Prairie_northrose, I like you!!!! LOL! Thank you for enabling me - it's what I had wanted to hear.... ha ha ha!!! I am so tired of those Pee Gee's being a little bit pathetic... LOL....

Now, if I show you the front of my house here, please help me pick something:

The location in question is by the foundation right below the porch. See how low and small those Pee Gee's are? You can't even see them! This photo was taken just a couple of days ago.

Ideally, there would be 3 smaller shrubs by that foundation, so that they reach the level of the railings (so about 3-4 feet tall and no more).

If I replace it with hydrangeas, I am thinking of Little Quick Fire as stated above. But would Bombshell work there? I wanted the earliest blooming one there! :-)

However, I am also thinking what else might work there.... how about some dwarf dogwood shrubs with bright red twigs during winter? But perhaps the summer "look" there is more important because during winter, the front yard is full of snow and who cares how it looks there anyway!? LOL!

Or do you have other ideas for smaller shrubs there please?

Thank you!

It it was my understanding the PG's were one of the most shade tolerant hydrangeas. Mine in a shady spot also failed to thrive. How much sun does this spot get?

SCG, yours too? But you're in a much warmer zone, right!? When I saw those Pee Gee's thriving in the Vancouver area, then I look at mine, I just shook my head.... LOL

Anyway, mine is in an area that gets some morning sun, probably for 2-3 hours and that's it, since it is by the foundation in a north facing location. So it is not totally shaded but not a great deal of sun....

I am not really all that warmer by zone but I like to lie to myself.

I am sort of thinking you may have a hard time with any shrub there. Worth a try though.

If it were me, with it being the front of the house and a tight space, I would pick something really loved and wanted to feature.

North facing is tricky. There is a house here that has hydrangeas on their north side, but they just look like green bushes until September until the blooms come.

In my opinion, I would pick either Quick Fire, some other type of decorative bush, or not a bush at all and a vigorous perennial instead. But I'd need to think about it.

Thanks, SCG and prairie_northrose!

How about Ivory Halo dogwood? I think the foliage and colours will be lovely. The only thing is, it is a bit overused here...

Any other suggestion would be much appreciated!

My ivory halo failed as well, I don't think it got enough sun.

Maybe a couple of large Hostas or ferns.

Are you serious, SCG!? Your Ivory Halo failed as well??? Did you check the soil there or something!? Hmm....

Ivory Halo seems to do well around here as many people have it and they don't seem to take care of them and yet they seem to do well... LOL

Let me show you a photo of the area close-up - it's taken just now:

you see how pathethic those three Pee Gee's are, after THREE years!? LOL! I need something that will come all the way up to the railings...

Actually, just now, it is pretty sunny there. As I said, it does get about 3 hours or so of morning sun....

What will look really good there and do well too!?

Oh SCG, no hostas or ferns - hostas get munched up by those darn bunnies and bambi's around here LOL.... I don't think that it gets enough moisture there to grow ferns.

I think that something "structural" needs to get in there. Something with lovely summer features (either gorgeous foliage or lovely flowers like the Quick Fire flowers) and/or something with great winter interest like the red twigs of some dogwoods...

Now, since it is north facing, if I decide to go with a hydrangea, rather than a Little Quick Fire, should I be going with a regular Quick Fire there, recognizing that it probably will not grow as big as my hydrangeas in sunny areas in the south backyard?

I think in that location bigger would be better than too small, you already have that!

Why worry about winter interest in Calgary as there is nothing interesting about winter there!

LOL SCG!!!

Just tell it like it is! I love it... I agree that winter interest is not that important there in Calgary...LOL!

How about a Lemony Lace Elderberry?

Just at a local garden centre now and the guy there is super helpful... he suggested a Sorbaria sorbifolia "sem" which should do well there. What a great idea! What do you all think?

Hehe, You might be on to something with the elderberry, but I think is should be centre with a little quick fire on either side.

I thought you were going to get rid of that ugly tree in the middle?

kidding.

My only fear about the false spirea is it eating your deck and taking your front garden over. Then again it probably would hide the unwanted tree. It may stay under control there but i have seen them 15 ft tall and engulfing acreages here. The ones I know of sucker like crazy. Take lots of before pics before planting it.

Okay I missed the "Sem" part, maybe that one will behave.

Oooh! SCG, you are so in trouble! LOL! This IS the new tree! This is the Gladiator Crabapple that I planted last year, after pulling out that horrendous Schubert Chokecherry with black knot!!!

LOL!

Oh okay those trees are exceptional if you are on a $20 budget.

Let us know what you decide. I plant in a very different manner than you. I buy what I like then decide where to put it. Usually in the wrong place and too crowded with no end plan.

Hehe

After thinking about it some more, if it were me I'd go with the full size Quick Fire because of the long lasting blooms. There are few shrubs which bloom for so long, and with such changing colours.

SCG, I plant in the same manner! I got JP Connell rose, two Limelight hydrangeas, Quick Fire hydrangea, Campfire rose and Bartzella peony all in pots because I don't know where to put them! And some beds are a mess, tall things infront of short things, etc.

I end up doing lots of moving plants around after observing their growth. Oh well, at least I get to enjoy flowers quickly. I like to say I'm going for the "cottage garden" look where the perennials are so crowded, they smother the weeds.

I just looked up "Sem". Nice foliage!

Thanks! I think that I am down to the following choices:

1. Quick Fire hydrangeas - but will they do poorly like the Pee Gee's?

2. Lemon Lace Elderberry, or even Black Lace - how would the foliage look in part-sun? The Black Lace may not be as reliably hardy...

3. Ivory Halo dogwood - so overused around here!

4. Sorbaria sorbifolia "sem" - lovely but in part-sun the foliage will be more chartreuse than golden, and I am quite worried about its invasiveness...

My heart tells me to go with the Quick Fire hydrangeas!

Now, I am really curious as to how the elderberries would do there though - they would be my "Japanese Maple substitutes" there.... ha! I so miss my laceleaf Japanese maple from my zone 5 garden before.

What would you do?

Oh, I just had a crazy thought - how about mass planting Ligularia "The Rocket" there!? But I don't think that it's moist enough there.... oh well....

I'm the worst. I would go with one of each lol!

This is coming from someone who is starting to be known as the plant lady in the neighbourhood.

I'm the type to try plants just for the sake of it. You never know how they do in that spot with those conditions until you try. I'm the type that likes to have one of everything. And if I don't like it I shovel it and give it away.

The sensible side of me would do Quick Fire, but you have that in the back.

You have a beautiful front yard, especially considering the north facing and few hours of sunlight.

Oh prairie_northrose, I'd like to have a plant lady in my neighbourhood!!! LOL!

My sensible side also tells me to go with the Quick Fire. However, should I even try the Fire Light????

Then even though my heart tells me to try the Lemon Lace elderberry, when I look at the photo, I just don't see how a yellow shrub there would look great. In fact, I think that the Black Lace would look better there, but it is less hardy. Also, there is a Gladiator Crabapple there already, so would there be too much dark foliage?

BTW, a few garden centre guys told me to consider a viburnum, such as the Blue Muffin viburnum, or Bailey's Compact Cranberry Bush... hmm... I am not so sure. I think that the viburnum would look kinda "blah" there. I think that I need something more striking, more of a statement shrub. What do you think?

At this rate, I may just be becoming the "plant guy" in my neighbourhood! LOL

BTW, there is about 8 feet of width there. Is it crazy to plant different shrubs there, or would it look best if I form a hedge of the same shrub?

I had Black Lace, but it didn't survive. Probably neglect on my part, maybe the wrong spot. I see them in the nurseries and they look so nice, but I tell myself just walk on by LOL. Firelight looks really nice in the photos. I tried to find one a few years ago, but couldn't and ended up with a Fire and Ice instead. This year I see Firelights at CT. What about Incrediballs?

My first thought was that a hedge of the same would look nice, then realized I have three different ones in my front ... I definitely fall into the impulsive category. Like prairie_northrose, forever moving things around!

My first thought was a highbush cranberry, there are varieties in many sizes and the fall colour is really great, a red you don't see enough of in calgary. White blooms and red fruit make it look great all year.

If you don't like that choice, I also like the idea of ligularia or other viburnums, lots of choices there. Or how about a rhubarb for pies? :)

Ahahaaa yes if it were me I'd also consider ornamental rhubarb or goats beard! But I like crazy unique statement plants.

I have Bailey's Compact viburnum, nice lacy white flowers similar to Quick Fire for a week. Brilliant red foliage in late fall. Plain green foliage for the rest of the year. We ended up moving it to a less featured spot in the yard.

Thank you so much for your suggestions!

I went to a local garden centre after work this evening, and got some great advice. I also got to see some shrubs, too, so that gave me a good idea as to what would look nice there. At this point, the sorbaria is OUT. Ivory halo dogwood is just too common, so it is out too.

I surprised myself that I liked some of the viburnums there - the Blue Muffin has nice shiny green foliage. However, the flowers were a bit too inconspicuous and the leaves don't turn colour. The compact forms of cranberry may be OK. However, just like prairie_northrose said, for most of the growing season, the viburnums are just green.... so may not be pretty enough for the front yard.

I saw the elderberries and really loved them! Black Lace may be a bit unpredictable.... though it's doing great in my back yard and is now over 6 foot tall! If I go with an elderberry, I probably would go with the yellow ones.

As for other more unusual things, I did consider ligularia, but I don't know if the soil there is moist enough. Does it really need tons of water? Then I thought of goat's beard too! But the flowers only last for a short time, otherwise it's just green too.... hmm....

Now, rhubarb! That is an interesting thought. I like how interesting the leaves are! So architectural!!! Now, the thing is, does it also like tons of water too? I have never grown it before, so I would like to ask you guys about it.

As for hydrangeas, if I am to go with it (which is still likely) I think that I am going to do something different, something that I don't have yet. It has to be early blooming. So I have found these locally available options:

1. Phantom hydrangea

2. Fire and Ice hydrangea

3. Firelight hydrangea

So, essentially, the list has now changed to:

1. Hydrangea paniculata

2. Compact viburnum

3. Golden elderberry

4. Something unusual (rhubarb/ligularia etc!)

Now what do you guys think please? Thank you again for all the great suggestions! Keep them coming :-)

Interesting and fun discussion! I like your front yard. What are the grassy clumps?

Do you have weigela? I have "Polka" by my back window and it has similar conditions (morning sun). It is in full bloom right now...it doesn't grow as prolifically as the "Red Prince" I have in much fuller sun.

I would be hesitant about spending a lot of money on shrubs that require more light, as you have experienced with your hydrangeas...they might live, but they won't grow to their full potential. There are a lot of plants that are offered for sale but they struggle to overwinter in harsher zones.

Are you set on planting shrubs in that area? I'm thinking about the herbaceous perennials I have growing in part shade that has some height and my suggestions are: actaea, rodgersia, monkshood, ligularia dentata, and already mentioned, goatbeard. Astilbes would be okay too. I have dahlias that do well with morning sun but you would have to bring them in for the winter.

Thanks, North53! I will show you closer pics later. There is a variety of grasses like blue oat grass, Karl Forrester etc. Then many clumps there are actually day daylilies!

Donna, thank you! I saw some weigelas and wondered about them too, but was not sure if they would be hardy enough for my area. So I should look into that more.

I am open to the idea of perennials too, but they must be substantial enough to be seen from the street - I need something there to add the height and "substance" in that area. Hostas can get big and I love them, but they are going to be munched up by bambi and bunny there... and to think of our hail too... yikes!!! I think some big ligularias would look nice but don't they need tons of water?

Thank you!

Donna, ideally I want something 3-4 feet tall there, at least... I listened to you and planted Rodgersia in my backyard 2 years ago... lovely but so so so slow to establish! Since this is the front yard, I would like something that looks good sooner... that is why I keep going back to shrubs....

Ostrich, I took some photos today of the ornamental rhubarb which is in the park near here. I noticed its in a part shade spot, there are big poplars near it. I don't grow it myself so I can't say what it's needs are, but when I drive by the park it certainly does make a unique statement!

prairie_northrose - thank you so much for taking the photos! They certainly make a statement, but I am not sure if it's a good one though, with these... LOL! This is the problem with herbaceous perennials - they can look good one year, and then bad the next, esp. with our lovely mild weather in Calgary... LOL!

Now, I must make a confession - I went to Costco this evening, and made a couple of impulse purchases - I bought a couple of Phantom Hydrangeas!!!

I don't know if I should keep or return them though.... I think that ideally I would like something like Fire & Ice hydrangeas.... but they were not there. Instead, I saw these Phantoms, and was mighty impressed by their strong, strong, sturdy stems. Do these bloom early like Quick Fire or Fire & Ice?

Yes, that rhubarb is a monster. Striking, though.

I don't have Phantom, so can't say.

They have Fire Light hydrangea in 3gal pots for about $35 at Lowes in Balzac by Cross Iron Mills mall. When I went there last, they were just starting to leaf out. They had at least a dozen of them. I'm gonna wait a little bit and see if they go on sale.

Ooooh! prairie_northrose, when did you see them at Lowe's? I went there a couple of weeks ago and they were just full of very poorly maintained and dried up plants, so I just left. I didn't see any Fire Light there at all.... maybe they have had a fresh shipment since? If so, I am so going there again!!! LOL

About two weeks ago, they were outside the gates of the garden centre, at the furthest end away from the entrance. With the hot weather a few days ago, there certainly is a chance they may have dried out.

How about, instead of trying to grow something large enough to cover your porch railing, you grow a vine that can trail down from the railing? Someone on my street grows clematis that look spectacular most of the summer in places that don't get much sun. For spring, when the clematis is still small, you could plant a goats beard in front. The tall flowers would give it height, but then it would back off a bit to let the vines shine. A bleeding heart could be another option too.

Just another way of looking at the problem.

Violetjune, now that is something that I had NOT thought of before! Thank you so much. Even if I did end up planting other types of hydrangeas there, it would not necessarily stop me from putting a climber there anyway! Thank you!!!

That's very kind, be sure to keep us updated.

Perhaps Korean lilacs as they don't get too big. Or some of the newer smaller ninebarks that have different foliage colours.

Are there any evergreens there?

shazam, thanks! I did consider a smaller lilac too, but then don't they need full sun to bloom well? In terms of lilacs, how do you like the Bloomerang lilacs that rebloom? Mine in the backyard is finally doing OK, after 3-4 years but the blooms tend to be smaller and not as dramatic as the Korean lilacs... I am wondering if this is a common experience?

In terms of evergreens, I do have a few there, like Calgary Carpet Junipers, a golden juniper, as well as a Weeping Larch, and now a Dwarf Weeping Norway Spruce. I also wondered about putting some evergreens there too, but what would do well and look good there with part sun?

Prairie_northrose, I went to Lowe's today and got a couple of those 2 gallon Fire Light Hydrangeas today! The thing was, even though they were very healthy looking, they were quite small plants. On the other hand, the Phantom Hydrangeas that I found from Costco were pretty big already, even though they were in 2 gallon pots too. I think that Phantom Hydrangeas probably are just much more vigorous..... hmm.... maybe I should just return those Fire Lights???

Interesting about your experience with the Bloomerangs. They're actually a Korean lilac cultivar (my Korean lilac reblooms occasionally depending on how nice the weather is). Looks like they traded off size for speed. I wouldn't say they need full sun, I find that actually like some protection from the wind. There's lots of lilacs where I am and even in north sun exposures they seem to do quite well.

Yews does well in part sun. And they're perfectly hardy here but hardly anyone plants them.

Shazam, it could just be that my Bloomerang lilac is not mature enough for it to bloom as profusely as the dwarf Korean lilacs that I have seen? It is performing better this year than last year.... maybe it will be even better next year!?

I am now leaning towards another hydrangea for the front yard. Trying to decide between Phantom and Quick Fire....

Given the style of my home, which would look better there? The lacey blooms of Quick Fire, or the large flower heads of the Phantom? Or should I stick a couple of dwarf lilacs there instead?

I do not see either Phantom or Fire Light readily available right now, so either way I think you will have something unique!

I saw Sem false spirea in person at Canadian Tire in Airdrie and I really liked the foliage! They also had Little Lamb and Vanilla Strawberry hydrangeas, which was very tempting. I do have Limelight, although only in a pot, has been very vigorous so far for me.

Where we used to live we had quite a few lilacs in shade, with only a few hours of light each day, and they did well, although they were in a spot which had plenty of water.

I think the key is to go with your gut, or the plant that keeps you thinking about it even if you don't have it. I love hydrangeas and roses myself! I have Therese Bugnet on the north side of our shed right now which is blowing me away!

prairie_northrose, thank you! I think that going with my gut feeling is the best way to go...

I looked at the photo of my house again, and I really wanted something that would blend well with the rock garden style front yard. I think that the lilac would probably not look so integrated there.

So it's back to the paniculata hydrangeas again! Quick Fire probably would be a safe bet as it has a great look and it has done well for many of us in this climate.

Phantom is a bit of an unknown but I quite like it. Then the Fire Light - well, I do like it but the only plants I can find are these expensive 2G pots at Lowe's! Also, hardly anyone has any real experience with it....

So, should I do Phantom or Quick Fire? I should sleep on it a bit then....

Thanks again!

What do you think of having both? I think either choice would be great!

Just go with what you like. That's what I do :)

I am leaning towards Phantom now..... :-)

OK, I have made up my mind.... going with Phantom now. Thank you everyone for your input! :-)