Marica, See my seedlings in 100% pumice post. It drains well, never soggy. Here I can water every other day, no problem. The ones shown are growing indoors under lights and I can water daily without fear of rot. After checking the substrate I found it still had some moisture after 3 days.

If I were you I would get rid of the coir powder and potting mix and use just coconut coir with 50% grit.

Good luck, Joe

I use 50/50 cactus mix and perlite and it dreains really well and retains moisture.

Marica. The pot is too big for the soil mix. Check my pot with soil mix

Exactly on point, Stuart!

Marica, as with any other plant, the correct size pot is important. Too large = excessive soil without enough of a root system to uptake = high likelihood for rot / damping off.

Stuart's is a germination pot. They come even smaller, the size of a plug. I use egg cartons (w/holes punched on the bottom of each cell) to germinate single seeds in their individual cells. Just so you have an idea, my seedlings remain there for a full month before transplanting, without the roots touching bottom or filling the cell. At first, I dribble water atop the seeds using my hand. At 2 weeks, they get sprayed with a hose. They are also in full sun .. they can take it, no problem! I begin feeding at 1 month, after transplanting (to yogurt cups).

These are almost 2 weeks old, germinated on 7/30 & 7/31:

Hope that helps.

- Maria Elena

I always think of the pot size for older trees. It makes sense to think of it when a seedling. Thanks and i will adjust my soil mix.

Sorry to hijack your post Marica - I'm also about to start planting my "community seeds" - first time grower. I like the idea of egg cartons and yoghurt cups Maria Elena :-) - what soil are you using? cactus and perlite? How do I prepare it before I put the seeds in?

Thanks Dianne (Melbourne, Australia) 11

I changed the soil to coir, I was thinking when I put it in the right size pot should I add Zeolite (Happy cat little)? It is what I have. The other mix was packed around the seedling. The seedling is bent from the root touching the bottom of the deli tray. Being in the bigger pot it grew a lot of fine roots I have to get some yogurt cups. Can I start the community grow out seeds in them? They run from 3oz ti 6oz. Do I soak the seeds in plain water or add root hormone? Which is better constant heat (DVR) with about an hour of filtered sun. Covered or uncoverd with baggie. Or move them to partial sun then full sun during the day. It has been 99 in the shade with 13% Humidity. House is 74

I really kill seedlings so this is stressful to start, but fun. Thanks for your help

Gill, This time I used the covered deli tray and as i said the seedlings that made it all went to the bottom with the root bending. So how deep of a container to start seeds. Stuart's look about 2" tall. The egg carton is not as deep as the deli tray. maybe I need more dirt in the tray. Or should I not worry about the roots going down to the bottom and bending in just a couple of days?

I know I have to figure out how to keep steady moisture without soggy.

I will stick with the coir for now. Unless someone say's other wise. It doesn't compress around the seedling.

Should be an interesting grow out.

Hi,

I posted yesterday morning in response to Dianne but that comment disappeared ... My apologies, Dianne.

Gill, thank you. Yes, I use 50/50 cactus mix & perlite. Just put in a bag & shake to mix well. Be careful not to breathe in any perlite dust.

To use an egg carton, punch a hole at the bottom of each cell, cut off the top to use as a drip tray ... but never allow water to sit there. Fill the egg carton using a plastic spoon to lightly compact smooth, dampen the soil, lay 1 seed horizontally in each cell, sprinkle more soil on top to cover (not bury) each seed, and water again. The seeds are surface sown but should not be visible.

Keep in your warmest room and away from cold air. The reason why adenium are surface sown is because the seeds need light to germinate. They don't have to be under full sun but the heat & light of warm sunlight on a sunny window sill will trigger germination. Bottom heat is very beneficial; insulate from the cold. Seed should germinate within 14 days, and as early as 3 days.

Good luck with your project.

- Maria Elena

Marica,

I know you've had issues with germination and see it's created a lot of stress for you on this topic.

First I want to address the seedling you have in the deli tray. How old is that seedling? I now have over 30 seedlings and can honestly say the roots never filled the cell of an egg carton in the full month they remained there ... and certainly never reached the bottom of the cell.

When I sowed my first 12 seeds, 9 never germinated. Why? Because I followed advice that was not appropriate for my region. I covered them ... and cooked them. They also remained soggy.

My point is you have to do what works for your existing environment. You said the soil is remaining soggy. My recommendation is that you either change the soil or water less or both. In your case, I would concentrate on not watering to keep all the soil wet, but only to keep the seed moist. Dribble (with your hand) a few droplets on the seeds in the morning and possibly again in the evening. This will keep it sufficiently moist without getting soggy.

If you need to increase humidity, place the grow container in an open plastic bag. But remember, humidity without warmth = cold & clammy ... Not good for germination. Keep your seed tray warm & under warm sunlight during the day. If you need to move the tray to a warmer place at night, do so.

Please reach out if you have any other questions. You are like me ... very detailed & specific, so I understand you. We both should've been attorneys. Ha!!

OK, so for the purpose of demonstrating that using an egg carton allows sufficient room for germination, here's a 2-week old seedling. I just uprooted it because it's not doing very well ... I tried to 'help' by taking its 'hat' off during germination. What I did was stunt its growth by disturbong its developing tip and it will likely die. I urge everyone to cease from this practice. The brown seed cover will dry out and tear on its own as the first leaves emerge. These seedlings do not need our help.

Back to the purpose of my post. This is the root system of a 2-week old seedling. The bottom of the first root is just as pliable as new feeder roots at this stage. It does not matter if it touches the bottom. What I've seen when repotting at 1 month is that it will just have additional, tiny feeder roots ... a very small root system at this stage.

I use a spray bottle for seedlings

Me too Renee. I bought a quality sprayer and use that.

That is an excellent suggestion, Renee. However, one can go overboard with a spray bottle, as well. Two to three pumps once or twice a day, depending on the area being covered and climate, is enough to keep the surface of the soil sufficiently moist.

So funny Elena, I always have to refrain from helping the seeds ahead as well. It's just so tempting to take their hats off...

With 400 seedlings and another 150 seeds on the way my arm gets seriously numbed every night from the spray bottle session. I bought a pressure spray bottle today, this should make life a lot easier (and less painful)

Nice thread. My first seeds arrived on 8-8-16 from Rinoa and they germinated in about 3 days and I got less than 40% germination. My first batch of KO seeds arrived on 8-11-16 and with the exact same care more than 80% germinated in the first 48 hours. I think 100% germination since then but I'll check.

I started them on paper towels sealed in bags and then moved them onto flats. About 1/3 potting mix, 1/3 perlite, and 1/3 sand. I'll keep it in mind the mention of grit with fine roots and add more perlite when I repot. They are lightly domed with the covers skewed for air circulation and I'll probably remove the covers today. They are in the shade of a huge oak tree on my back deck and get dappled sunlight.

Temperatures are around 90 degrees F daytime and humidity around 70%. My biggest concern of course is dampening off. Surfaces of the flats were dusted with cinnamon and I watered with Chamomile tea. Soil mix was sterilized as well as the flats and domes. Seeds were soaked 10 minutes in a 10% bleach solution to sterilize their surfaces though the papery coverings may hold surprises.

Unfortunately several of my seedlings are white. So I assume they'll die. I wanted to watch them germinate and record precise numbers but in the future I'll simply start them in soil mix in the flats. My KO community grow out challenge seedlings will hopefully arrive in about another week so I'm right with you, Marica. I usually have great success with seeds but I hadn't grown adeniums before. I have grown plenty of cacti from seed.

Suggestions are of course welcome!

Fresher seeds from a reputable merchant = increased viability / germination. I believe you will all experience excellent germination results for your grow-out seeds.

A soil alternative is seed starter mix. These mixes are supposedly 'cleaner,' to help increase germination rate and prevent damping off. You can add perlite to increase drainage below ground and sprinkle the finer seeds starter soil atop the seeds.

Have fun & don't stress. This is a friendly group with members who truly want to learn how climate and individual care process effects development (i.e., what works / what doesn't & where). There should be no 'performance anxiety.'

the way i sow my seeds, my preparation for my 1020 tray i soak my soil in water mix with kelp solution, and make them drench for hours, things i use heat mat, thermostat, and dome, after that i plant my seeds to the drenched tray and leave them be, the dome helps for humidity, i never watered or misted the soil or seedlings inside it the entire month and still stayed moist, and no seedlings died. when i germinate them i don't use light, i only start using light if they are 80% germinated already so that they wont get to long reaching for the sky. we sow lots cause we know for a fact some will die. some will be weaklings.

Thank you Marica for this topic. I have been reading this forum and then doing some planning as to what can I do this time so I don't loose my seedlings. I have lost so many from damping off last year. Then I change my container size and potting mix to coir and perlite 50/50. Then it got a little better this year. So I am still in my process of trial and error. I don't have heat mats and grow lights etc...I rely on the sun for 6-8 hours light but then it gets tiring to bring the seedlings out then bring them in especially when there are so many of them. Sometimes the weather here is rain for one hour then its shining for next hour then rain again - Rain, Sun, Rain, Sun - I also have problem with the outside birds uprooting them. Apparently, the birds like to pick on the seedlings. And then now, I think I have a problem with Etiolation.

JP, I definitely have to visit you as I need to learn from you.

Hyn Patty, I agree that Mr Ko's seeds have better germination compared to Rinoa's seeds. I don't know if it has to do with its freshness. Also, Mr. Ko's seeds grow out to be healthier and fatter. But then again, I might be wrong too. Must be my own process of germinating and growing them. Still learning here.

Lyka

Rinoa seeds and Mr Ko's seed sowed two weeks apart. I am using dyna gro pro on both.

below is Rinoa's seeds now. Two days ago, I decided to put fertilizer on them hoping to see if it will make any difference. They look so skinny and not growing.

Below is Mr Ko's seeds now with no fertilizer yet. They look fat and getting bigger.

Good afternoon, I repotted these seedlings, 6 weeks old today. I started them in a net pot (3 inch), and placed them in a saucer of weak fertilizer solution. The substrate was equal parts pumice and #2 cherrystone. I did not soak the seeds nor did I use a heat mat, just placed on the bench in my grow room, sprouted in 4 days.

Good growing, Joe

feel free anytime lyka, just pm me and we can make schedule, today im free im just home messing with them lol.

for my seedlings i let them stay in there first pot as long as i can, and let them explode before transplanting them to new container

Lyka, I wonder if to much light to early might cause the Etiolation. JP said he adds light after they sprout so they don't reach for the sky. Go visit JP Learn all you can! also buy all the nice things I can't get. ;--(

Ok I now know to barley cover the seeds. But how deep should the soil be? I think I need to add more soil to my tray.

Thanks for all the advise. I now have different option to see what will work for me.

Nice color on those seedlings, Joe.

Marica, 1.5-2" depth of soil is all your seed needs from germination to the first month ... Trust me. If potting in pots with a depth of 2.5-3" they can remain there 3 full months before you need to repot. I pot up to this size after they are 1 month old.

The 2-week old seedling I posted yesterday morning measures 1" tall above the soil line with less than 1/2" of root below soil.

Etiolation (thin / lanky / weak growth, long spacing between internodes, chlorosis) is caused by lack of light, not early exposure. My seeds are germinated in full sun and they remain there as seedlings, as well. If anything, I just watch that they don't get sunburned.

- Maria Elena

Still a great thread. Mine are not elongating and are doing great. They are in dappled sun/shade but will soon be moved bit by bit into full sun. Almost all of them are germinated. Interesting observations between growth of Rinoa and KO seeds, Lyka (I also like your name). I'm envious - yes you should go visit Jericson and take lots of photos for the rest of us! ;)

Marica & Hyn Patty, I went to see Jericson yesterday as I am anticipating to sow the seeds for our community grow out and I need advice and learning etc.... Jericson's collection is unbelieveable! I think the whole time I was there my jaw was just dropping hahaha. His plants are amazing! You can just sit in his backyard the whole day and be content. I also got my first ever Arabicum - Thai Soco from JP and some free obesum seeds (:

Hyn Patty, thank you! thats actually my nickname (: My real name is far from it.

Maria Elena, Thank you. I think you are correct. I will see if I could just leave them outside to soak up more sun like JP does. I just have to strategize how to protect them from birds and strong winds if I leave it outside. It can get so windy and blows everything here.

Lyka

Hi, Lyka!

I am so pleased you had an opportunity to see Jericson's amazing collection first hand ... What a treat! The arabicum he gifted you was the cherry on top of the icing ... Just lovely. Please share a picture with us.

Three days ago, I planted 16 arabicum seeds Marica sent me ... my first also. Eight have already germinated! I love the brother/sisterhood in this community. Soon, we too will be giving away seeds and trees.

Regarding seedlings in sun, go slowly so they don't sunburn. My seeds are germinated in full sun, so they can take it. At first, I was afraid of sun scorch because i am dead on the equator, but Stuart gave me the push to take that leap of faith. No sunburn.

All the very best to you.

- Maria Elena

I need to order some RCN and PBN seeds so I'm looking around to see what my options are. So far what I have found are pricey. $2 or more per seed.

Congrats, Lyka! I bet that was an awesome visit! ;)

PM Tracy see what seeds she has.

Maria Elena, Yes i am afraid that they will all get sun scorch but I will just do what you do and see from there. Hopefully they thrive. Here is the picture of the Thai Soco from JP. Its only 5 months old but its bigger than my hand. (:

Nice TS

enjoy your arabicum ts hybrid lyka :)

my seed stash :)...forgot to tell you that i have seeds for sale lol, no obesums though

Do you any RCNs or PBN's Jericson? Or anything else vaguely similar?

Lucky you Lyka, that's one hell of a plant!

i use a 1:3 ratio of 3 parts no.2 cherry stone [chicken grit] and one part floor dry (napa part no. 8822). i measure it out and then store in 1 qt zip bags. i can get media for just over 2 smaller clay pots out of a one quart zip bag. one 40-lb bag of cherrystone mix yields about 28 qt zip bags MIX … soak it well and make sure it drains clear before use. about 16 bucks in supplies for 28 bags.

patty i have RCN still in a POD waiting to open, i got Golden crown, diamond crown, golden bells, all ts classics. and etc etc...

Thanks, I'll message you, J.