Ifoco- does the Miele really do a better job than the Jura? I'd love to have a super automatic but I use almond milk. I'm under the impression that a manual frother does a better job (when you grind your own beans and tamp and hold the cup while steaming).

At the showroom they serve Illy coffee, so for demo purposes it should taste good to sell the machine, lol. Ifoco the machine sounds like my car! I'm probably more like you, I'm not a coffee "snob" nor is hubby - all he wants is a cup of regular coffee with creamer - but tired of the daily drudge of filling water, making coffee, etc.. We currently are on our 4th Keurig and tired of storing little plastic cups and adding to the landfill. Don't like filling the reusable Keurig cup, it's like the old drip basket - messy. I still have time to buy a different machine that could possibly be plumbed for that space - could put a counter even - but I like the looks of the built in and the convenience factor.

Ifoco, how often are you finding you need to clean your parts in the DW? You know the tray and trash bin?

Building for the cats and divotdiva2,

Will try to address both of your posts at the same time

Yes, I think the Miele makes better coffee than the Jura. The coffee tastes better and it foams better. When we used the Jura we found 1% milk to foam better than whole or 2%. Presently I'm buying 2% for the Miele and it foams quite well. I buy a jug of milk which is used for other things as well so I prefer 2% if possible.

When we lived in France - mid 70's was when I got turned on to espresso. Fresh milk was outrageously expensive and often not available. French kids didn't drink much milk then and probably not now. The French used a packaged milk which came in 1 liter boxes; quite advanced for that time I think. It tasted odd to someone who was used to regular whole fresh cow milk. It tasted a bit like evapurated milk. Our son hated it but got used to it. I would buy a case at a time as it had a long shelf life didn;t need to be refrigerated until opened. That's the kind of milk they used at cafes when you ordered cafe au lait and it foamed well as I recall. Perhaps hand foaming will make soy or almon milk work in the same fashiion since they come in those kinds of packaged containers. Upon our return stateside, I purchased a Gaggia manual machine. It made great espresso but you had to grind the beans just so, tamp the coffee in the do hickey just right. The foaming could be done on the side with steam and worked quite well.

When the Jura crapped out again for the 4th time, we talked about getting a pod machine but decided we didn't want that for a variety of reasons. We even discussed just going back to a regular drip maker. While I'm not a coffee snob, I do enjoy an espresso and my husband likes cappucino daily. So I bought the Miele.

The water reservoir is much smaller than the Jura; so is the refuse container and the milk container. I just rinse and wash the refuse containers by hand, not a big deal. The refuse container needs to be emptied at least once a day and frequently more often. We do drink a lot of coffee at one sitting.

Here's my take on why coffee tastes better with the Miele. The machine heats and reheats before each coffee selection. I guess the temperature for the milk and the water for the espresso is always perfect. It takes time and can get to be annoying. The fact that the machine is constantly (seems that way) rinsing probably aids in a better taste. The Jura does a premoistening or it could be a rinsing and a fair amount of water runs into your cup right before the coffe is made thereby diluting the cup. The Miele has more crema when you make espresso.

Taste is of course very personal. What tastes good to me, may not to you. Either machine makes better coffee than a pod machine or a drip maker or a french press in my opinion. If I had the space for a built in that could be plumbed, I would definitely go that way.

Just rereading this long post definitely makes me sound like a coffee snob :))

Inga

We have had a Miele coffee machine since December 2014 and have only used it with soy milk (Pacific Soy Barista Series.) It does a good job foaming it and have had no issues with build up, etc.

We follow the regular cleaning process with the Miele cleaning agent.

wow thanks for the detailed answer, Inga. Very helpful. Yes, leaning for the plumbed Miele although it will cost us more to get the drain in. So don't want to spend for that and be disappointed. That's why I mentioned we could buy a different brand and just use the water line/drain.

Jeewan, good to know on the soy milk. Soy isn't my usual choice (really I prefer regular milk and the occasional carbs I could live with). We've owned a small espresso machine with a good frothing wand but only I used it - too much work for DH. I guess I will sell it as I know it is still functional or take it to the office.

I am entering at the end of a discussion, but when we were planning our kitchen reno, we had coffee from a Meile coffee maker they were very impressed with at the place we ordered out appliances. Neither DH nor I were impressed with the coffee. I know I didn't finish mine and I don't think he did his.

We had then and have now a Jura. We had an S7 that is now with our son at grad school and have upgraded ours to a Z9. The beans have changed over the years, but we've been very happy with the machines for straight espresso and milk drinks. I do think the Z9 has a thicker crema than the older machine. I have not used nut milks with them though. The place I've ordered filters for the Jura from has started selling the Z9 refurbished for about half the list price. Our first machine was a refurbished and it's still going strong, more that 10 years later.

I am not knocking the Meile; I have no idea what kind of beans they were using or how well the machine was maintained. I would just try to sample as many as you can, which is not always easy, and not write off the Juras. Sur la Table has the Jura machines and does sampling if you have one near.

lascatx is the Z9 plumbed ?

No, ours is not plumbed and it doesn't appear it is one that has that option. It has a 96 oz (3 qt) water tank though. You can remove the tank and take it to the faucet or we often use a large bottle and pour the water in. For DH and I, that probably averages once or twice a week.

The idea of having a plumbed machine didn't appeal enough to me to overcome the limitation of choices, commitment to a particular unit and lack of a uniform size and the potential for water leaks in a spot that would be hard to see or get to for repair. I think what we wound up wit worked even better for us. We put a hutch in our breakfast room with fridge drawers in the center bottom so milk and juice are there where we make coffee and tea). We have drawers for bread, cereal and snacks on the sides and glass and cup storage above. The Z9 sits on the counter. Everything we need for breakfast and beverage service is right there -- and there is a counter for additional cups and items -- a place to set a brewed cup and sprinkle on cocoa or cinnamon, make tea or hot chocolate. It makes me wonder how those units plumed into wall cabinet spaces would really work.

Jura does have a few units that can be plumbed. I'm not familiar with them. but we own 3 Jura units, all in operation, and I'm a fan. We've had many family events and entertained a good bit over the years and never had a complaint. In fact, I have a couple of family members who go quickly to the Jura and ask for help or permission to brew their own. One of our justifications or the Z9 was that it would be easier for our guests to engage in self-help.

I have the Miele built in. Have never used the frothing feature. But I do use filtered water and mine is not plumbed. Love this machine and the coffee! It has more than paid for itself in the two years I have owned it.

just wanted to chime in in case anyone had the same question- i called miele customer service the other day and the plumbed in coffee system does in fact accept almond milk. just rinse as you would after regular milk. we just started using it and it seems fine.

We have the Miele built in coffee maker, never used it to foam milk but I do use "oily" beans and no issues whatsoever. It's one of my favorite appliances.

Same here :)

It does require a lot of maintenance, and will not let you skip it - if it needs the milk pipes cleaned (once a week), no more coffee with milk until the pipes are cleaned. The same goes for descale - no coffee until you descale.

For me this is a good thing, I'd use to ignore the descale message on my old coffee maker for weeks sometimes. But sometimes you just want a cup of coffee first thing in the morning, not to clean the milk pipes :)

Also, worth mentioning, our first unit had a problem and would not froth the milk. Miele techs came 3 or four times, replaced some parts but the problem persisted. After about one year I put my foot down and said no more servicing, I want a replacement (it was still under warranty). So they did replace it and I've had the new machine for a little over one year. Happy to report that coffee tastes great, milk froths properly and we've had no more problems.

We also love ours. We made fun of them in the appliance store. "3k for a coffee maker? !" But we tried the coffee and were sold. It is our fave part of the reno. Maintenance is extensive. There are pieces that need to be cleaned once a week and others once a month but it's become part of our routine and no big deal. Oh but we don't use oily beans. I called miele early on and they told me just use regular 8 o clock coffee. It makes a great cup of coffee. We've tried other organic specialty brands but always go back to 8 o clock. Illy is awesome and recommended by miele but too expensive for the amount of coffee we drink.

agk2003!!!

Miele told me it does a terrible job with almond milk! I'm so glad I just saw this so I can call them again. We are close to our our deadline to add one. I've been planning for a manual espresso machines w frother only because that is what I've been told I need for almond milk.

please le us know what they say Buildingforthecats (we are building for the dogs!) Mine is ordered and in the warehouse awaiting the remodel. Won't be able to use it until around May (or later). I'm so tired of arguing with contractors regarding the plumbing line and drain for this and my CSO.

omg! ok i just called to confirm with customer service that almond milk was ok and they hemmed a bit and said probably but it should be unsweetened. we use the unsweetened. but she said to rinse it more often. we hit rinse milk lines as soon as the coffee is made so that's not an issue. then i asked if she meant we should clean the milk lines more often, which the unit already requires once a week and she said probably. but i think that's overkill. i don't know, when i called the other day they said yes right away without thought. now i'm wondering. we'll probably still do it since we have the 5 year protection plan and if we're hitting rinse as soon as the coffee's made i can't imagine an issue. i also sent a written inquiry through their website so hopefully i can get something in writing.

I will probably talk to some people later this week, but in the meantime, talk to someone at a showroom, or better yet, bring your almond milk.. they told me it does a terrible job with almond milk.. so I just want to make sure that even if it's allowed, that you'll like the result. I never tried but maybe I should too!!

ok just got a response from miele:

Hi Anna,

Good afternoon! Thank you very much for
emailing the center with your coffee system inquiry. Yes, you can use
almond milk with the coffee system but be sure to use almond milk that
is
unsweetened. That is crucial!

Please let me know if you have any other
questions regarding your coffee system! If you need to purchase any
cleaning supplies including tabs for descaling or degreasing, please let
me know as well!

Mandy Saffer
Manhattan Center Associate

Manhattan Experience Center

150 East 58th Street, 9th Floor

New York, NY 10155
www.mieleusa.com

Phone 800-843-7231 ext. 2425

Fax 212-308-0809

Thank you - good to know! I use almond creamer but have been scared to use the almond milk to froth.

Hi! Does the Miele coffee maker do well with cream? Thank you!

muttsbark, maybe someone else here will know. As I write this our unit is installed in the cabinet awaiting the electricians. Goodness I started this thread last July!! The manual says to use whole milk as it froths better due to fat content. One would tend to think that cream would ok but you might not want a lot of cream in your cup.... maybe one of the folks here who have already used it know if there is a selection on the menu that just uses a spot of milk (or cream)

Does anyone know the difference between the CVA6405 and the CVA6805 models? There's about a $400 difference between the two and I can't figure out why one is more expensive than the other. Thank you!

The controls are different, the more expensive is mtouch which has controls similar to a smartphone or tablet.

ah, makes sense. Thank you so much!

We are going to install a whole house water softener that should hopefully increase longevity of the coffee maker and the steam combi along with my faucets. lintvar85, I'm sure you are correct about "too pure" as the manual for the Miele coffee maker states not to use RO water - they claim it will damage the machine. I don't know how but could be RO water leans toward the acidic side of the scale.

Can someone here tell me if their coffee/espresso brewed in Miele CVA6805 is hot enough for you? I just had mine installed yesterday 2/6/2108 and I found that the drinks are not hot enough for me. I set all drink options to Maximum temperature and I still had to microwave my drinks.

Hi Sandy, I'm having the same issue with my same model Miele. Any resolution? thank you.

Reading the posts for using different milk products has been very helpful. We are 10 months in with our miele fully plumbed coffee system. It is fantastic.

We put in a whole house water softener system to help with this appliance and the pellet ice machine. if you live in an area with hard water, the softened water will pay for itself keeping the other appliances from scaling up.

Back To the milk question. Has anyone used heavy cream or half and half in the Miele?

We recently bought a Miele coffee maker and have had alot of trouble with it! We bought the Miele 6805 (plumbed version) about 1 month ago and are already on our 2nd one and having the same issue with the new unit.

The 1st Miele didn't foam milk properly right from the beginning. We had a technician out - he updated the software (which I thought was odd - as it was a brand new system), made a few adjustments and voila - milk was foaming. But our happiness was short lived as it stopped foaming again later that day and then altogether turned itself off the next day.

Miele replaced the unit as I did not want them to try to "fix" a brand new machine again.

We've had the new unit for about 2 weeks and still having issues with the milk not foaming with any consistency. We are using 2% milk as the installer specifically recommended and sometimes it works but most of the time - little or no foam and the milk is tepid in temperature (even though its been set to maximum temperature).

So far, I'm super frustrated as this machine is not performing "as advertised". Their customer service has been decent but I'm tired of calling their 1-800 # and taking days off to be there for a technician and /or installer.

I'm currently waiting to hear back from Miele Canada's Regional Manager, Derek to see what they recommend next. Last resort will be pulling this unit out and going with a different company which would be annoying as the space is the exact specs for this machine so not even sure if another machine would fit that space.

I'm hoping Miele will surprise me with a permanent fix to this issue; however at this time, my advice to anyone thinking about buying a Miele coffee maker is to do your research about this (very expensive) appliance. If you decide to buy a Miele coffee maker - get the 10 yr warranty and be prepared to take time off work so you can let the repair person in.

I'm trying to stay optimistic - will keep you updated when problem is resolved.

I am having the same issues. I purchased in dec 2015. replaced it in feb 2016, then it was in and out of the shop about 4-5 times since then. the last stint, it was in the shop for over 9 months. and again for another 3. they have no been able to fix it. it is officially a piece of junk. now the miele rep said they cannot help me. what a crock of crap. I will post in every forum not to buy if i do not get help

I never use the milk attachment because I do not appreciate being yelled at before I’m fully awake: The machine blares out noises before you can finish a cup of coffee to let you know to rinse the blamed thing ... (Yap, yap, yap!) I add a little cream from the refrigerator so I don’t have to hear it.

Seriously, the blaring messages about how it’s time for me to buy it more of Miele’s expensive milk pipe cleaning agent get on my one nerve. In other words, shut up, coffee machine!

My other complaint is how it insists on warning me to clean or degrease it 200 capfuls before it is warranted ... makes me think the company REALLY wants to annoy me into buying as much of their overpriced cleaning products as possible.

My final thought is: There’s enough nagging in the world without being yelped at by an appliance!

any automated grinder/coffee maker will be higher maintenance. The bean grinds and dust can get all over and harden into concrete if you dont follow maintenance. Drip coffee makes just dump water through grinds - nothing to break besides the water heater

the coffee is very good, you just have to decide if the "wow" factor in the design is worth the money

Yes ... and I do maintain ours very well. I still do not like the constant reminders, and the sound effects are seriously unnecessary.

We got our machine installed in November and I have been using organic half and half in the milk dispenser. It seems to froth it fine. I generally just put a bit of frothed half & half on my espresso. Hope that helps.

Um

Does anyone here have an answer to the Miele CM series inability to produce hot milk drinks. even at the Maximum Temperature setting.

They are never going to be blazing hot, especially if you are using foamed milk Water is one thing to heat Milk is another as the air reduces temp even with the steam

That makes sense, but my milk-based drinks are ’warm’, certainly not even ’hot’. I have ordered very few such drinks, over the years, at coffee shops, so don’t recall the temperature. Do you know if this is s common issue commercially?

When I first had my machine installed (3.5 yrs ago, roughly) I wasn't happy with the drink temperature. I had Miele come out and service the machine. The technician was able to increase the drink temperature through his diagnostic computer that he hooks up to the system. It improved things slightly, but the biggest difference has been from using a well pre-heated mug. The technician said it was now set on the highest temperature setting. I agree - warm, but not hot for sure. The technician said that it is as hot as the machine is capable of producing.

Thanks, that is helpful.

InterestInteresting that Miele does not recommend alternative milks that may have sugar. The thing is, cows milk has sugar as well 8oz has 12 grams of sugar. Who lnows

they probably universally say nothing but cows milk There are now so many different types of alternate milk on the market. Who would know what the customer has in their hand and what is actually in it? Certainly milk fat is a problem - it doesnt take much to clog the aerator. Guess that sugar is also up there

the milk frother in the Miele has to be immaculately clean for it to work correctly. With some unusual new "milk" type going through the tubes (and not really getting clean) all sorts of issues can occur . "You told me that it was ok" would be a common refrain and then an argument about service would ensue .

My plumbed machine has been in use for about 3 months. I closely follow all the many maintenance and cleaning requirements. After about six weeks, though, the milk valve cleaning brush looked like this.

Which I think is unacceptable. I called Miele support and of course they directed me to the Miele store where I could purchase another brush. Except the new brush sells for the outrageous price of $25.35. After complaining to support they ghosted me. A bit of internet searching finally got me to Kleenteeth.com and this:

It's longer than the typical interdental brush, so works perfectly in cleaning the milk valve. So at about $2 per brush (which incudes the shipping) I'm way ahead of Miele's 'offer'.

The Miele service tech who was at my house agreed that the brushes are totally garbage. I’ve tried ordering various brushes from Amazon but gave up because they were all too large. So you have tested the 2.5mm brush and it worked? The international shipping (to Canada) is about $15, so I’d like to be sure it will work.

Yes, it’ll do the job — exactly like the original. The 2.5mm brush looks to be identical in size to what’s left of the Miele brush and even with $15 shipping you’re way ahead since you’ll have 6 brushes.

To clarify — the bristles of the 2.5mm brush are the same. The length of the thing is about 3” which is long enough to ”bottom out” when inserted into the valve. And to further clarify, these brushes may not last any longer than the Miele brushes but at about a buck a brush (plus shipping), they're a much better buy.

Thanks - off to place an order!

how about half and half???

can I use it? or is too dense ?