Alex, I realize you want a commercial mix, but I just don't think you will find one that will be nearly as good as what you can mix up. The ingredients for the 5-1-1 are pretty easy to find and it is so much better than anything you'll find in a bag. Can you mix it up in your kitchen...a balcony?

Thanks, Laura.

1) What is the "5-1-1 mix" and what is it composed of?

2) Is it good for 3-4-year-old plants that need immediate re-potting upon delivery (as some growers recommend)? As I have already explained, my lemon didn't need to be re-potted but rather potted as it came bare-rooted in wood shavings (this is how the Four Winds Growers have this age plants delivered to customers).

Hi Alex...my youngest son is named Alex! So for the 5-1-1 you will need:

5 parts reptibark (or pine bark fines) - reptibark is easier to find and lasts longer because the chunks are bigger

1 part perlite

1 part peat moss

about 1 tbsp garden lime

And I like to add a scoop of Oscomote Plus

Once you have it potted, wait about two weeks and start regular feeding with Foliage Pro and a little vinegar. I only use 1/2 tsp of white vinegar because my water is not basic. Citrus like it between 6-6.5 or thereabouts. I am no expert, but have all my trees in the 5-1-1 mix after initial resistance (like you ;-), and they are thriving. That mix should last you several years. If you need to pot up, just keep the mix as is and just add more. You can use this mix for any size tree. If you have a tree in a denser mix, I would try to remove as much of the old mix as possible and then fill in with the 5-1-1 mix. For those of us who have our trees indoors, I find it is much lighter and my trees love it.

Thank you, Laura, Vladimir.

Thanks Vladimir. I should have mentioned that to him! It was late at night...;-)

Hi Alex. I also say go for making the 5-1-1. Easiest way is using reptibark for pine fines (Amazon has it on sale often). Pine fines are the hardest part to find. The other stuff you can find at the big stores. I made some 5-1-1 inside once using a big plastic tub,

If you go the bagged potting mix route, choose a light and good draining mix. I'd stay away from any with wetting agents and bunch of other "helper" stuff added. I've heard others say Fafard nursery or professional potting mix is not too bad.

Before I was using 5-1-1, I used a light basic potting mix and added some pine bark & more perlite to it.

I noticed someone selling bagged pre-made "gritty mix" on etsy. Don't know if it's good, but thought I'd mention it.

Thank you, calamondindave.

I wonder whether I should add any insecticide to the 5-1-1 mix to prevent scales and gnats? I am having problems with scales now. Any views on this?

Alex, you will not have gnat problems with the 5-1-1. I had problems with those when I had my Meyer in potting soil mixed with perlite because it still did not drain well and held too much moisture. I would not add any insecticide. The gnats will go away with the 5-1-1, you may need to spray the leaves with neem oil to get rid of the scale.

Understood, Laura. Although I created this thread specifically to get advice on the soil type, looks like one question leads to another (as it often happens). You're saying that Neem Oil should eradicate scales. I am now using an insecticidal soap spray (see photo), which some say should be helpful as well. Are you familiar with it? Is there one guaranteed way of getting rid of scales?

I think that should work. Does it say it works on scale? Neem oil is natural though. It just suffocates them.

Yes, it does. It is also organic. Still waiting to see its effectiveness.

I have used a similar product (Safer's Insecticidal Soap) and they do work. But just like neem and other pesticides, you have to apply regularly to keep the pests under control.

I am not sure what you mean by "regularly", but this particular product recommends doing it on a weekly-bi-weekly basis. The thing is that I have already sprayed the lemon I guess three times (plus cleaned all the leaves and branches by hand), but still notice the presence of new scales. This annoys and worries me a lot.

I wonder if you should just try with neem oil at a bit higher concentration? Not above the recommendations so as to not hurt your tree, but I think that for an infestation, you can use neem every two or three days until they are under control. I am not an expert at this at all, so I don't want to give you bad advice. Let's see what others here have to say. I don't want you to hurt your tree.

I would always follow the manufacturer's instructions. If the soap doesn't work, hose the tree down, let it dry and spray with neem oil according to manufacturer's instructions.

I shall certainly try the Neem Oil if the spray I am using proves ineffective.

Laura, do you think this is the right ingredients for the 5-1-1 mix that you suggested? Is this reptibark really used for keeping reptiles?

Reptibark

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0010OTJIY/ref=twister_B015OSEDTQ?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Perlite

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002Y0AK6S/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2/168-0704520-3806653?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_r=918FWAY11KF5JF3YFSNT&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=1944687602&pf_rd_i=B0000CBITW

Peat moss

https://www.amazon.com/Espoma-PTM8-8-Quart-Organic-Peat/dp/B0037AP20I/ref=sr_1_2?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1471227913&sr=1-2&keywords=peat+moss

Garden lime

https://www.amazon.com/Encap-10612-12-Acting-Pounds-400-Square/dp/B00140ILX8/ref=sr_1_2?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1471228005&sr=1-2&keywords=garden+lime

Make sure not to put your tree in the sun after you spray with neem oil or you could burn the leaves.

You are better off with this coarse perlite: https://www.amazon.com/VARIOUS-HYDROPONIC-PERLITE-VOLCANIC-MINERAL/dp/B015P0UPFO/ref=sr_1_3?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1471292439&sr=1-3&keywords=Super+Coarse+Perlite

You can get peat moss and garden lime for a lot less money at Lowes, Home Depot or any hardware store or garden center.

Thanks. Noted.

BTW, Vladimir, why is the coarser one better? I suspect Lowe's or Home Depot sell all this stuff in much larger bags. This is why I go Amazon where there's more chance to buy it in smaller quantities. I live in an apartment and do not have a garden shack to store it. I asked Laura whether the Reptibark was indeed used for keeping pet reptiles, but she didn't respond. Perhaps, she didn't see my post. Can you shed some light as to what Reptibark really is and why is it important in the 5-1-1 mix?

If I remember correctly, Al Talpa, the guy that came up with the 5-1-1 mix, recommended the coarser perlite, if you can get. It gives you a better performing mix. Also, I don't think it has as much dust. I understand why you want to order on Amazon. I have the storage space.

Repti-bark is used for reptiles which is why Petsmart sells it.

5-1-1 Mix

· 5
parts Repti Bark (Soak overnight)

· 1
part sphagnum peat

· 1
part perlite (coarse, if you can get it)

· 1 Tb garden lime/gal
of 5-1-1 mix (measure the 5-1-1 mix)

· Osmocote
plus (follow manufacturer’s instructions)

·
Moisten well and wait at least 2 days before using

Every recommendation on this thread leads me to additional questions since I am not experienced enough like you guys.

1) What s the purpose of soaking the reptibark if the whole mix has to be moistened and stand for two days?

2) In other words, I have to mix all these ingredients, moisten the mix and let it stand for two days after which I can use it for potting newly arrived trees or re-potting the ones I have. Do I get it right?

The only thing here is that, for instance, if I order a new tree from the Four Winds Growers I would not know the exact date of delivery and won't have the mix ready.

Alex, I'm sorry...I did not see your question about the reptibark. Vladimir answered it for you though. Keep in mind, everyone has their methods, so I will only tell you mine even if it is not "ideal". I only soak the reptibark and that is because I can do it easily in my yard. I tried soaking the whole mix once and it made a huge mess that I do not care to repeat. From what Vladimir explained, soaking the whole mix is to allow the lime to start to activate with the other ingredients. My trees do totally fine, so even if it takes a little longer, I do not think this is a huge issue. The reason for soaking the reptibark is to make sure there are no air bubbles that can then damage your roots. Again, I did not do this initially and had no issues. These days, I have some soaking, but if I run out of the wet one and need more, I just add more into the tub (not my bathtub ;-) swish it around and use it. I find gardening is a bit like beekeeping...an art AND a science. I am a bit intuitive about it and wing it sometimes...so far so good! Good luck!

You need to soak the bark to

1) prevent dry areas in the mix when you put the tree in it so that the roots do not dry and

2) you want the mix to be uniformly moist so that the lime can react to adjust the pH uniformly throughout the mix. The lime cannot work in dry areas.

Thanks, Vladimir.

Wow this is a great discussion, So what is causing these bites on my leaves..? Is this cohabitation with other plants (below) OK...? I have similar problems to what Alex has, with my Myers that must come indoors at summers end in my zone, and clearly my soil is too heavy. I also have a lot of those dumb white gnat/ fly things that I think live in the soil... so, until i get the soil under control, is there even anything that really zaps these buggers when they are in soil? I also have chewed leaves, and some curl so I guess that's those other critters I forget their names, that take up residence in the leaf, and then eat it? Or is it the same critter?

And is it true their roots are shallow enough you don't really need a deep pot even when they are a couple feet high? Just wide? And are they happier together? Mine tend to flower under the T4 lights but most baby lemons fall off...

Hi Mary. I can't tell who chewed on your leaves and at this point I don't think it matters. Repot the tree into 5-1-1 and that may take care of the fungus gnat problem. In the mean time, soak the soil with a neem solution. Mix according to manufacturer's instructions. And they don't care if they are together or not except that being together may help to increase the humidity in the area. Baby lemons fall off because the plant can't carry them all. It will be able later when it gets bigger.