Live_wire_oak-- I was under the impression there is no GC. Homeowner hired tile sub directly, right? Otherwise I would agree it's the GC's job to catch stuff like this.

The HO has assumed the roll of the GC, but is not willing to accept what goes along with that responsibility.

D Shula, the problem is that each person did their jobs and nothing more. The tile salesperson sold you the tile you chose. The installer installed the tile you gave them. The result was aesthetically problematic. In my view, the only person you can possibly pursue action against is the manufacturer if the product was misrepresented. Unfortunately, they are unlikely to take responsibility for anything more than maybe providing you with replacement tile. I.e., there's no way they're going to pay for demo and reinstallation.

It does sound like it could be a manufacturing vs. installation issue because a tile installer would not typically volunteer that they noticed the zipper effect if they believed it was due to their own poor installation. To clarify, did the tile installation company order the tile on your behalf or did you order it independently from elsewhere and give it to the tile installation company to install? Also, have you signed off on the installation? I think that makes a difference.

That looks like one possibility to me as well:

more spacing and therefore whiter/wider grout line (installation issue)

variation in adhesion material on back of tile (installation issue)

uneven surface prior to installation (prep. issue)

variation in tile depth (manufacturer's issue)

Agree with Grover, there should be much greater randomness of the edges of the tiles on the sheets attached to the mesh. No matter how the tile is installed, the zippering would be obvious. Don't know who's at fault, but the problem is in the manufacturing. Tiles along the ends of the sheets should have a greater stagger.

Some mosaic has little variation at the edges.

Yes, it is the fault of the GC. You probably have a lot of other situations where you don't know what you don't know. But, that's the role you chose. You have to take the lumps in the sugar bowl, because that is your JOB. You own the screw ups that are the result of finger pointing. You don't have any leverage over one off jobs to use for anything to your advantage. You get to order more tile and pay for it to be installed, because that is what you signed up for when you signed up to be the boss. The buck stops with you. If you have a problem with the tiler, you do what any other GC would do. You don't use him again.

Elle- I would suggest that there is less variation at the edges in your example because the tiles are short and regularly spaced. Patterns having many longer individual tiles and a more irregular arrangement would require a greater stagger at the edge.

This happened to me, almost. Mine was a narrower accent strip, but the tilers were telling me that it won't work. I told them that they will, but you have to flip the next tile in the row upside down...

I should not have had to do this. They should have known.

It's interesting in these problems who is at fault, though. It's sad that it's you that has to go through it. I don't get how, if something is obviously off, they don't tell you before proceeding...people should know that you need a good reputation in order to stay in business...

D Shula, I think you are trying hard to blame the installer for what happened. He is the easiest one to blame. The way he installed it is the standard way of installing a 12x12 sheets that interlock together. The tile shop that sold it is the middle man and they deal with hundreds of designs. The bottom line is, the tile is badly designed and there is no way to install it correctly. It was going to look bad regardless of how you install it. You need to find resolution to the problem with the manufacturer.

I see a few sides of this unfortunate installation. As many people have said there are a few parties at fault so pointing the blame on a single party is impossible and quite frankly may solve nothing. I think that the installation and contracting are the two things that seem to be faulty. When I contract out tile work or am doing it myself I go over every detail with the homeowner before further progress is made... one time is all it takes to realize communication is key. I have seen many "pros" with no sense of design so they will overlook something as simple as this zipper problem. That is where the GC or in your case homeowner needs to be very observant. I have seen it happen again and again homeowners being their own GC to save money and don't realize the extent of babysitting some "pros" require and that in reality it is often cheaper to have a trusted GC who will correct all these issues before they become the homeowners headache. My suggestion would be to try and come to a mutual solution to this problem that will probably require both you and the tile contractor to give a little. The tile contractor needs to provide customer service and there is a median and unfortunately we all loose some money on jobs at some point.

Good Luck!

Am I missing something here ? Looks like installer installed straight seam inline instead of off setting the courses to minimize that effect

The contractor hired the installer. He is responsible. It looks terrible. He needs to redo!

The homeowner is the contractor.

Staggered, inline, touching or with a grout joint, no matter how you install that tilt it was going to look bad and you cannot hide the zipper effect. And actually staggering the tiles on a backsplash was going to even look worse because with an 18" high backsplash you will need one and half tile along the height of the backsplash so the zipper effect was going to look like 12" joint staggered with a 6" joint. The only way this tile would have looked DECENT NOT GREAT if the installer cut each sheet in half and staggered the 6" high pieces to get an allover effect of a brick backsplash!!!!!!! Go after the manufacturer.

If you don't know enough to perform quality control on a job site, then perhaps you are not actually suited to being the GC on the job. That title is earned, and not just by scheduling trades and standing back washing your hands of the outcome. The primary role of a GC is understanding the jobs being done well enough so as to perform quality control, and to perform mediation between conflicting priorities of the trades.

Out of curiosity- to those faulting homeowner for not hiring a GC on this job, are you or are you aware of a GC who would take a job as small as just replacing a backsplash? In my area I have had difficulty getting a GC interested in small jobs like this since more money is to be made in larger projects.

It's not a small job. It's a whole house. And this is just one issue that the self GC knows about. There are indubitably others that escaped attention because they aren't as sexy as a backsplash.

FYI, tile setters are not a licensed trade. They have no license requirement.

And GC's are at risk to lose a great deal of money (and sometimes we do), particularly in the remodel business vs new build. There is no way that a tile setter is going to abut pieces of tile without grout in between them. You may think it looks better, but there is no standard in the industry for that and it should not be done unless the tile manufacturer specs it for their product. The next time he sets that tile and does it the way you think looks better, some other homeowner is going to scream and whine about it not being right - it becomes a lose/lose. At least if the tile setter follows normal installation standards, there is something to fall back on.

That is why work is to be supervised and there can be no assumption that everyone else understands what you think you want. There are issues with every mesh mounted tile that I have ever seen. It is not as easy as folks that have never tried it think. And what may be visible after grouting is not always noticeable before.

"I don't negotiate with terrorists."

I understand you are upset, but I would take more care with the words you choose, especially if you post things like this with specific individuals or companies.

They are not trying to invoke terror. If they were, they wouldn't just take steps on recovering monies from unpaid services, but actually threaten your life and family through phone calls and visits to your home and work. This isn't the case.

You might want to be around for major installations next time, or not, if you want to keep going through this.

D Shula, even though you haven't paid, did you sign off on the installation once completed or not? And you purchased the tile on your own from somewhere other than the installer's company, correct? I agree the situation is frustrating but I see the issues and outcomes as relatively straightforward.

Just read Soho's disclaimer which is probably standard for the industry. Guess they are off the hook for this one.

.

Claims: Purchasers understand that all tile is subject to variations in technical specifications. Additionally, purchasers acknowledge that they will inspect and accept shipments with the full knowledge and understanding that any claims concerning the acceptability of the product must be presented to Soho Studio Corp and resolved prior to its installation.

Flopsycat1, we can't even get a tile manufacturer to stand behind their products against lippage. If we place a special order for large format tile and call the manufacturer in advance, they tell us it can't be returned if we find that the tile cannot be installed for the intended use - even if we catch it before installation and try to return it. "Special order tile is not returnable" is the standard. It is a difficult business, to say the least.

Installation constitutes acceptance in any instance in the industry. The time to head off problems was on the front end, when you inspected the tile and did a dry lay. You are acting as the designer and GC on this project, and you own the details. If the details aren't right, then you either weren't specific enough in your design instructions as the designer, or your overseeing of your subcontractors was inadequate as the GC.

The contractor will end up having the lien upheld. Start planning on what you are going to do when that happens.

D Shula,

I actually am a lawyer. The whole lien issue is going to depend on your jurisdiction. The contractor may not actually pursue a mechanic's lien, depending on how difficult it is to perfect where you live. If you try to resolve this matter in small claims court (and I'm not recommending that), just be sure to include all three parties (manufacturer, seller, and installer) as defendants. That way when one person tries to blame the other, you have that person there to answer. I'm not optimistic for you, but best of luck!

Hello D Shula, I still do not think this situation can move forward until it is finalized whether there is an objective issue with the tile manufacturing, the tile installation, both, or neither. I do not think the current combination of claiming the apparent zipper effect and that the tile installer should have called you when noticing it are enough to package together with a level of specificity and substance to strongly argue that the manufacturer, seller, or the installer is responsible. Without objective conclusions about the product and the installation, I think it will be difficult or impossible to move this situation out of its currently stalled position. While you were in the general oversight role, that is less relevant if the product or installation did not objectively meet specs. so I cannot imagine a reason why you would not nail that down first. The manufacturer, seller, and installer are not going to give you that so I think you need to get third-party expert opinions. On one end of the spectrum of outcomes, the product and installation met criteria and it is simply regrettable you were not present to see and stop the process based on your subjective preferences. On the opposite end of the spectrum, there are objective issues with the both the product and the installation. At this point, it is unclear where you are on the spectrum so I think you need more objective information to back up your position. Good luck!

This looks nice now! You did a nice job fixing it. For what it’s worth, I had to fire my structural engineer when he provided inadequate details for the permit and refused to revise his work. He was asking for my contractors to tell him what to do (they know his work was bad, but they aren’t licensed and insured to do the structural work). The county had a 3 page barf fest checklist with revisions (things like, specify tie-ins to stem wall, bolts, etc). I had to eat his costs and hire a new engineer to redo the files. I can’t imagine a GC putting up with an engineer like this either (although my architect hired him). In my situation, the best thing was to get this guy replaced with someone competent before he did anymore damage. I’ve saved so much money on this renovation by being my own GC. It’s literally 50% - I could afford to redo the kitchen again for the money I saved.