthy.

    Once you know more about the soil you can make decisions about what needs to be done to make that soil into a good healthy soil that will grow strong and healthy plants.

    kimmq is kimmsr