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cbird02

Prep bare ground for Bermuda

10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago

I have a bare dirt backyard with a sprinkler system in Tucson'AZ. There are no signs of weeds or old grass. The dirt is pretty hard packed and I have been softening up by watering for 10 minutes three times a day for 2 days. I was getting ready to Roto-till tomorrow but I am second guessing now after reading threads here. The thing is it always seems to revolve around old grass and weeds being the issue along with uneven lawn later on. I bought 14 bags of Omni Planting Compost and seed cover from HD. I don't have any starter fertilizer yet. I did an at home ph test that said my soil was at 7.5 fwiw. I am planting under a huge mesquite tree but it has a very open canopy that let's a lot of light through and is heavily trimmed and high branches that let in afternoon sun.


1) Prep recommended?

2) Seed type to be as dense/soft as possible. Choices are: A) Scott's Turf Builders 3-1-0 with Savanah II and fertilizer B) Vigaro Bargusto/Transcontinental C) Pennington mostly Mohawk with some Sultan and Sydney D) Other?

Comments (33)

  • 10 years ago

    I highly recommend you drop sod instead of seed after you're done with the prep work, you'll have much better odds & the possibility of a lawn this year. Bermuda seed is not nearly as reliable as cool weather grass seed like fescue & rye. That said, the Pennington Bermuda triangle looks really nice when it comes in. Nice & dark with a small leaf size. The transcontinental will look good if you plan to mow it higher, but it's a prairie/hay type, so you'll never get it to look green enough down below an inch.

  • 10 years ago

    Can't do sod, I am renting this house. No way I am dropping that kind of money.

  • 10 years ago

    Mix of Princess, Sahara, and Yukon if you can find them.

    Don't rototill, as you have read it will be a headache beginning in about a month and worsening for the next 34 or so. Hard soil can be dealt with in two ways. The easy way to get started is to spray it with 3 ounces per 1,000 square feet with shampoo. Any clear shampoo will work. Spray that and follow it up with 1/2-1 inch of irrigation to wash it down into the soil. In addition, most hard soil is caused by an imbalance of salts like calcium, magnesium, sodium, and potassium. If you get a $25 soil test at Logan Labs and post the results here to this forum, you'll get about $250 worth of free advice on what to apply, when, how to apply, how often, and where to get the materials.

    Is your soil perfectly level now? Check it by pushing your lawn mower across it and see if it bounces. If so then you might want to level it now before the seed goes down. You cannot level with compost, because compost gets consumed by the soil microbes. It has zero long term volume. Assuming your drainage is good and you don't have water backing up against the house and you don't have low spots that hold standing water for days, then you can level it with pure (coarse) sand and a drag (like they use on baseball infields). You can make a drag with some wire fencing or chain link. Sand, drag, and water to settle the sand. Repeat as necessary until it's perfect.

    For a low cost alternative to both sod and seeding, you might be interested in sprigging your lawn. Basically you buy just a few pieces of TIF 419 sod, wash the soil off of it, chop it up with a machete, scatter the chopped pieces around the yard, and dust it with sand to hold the sprigs down. Water it and let bermuda do what it does (come back from the dead). Search this forum for bermuda and sprigging. The idea came to this forum from a guy in Australia who did it successfully.

  • 10 years ago

    If you have access to bermuda sod, you should use it. As reeljake stated, seeding bermuda is tough & you end up with a lesser quality lawn. I seeded my lawn because there are no sod farms within 7+ hour drive on my home - they want $2000 just for delivery. It's day 15 for my lawn & it's patchy, weedy, uneven, looks really bad. It will take a full growing season or 2 before I have a full lawn, then I have to level the soil & correct other stuff. I'm sure that the cost of time, water, and other treatments will exceed my costs of sod (minus the delivery). You should consider talking with the homeowner about a rent reduction in exchange for the lawn renovation (or eat the cost & enjoy an instantly beautiful lawn).

  • 10 years ago

    What they said... And the sod is probably cheaper than you think. I bought the best stuff (supposedly) on the market, celebration brand, and it was half the cost I was expecting. I got it for about $108 per pallet plus $100 for delivery. 419 will cost even less than that. Add up the cost of water, seed & fertilizer, plus redoing it next year, and sod starts to sound real cheap. You could ask the landlord to buy the sod & offer to lay it for him for free.

  • 10 years ago

    Lowes in Tucson sells St. Augustine sod by the piece. 2.66 sq. ft. cost $1.99.

  • 10 years ago

    I am going to modify my desires quickly here. My number one desire for this lawn is to get cover on the dirt so we don't have dogs and kids bringing dirt and mud into the house, which has dark brown cement floors - cleaning nightmare. My second priority is lowest cost possible. I am not looking for the greenest, thickest grass in town. So - I need the best advice based on the fact that I will be seeding and I am renting so I am not so concerned about the long term evenness of the lawn (it is pretty darn flat right now). The landlord is pretty useless so I will leave him out of it too. I do want it to thrive as much as the variety can and will care for it well. Sorry - should have made this clear up front.


    I like where dchall is going. How do you apply the shampoo? Is there a brand name that has a mix of Princess, Sahara, and Yukon or would I order separately and mix it together? Anywhere I can buy those by the lb? - I would hate to have to buy 15 lbs for 1100 sqft.

    If I don't till, could someone outline the prep I should do given the new parameters?

  • 10 years ago

    Princess is usually sold by itself, I've never seen it in a blend but check around at specialty nursery or golf contractor like Ewing or SiteOne. The Pennington triangle blend varies by year, so check the tag on the back of the bag & get the fresh stuff if it has your chosen cultivars. That goes for any seed you buy at a box store. There's plenty of places online to get the good fresh stuff--Hancock seed & seedland are the 2 I see the most. They also sell plugs online, which may be a better choice if you want speedy coverage. Honestly in your situation I might just drop the cheapest landscape mix I could find every few months to get quick coverage. I hate saying that though... Add a few plugs as the budget allows & it'll fill in by next year & crowd out the cheap stuff.

    If you're dedicated to seeding Bermuda, put down a fine soil layer, like 1/4", drop seed on the hot bare dirt & cover it with just enough compost or topsoil to keep it moist. You'll have to water it daily for the next month or so, but you should have plenty of heat for it to thrive. When you start to see the "green mist" you'll have to watch & water carefully--There's a fine line between being too wet getting damp-off fungus & letting it get too dry. Compost tea & worm castings & other things that help to retain moisture will help a lot with moisture swings. Avoid synthetic fertilizer after the initial dose, baby Bermuda burns easily. Good luck to you & update us often!

  • 10 years ago

    I'll add that $20 worth of that St. Augustine sod Brett mentioned would make a great path to the door while the seed fills in the rest of the area. Just something to walk on between door & driveway

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    reeljake - Can you elaborate on "put down a fine soil layer" and if I should put any fertilizer to start(and what fertilizer)?

    I have 14 bags of Omni compost/seed cover. Despite the fact that it is just hard soil, it does kind of have a fine layer on top - maybe from the mesquite dropping leaves and decaying over time. Just the last 2 days of watering have really softened up the soil. should I use one of those push spike aerators maybe?

  • 10 years ago

    A starter fertilizer won't hurt but isn't really necessary. The seed has its own fertilizer stored inside.

    You don't want the seed too deep, it has to be in the top 1/2" of soil to germ properly. 1/4" base at the most if you need it, no more than 1/4" on top of the seed. That thin layer is very important in your dry climate though. The seed will float & get pushed around by the sprinklers otherwise. I used sand to keep the seed in place but I live in a much wetter area. I was also making a chipping/putting green, so it was on a sand base from the start. The spike aerator will be useful before the base layer or after the grass is established, but not while seed is present. You don't want Bermuda seed falling into the holes--That buries them too deep & the soil down there isn't hot enough to germinate them. Above all, be patient! Bermuda seed takes a while.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I was thinking more about just breaking up the soil a bit like what a tiller does, but much shallower. Not necessary?

    This is a backyard, doesn't back to any house surface. The landlord paid the sprinkler guy to seed the front. He seemed to break up the soil with some kind of a hand pushed tool with blades on it. I didn't get a good look at it. Then he seeded and put compost over it. It has been about 10 days and the stuff has exploded out of the ground. I have 2 inch shoots in my front yard already.

  • 10 years ago

    Using one of those to break up the soil won't hurt, I'd probably do it if you have the tool laying around. If he had that much success with seed, I'd do exactly what he did. He probably used a different seed like rye or landscaper mix, but if it works don't knock it.

  • 10 years ago

    I hope its not Rye! That would die quickly with the heat coming on wouldn't it?

  • 10 years ago

    Probably, but not sure what else could put up a 2 inch shoot within 10 days of germination

  • 10 years ago

    Probably, but not sure what else could put up a 2 inch shoot within 10 days of germination.

    Both Speedway and Bullseye fescues did that in my seed trial. Germination around day 4, 2-3 inches by day 10.

  • 10 years ago

    Well there you go. Fescue in AZ seems crazy, but again, could be part of a cheap landscaper mix

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Ugh, so this guy goes and plants Pennington Sun and Shade. I am waiting for a picture of the sticker for variety, but I think it is Rye, Fescue and Bluegrass. In Tucson, AZ! It is going to be 113 degrees on Sunday. This stuff is growing great for now, but what can I expect this to do? I am thinking I will have to intervene and tell the landlord what needs to happen. I need some advice! thank you all

    btw - It is unbelievable that Home Depot even sells this in Tucson in the summer season

  • 10 years ago

    what can I expect this to do?


    You can expect it to look really good in a couple of weeks. It will be nice and green as long as it gets water. Then you can can expect lots of brown stuff.


    I would suspect that this landlord really has only dealt with tenants who didn't care about the lawn, so this is his normal mo. You really can't sod now without getting his permission & possibly pissing him off because he paid someone to "fix" the problem. This could go downhill really quickly depending on how he takes what you say. I own rental property and I let the tenants do what they want as far as upgrades/improvements. They take pride in the property and it works out very well all around.

  • 10 years ago

    Sod is out of the question. Is there any way to fix it with the correct seed?(bermuda) What would the process be?

  • 10 years ago

    The process with bermuda seed is to prep the ground just like was done for the other stuff, then spread the seed. But the big difference would be the results you get.


    My bermuda was planted on June 1. It looks horrible to most people who have seen it. Of course they are used to seeing rye/fescue/bluegrass blends growing. So they are accustomed to the growth pattern of cool season grasses, not this stuff. When this matures a little more it will fill in nicely.


  • 10 years ago

    That's coming in nicely hawksster! It'll be looking good by the fall with all that sun & heat!

    Cbird, I would prep the way the front was done & hawksster's timeline is about what you should expect. As they say "the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is now". Get that seed down ASAP

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Ok, I meant do I need to do anything with the existing seed that is sprouting that he already laid out?

  • 10 years ago

    I don't think there's anything you can do for it--It's not long for this world & the landlord will probably get ticked off at the guy who did it, so I'd stay clear of that if possible & concentrate on doing the back the right way.

  • 10 years ago

    @ cbird02 I think I may have misinterpreted something. To clarify, are you saying that now the backyard has also been seeded the same way as the front? If that is the case I don't' know that seeding the bermuda will work with the faster growing grasses shading it out (dc & reeljake can provide more insight).

    If the backyard has not been touched then go ahead & seed the bermuda.

  • 10 years ago

    Yes Hawk, I am going to seed back. I am wondering what to do about the wrong seed he put in. Would it have to be scraped or something before the roots get etablished?

  • 10 years ago

    This is a little confusing. What I am reading is that the landlord planted a blend of probably rye/fescue in the FRONT yard, and left the back yard bare earth. Cbird wants to seed bermuda in the BACK yard, but is now considering how to fix the "soon to be dead" grass in the front yard. She's wondering if she needs to get rid of the rye/fescue before it matures, so that it might be more difficult to get rid of later. Is that a correct summary?

    If your landlord is difficult to deal with, I'd let him know the grass is going to die and does he want you to plant bermuda like you are planning to do in the back yard? If you tamper with the new grass without his approval he might accuse you of killing it.


  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Nah, that's why I wanted more clarity. The landlord had the guy return & he also seeded the backyard with the same grass mix.

    Now the front & the back are seeded. The front has grown several inches. The back is fresh seed. Cbird wants to know how to deal with the fresh seeded area in the backyard.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Danielj hit it on the head, word for word. I am not going to tamper with the grass without him knowing. I am going to let him know what is going to happen if we don't reseed it. So what to do with the Rye Fescue HGB currently having a run at life?

  • 10 years ago

    If the owner gives you his blessing to do what you want I stand by my 1st post, sod. Kill the front with Roundup then sod both areas.

    Having started my lawn with bermuda seed I am very hesitant to encourage people to seed bermuda. I only did it because there was no other option. If you seed bermuda it could easily be 60-90 days before you have a useable lawn.

  • 10 years ago

    What brand and variety did you use?

  • 10 years ago

    I used Yukon. I talked with sod farms in Southern California when it became apparent that I would not be able to get St Augustine or bermuda sod. A couple recommended that I try Yukon & supported me using Hancock. I verified their BBB rating & researched the company. The sod farmers believed that there would EVENTUALLY be little difference that most anyone could tell in my seeded lawn versus a sodded lawn. The caveats were the time & effort it would take to get there. They were clear that it would take 1-2 growing seasons to get a good looking lawn. They were clear that the recommendations suggested by folks on these forums needed to be followed & I invest heavily in improving my soil.

    If I had access to sod I would have done it. I still would do it now if it were available. I have started grass from seed before at different properties, but never bermuda. This is a completely different animal. Unless you are committed to not using your lawn for a good chunk of time, it's not worth it imho.



  • 10 years ago

    Is it illegal for me to overnight you some celebration Bermuda plugs? Probably...

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