Hey, man! Are you still in Calgary or did the nearby fires make you move again? Ha! Hope you are doing well.

I do not have Phantom but my Little Qiickfire is blooming and was in the broccoli stage by the end of May, courtesy of El Nino and this year's warm winter. But, I would not expect this to occur in Canada.

Praecox may be the earliest paniculata still since it blooms on old wood.

One place I looked in on the Net said Phantom blooms in mid-summer. Another said it blooms before Limelight. None of the places used the word "early" when talking about Phantom's blooming times.

Fire Light had some places saying it bloomed "early in the summer".

Fire & Ice should be "early" in the ads because I remember I was thinking of it for that reason. Then a nursery near me got a few and I still held back because all of them were tree-form hydrangeas or "standards" and because the blooms fried in that year's hot summer (100s). The blooms went from white directly to brown. Theeen I decided to try Little QF a year or so later.

I have a 3x3 Phantom and it does *not* have any forming buds on it. I would lump this into July or later.

F&I is blooming at the same time as QF (currently). This is a sparse year for my QF. I recall trimming off last year's blooms in September, so I technically I did nothing wrong to it. F&I also does not have flowers forming on every branch, so I would treat or expect this to act in the same manner as QF. I'm not quite sure what genetic difference there is between F&I and LQF, but I might suspect LQF might be the smallest.

Hi luis and springwood_gardens! Thank you!

Luis, good to "see" you again!!! Yes, I am still in Calgary... it was zone 3 here but recently they changed that to zone 4, but still, my choices of plants (and hydrangeas) are rather limited.... SIGH! The fire is way up north in Alberta, while I am in southern Alberta, so I am fine, but it was truly a dreadful thing that happened to Fort McMurray.

Luis, the Phantom hydrangeas are sold through that "blue pot" company here. They say on the label that Phantom starts to bloom in June! But it does not say that on the various internet sites, as you stated. So I am not sure.

Springwood_gardens, I love my Quick Fire too, but as you stated, I don't find that there are always buds on every branch. Still, I love its form and early blooming, BUT! There is a BUT... LOL... I don't like that "pantyhose" colour that it goes through as the blooms mature. That is the only thing that I don't like about it, and why I don't want to have it in my front yard. It is OK in my backyard but not at the front... LOL!

It seems like Phantom may be more of a vigorous grower and bloomer - would you guys agree? I cannot find Firelight here easily, but I am not sure that I like the form of the blooms that I see online. As for Phantom, some of the photos online are absolutely gorgeous, but others show the blooms as HUGE white blobs which I find a bit unrefined.... how do they look in reality? I have never seen one in bloom here in Calgary.

So, if it's between Phantom and Fire & Ice for my front yard, what do you think? If the early blooming power of Fire & Ice is not in the equation, would you choose Phantom over Fire & Ice? Or not really?

Thanks again!

Well, I did not prune my Little QF in September or any other month and it is also sparse bloom-wise. Sounds like F&I will bloom earlier and Phantom will be a bigger shrub. So they would be more different than similar. It would be great if someone growing them in Calgary replied here so you could 'see' both at the same time. F&I pics appeared to be edited to resemble Vanilla Strawberry and maybe steal sales. In person, F&I pinks did not appear to be like VS but, the blooms here aborted in midstream so I never was able to view them thru the whole length of the summer.

luis, when you said that the blooms (of F&I, I assume?) aborted in midstream, did they just dry up before they even reached that supposedly lovely deep red phase in fall? If that is the case, that is one huge strike against the F&I!!!

I honestly wouldn't give too much weight to sick-looking or dying nursery stock. Sometimes they are neglected during shipment or care and are subjected to either extreme conditions and/or disease. Case in point there was a whole rack of new hydrangea at a Walmart the other day (including the recent Free Bird mac) and all plants on the rack had green stems but brown and shriveled leaves, *except* a few of those Good Golly Paniculatas.

Both things happened; but mostly white to brown.

I was visiting the nursery "regularly" that year. With one exception (one plant), bloomage always went white to brown and in that one plant, a few selected blooms went white-green/pinkish and the majority went white to brown. The pink was not a magenta color or pretty pink.

Since our temps had been daily in the 100s by the time this happened, I assumed that this + transplant shock in Year 1 was the issue.

I did not notice dryness in the potting soil. The plants stayed in the nursery thru the following winter unsold and then disappeared before Spring.

I doubt this would occur in Canada Z3 though. Do not forget it was on the plant's year 1 in TX so who knows if the shrubs would adapt at some point and produce better bloomage.

I have heard from someone nearby that had this white-to-brown issue with VS too. I suggested waiting at least 3 years to see if it improves. But I have heard from people in Kansas too so I am concerned that the panic blooms may scorch during our long hot summers.

As a result, I started looking for any early blooming panics and added Little QF to Little Lime so it does not feel alone. :o))

Maybe I should also try Praecox. But you should consider F&I for sure. My seasons are sometimes hostile/bad on hydrangea blooms.

Take a load of this: oakleaf hydrangeas bloomed way early this year. I was around checking them last weekend and the blooms are now turning from white to green up here. Lord, I would bet oakleafs may not be in bloom yet in some northern climates!!! Weird weather this year for sure.

luis, thank you! You know, we have our unique challenges here in Calgary - since the growing season is so short, we get our first frost really early - as early as September/October (!!!) so that may just turn the blooms brown early too... sigh! I will have to pay more attention to this issue.

I so wished that the oakleaf hydrangeas would live up here.....

Anyway, just an update for you - I cannot find the F&I anymore! Oh well, now I am down to Quick Fire, or Phantom. I can find for sure Fire Light (small and expensive though!) here but I don't know if I wanted such small plants for my front yard as they surely grow slowly up here! LOL!

Anyway, let me show you a photo of my front yard here and see what you think would look nice there:

So, the area in question is the area right in front of that concrete below the porch. See how tiny those Pee Gee's are, after 3 years:

You see, that's why I want to replace them with something that would do be more vigorous and be much bigger, so it adds some height at the back of this front yard. It needs to be as high as where the railing is.

It's not a big area at all. It's just over 7 feet wide and 3 feet deep, before it gets to the other perennials there. Mind you, just so that you know, my Quick Fire in the back yard (where it gets full sun) is still only 3 feet tall and just under 3 feet wide, even after 4 years!!! It was bought in a 5 gallon pot, too. That is also with not a lot of pruning at all. So I think that if I go with a Quick Fire here, it would be fine, and I don't need to go with a Little Quick Fire for a smaller size, since this is north facing and gets much less sun than the back.

Given this overall "look" and style of the front yard, would you go with Quick Fire or Phantom? I do plan to plant a couple of them here.

I do worry that Phantom would be too big for this area, even with some significant pruning. Hardly anyone has any experience with Phantom here in Calgary....

If I don't go with hydrangeas, then another option is dwarf Korean lilacs.

So, given this information, what would you recommend please?

Thank you again!

Here's a thread with garden photos of Fire Light & one of Phantom. http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1995566/fire-light-hydrangea-paniculata 

Fire Light's been on my radar since its introduction. Finally came across this at a local farm coop just a week ago. Very fair price of $25 for 3-gallons. Although they weren't budded then, flower buds are rapidly forming in the last two days. Very happy personalities, even without flowers the bushes somehow glow with their ruddy stems well clothed in perky textured leaves.

Another thread on Fire Light with comments by Canadian gardeners who picked them up locally. http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/3291756/hydrangea-fire-light?n=14

Thank you, vasue! These were useful threads.

I have found some 2 or 3 gallon pots of Fire Light locally, but they were mostly in BAD shape.... the only decent ones were surprisingly at Lowe's. They were selling for $34.99 (Canadian). Not cheap at all! I would gladly keep them except that they were rather small plants that are just over a foot tall... hmm....

Well my Phantom has gone from nothing to "some forming blooms" in what seems like a week's time! Quick Fire is in the lead, but not by much. F&I is close behind, followed by Phantom, Great Star, and Pinky Winky.

Thank you, vasue, for the great info!

I looked up the retailers for Proven Winner that you kindly linked me to, and I found that I have actually visited or called pretty all of them here in the Calgary area! LOL! Talking about an obsession here... ha!

It's really interesting because the local garden centres and nurseries have stock that look absolutely horrendous now. Maybe it's because we had such an early start (relatively speaking!) to our season here this year, with a lot of heat and not a lot of moisture. On the other hand, the big box stores like Lowe's, Home Depot and Canadian Tire actually have better stuff now, because they are still arriving regularly - like you said, you have to really watch for new stock at these big box stores, because once you let them sit there for a while, they will be largely neglected and then they will start to look terrible!!!

If the Fire Light that I have got were not so little and expensive, I might just use them now. On the other hand, it's very tempting just to try out Phantom to see how that may look :-)

Quick Fire is a safe bed but I have it at the backyard so it may be good to try something different. I also wonder if I should do something a bit more dramatic in the front yard.... ha! Trust me, this view may just change again tomorrow.... LOL

springwood_gardens, thank you for the really useful information. It's very helpful to hear as to when these shrubs start to bloom! Now, how do you like your Phantom overall? Do you find that to be a bit too large and unrefined, or is it pretty nice in reality? I have read all of these positive reviews, so I can't help but to think that it must be something rather special! :-) I would appreciate your input.

Thanks again everyone!

One always should put the "best" in the front yard... although after hearing from some people in years past that their plants have been stolen from their front yards, I sometimes think hard if I really want to part ways with an expensive nice plant thataway. :o)

You cannot go wrong with the usuals: Pink Diamond, Limelight, Unique, Burgundy Lace, Vanilla Strawberry. I found this on phantom while researching something else in hydrangea.com: "An upright form with dense, conical, mostly sterile flowers in July -
September. Excellent new introduction in this country that "supersedes
’Grandiflora’" according to the RHS trial of Hydrangea paniculata
cultivars. Received their highest rating and an Award of Garden Merit
(AGM). Dr. Dirr: "Spectacularly large (immense) inflorescences. . .am
mightily impressed with the flower quality." Full sun to light shade for
zones 3 - 8. Blooms on new growth of the season."

I bought Phantom about 3 years ago. It quickly doubled in size the first summer and bloomed with heavy heads. It gets quite a bit of sun, but mostly hot afternoon sun. It is now about 7 feet tall and at least that wide (needs a heavy pruning) and I have not noticed any buds yet. A very worthwhile plant indeed.

This photo was in late July, 2014, a year after it was planted.

I'm in Zone 5, Canada.

My Quickfire standard is in the lead in terms of forming flowers, followed by Bobos, Strawberry Sundae and Little Lime ( LL is showing very small broccolis right now).

In addition to those mentioned above, the broccolis on ES Original, T and Shout, and Incrediball are all around the same stage as the Quickfire.

WOW! You guys are the best!!! Thank you!

luis_pr, I had no idea that Dirr said such nice things about Phantom! That is really, really good to know. Thank you!

hc mcdole, thank you for the information and the great photo! This is just great - we can't find such information from the usual website. This kind of plant enthusiast experience is exactly what I need. Thank you! Your Phantom looks quite lovely indeed. BTW, I see that you are in zone 7 - I am in zone 3/4 and since it is a north-facing location, I doubt that mine would get to be 7 feet tall. I would be happy if it gets to be 4 feet tall :-)

starlight99_gw, thank you! I used to be in zone 5 too - now that I am in Calgary, I have said "bye bye" to macrophyllas and I do miss them... oh, and Bobo does not seem to do much in Alberta either... LOL! Oh well... but thank you for your information. It's useful!

OK, so I am going with Phantom now.... thank you everyone!

Well, you could still do macs but it would entail growing them in pots and bringing them inside when they go dormant so I do not know if you want to spend all that energy. Ha! :o))

I bought mine as a 3-gal last year and it's about to pass 3x3'. Sorry for not mentioning that. :P

luis_pr.... I have tried!!! LOL! I had an ES in a pot for the last couple of years.... what a nightmare to take care of her! LOL! So I am just giving up with that idea now....

springwood_gardens, thank you! That is very nice to know. Good info again! thanks.