What was the soil mix in those raised beds before?

A good mix of soil for any growing bed is about 45 percent sand, 25 percent silt, 25 percent clay, and 5 percent organic matter, ie. loam.

Topsoil is the top 4 to 12 inches of soil from someplace. It is in reality meaningless. Perhaps this article will be of some interest.

http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/the_shocking_truth_about_topsoil

Mushroom compost is the spent growing medium for mushrooms and is a fairly good amendment for most any soil. "Yard compost" is what ever the seller wants it to be and is something you need to look at closely to see if it is something you want to pay for.

Perhaps the soil you have just needs to be properly amended and not replaced.

kimmq is kimmsr

What was 'crappy' about your garden this year? What have you been doing with the soil over the years - amending, mulching, etc? Since you've been using it a long time, have you had a soil test?

Unless it is soil in a container planting - potting mix - soil in the garden almost never needs to be replaced. Farmers use the same soil for generations, only adding composts, manures and/or fertilizers as necessary to maintain fertility. Having a soil test performed on the current conditions is not a bad idea - it will tell you what may be lacking or deficient and how best to correct these issues.

Gardening "year round, non-stop", especially with edibles, is bound to deplete soil to a significant degree as harvesting these plants tends to pull a lot of nutrients from the ground. These have to be replaced to maintain the same level of productivity. Generally, annual additions of compost or well composted manures, supplemented with fertilizer as appropriate (compost seldom supples ALL the nutrients necessary in adequate concentrations) will suffice. Composted yard waste is a pretty decent product in most cases but I always want to "see" the stuff before purchase if at all possible. And not all mushroom composts are created equal as well :-) Many tend to have pretty high levels of soluble salts which can be harmful/damaging to seeds and young plants. Both should be mixed into the existing soil thoroughly and preferably some time before planting (4-6 weeks or longer) to allow the product(s) to release some nutrients and to dissipate the salts or other potentially strong ingredients.

FWIW, nitrogen tends to be the one nutrient most often lacking in gardens as it is the primary nutrient required by plants and also the most mobile and most rapidly depleted. Not all soil labs will test for N for this reason, assuming N to be lacking, so make sure whichever one you choose does.

What they said. What is it (native soil or mostly organic matter/container mix), what have you added to it over the years, what are you growing, did you have a soil test recently. Let's find out what it's lacking and fix that.

Another point: starting from scratch means ... starting over; it seems very unlikely to me that you'd 'start over' with something better from day one. If the garden worked pretty well for a decade plus, probably an indication that it's not bad soil. In short, fixing/amending what is there will be a lot easier and lower risk.

Allow me to give a little background on my three 4' x 8' raised beds. As I said, I created them about 15 years ago, putting a "grower's mix" of soil and compost from a local rockery. After every growing season, I would amend each bed's soil, double-digging composted steer manure, compost, bone meal, blood meal, and occasionally some peat moss into the existing soil. I'd mulch any fallow beds in the winter with shredded Chinese Hackberry leaves, then dig them into the soil in the spring. The garden flourished for about 12 years or so, then things started petering out. This year, for example, my corn grew to be about 4' high with the resulting corn cobs being about as thick as my thumb. My tomatoes put out very few fruits, most no bigger than 1.5", even the "Big Beef" variety. The melon vines were spindly and never produced any fruit.

About two years ago, I submitted soil samples to the University of Connecticut. They came back with a report that told me not to add anything to the soil for several years except maybe some nitrogen fertilizer, as I was off the scale on all my nutrients. So the only amendment I added was some steer manure for nitrogen. The results that season were worse then ever -- nothing flourished at all.

Simultaneously, I had submitted soil from my two blueberry bushes that were in half whiskey barrels. They said, basically, get those plants out of there, the PH is so low that it's a miracle the plants were still alive. It was a busy spring and I never got a chance to replant the blueberries, and lo and behold, I wound up having the best blueberry harvest ever, and the plants continue to thrive to this day. So I pretty much discounted the results of all my soil tests.

I went ahead and amended my soil as usual last summer, and had a great corn crop in all three beds. I amended the soil after harvesting the corn, but this year, the corn (and everything else) was a dismal failure.

So at this point, I don't know if I'm too high on nutrients, too low, or what. So in this state of frustration and confusion, I thought that the best thing would simply be to start from scratch.

A raised bed is going to suffer from a lack of nutrients if you are not cycling what is being depleted. I would recommend getting a good soil test to give you a idea what your soil is lacking. It is much easier to amend your current soil over replacing it with something else. Who is to say the replacement soil is not going to be lacking.

Not sure what size area you're talking about, and there have been many discussions recently about replacing soil/growing mediums in raised beds, but I'd like to offer a suggestion that applies to whatever decision you make.

One of the oldest and most beneficial soil replenishment techniques is to let a section go fallow for a year. Just rotate your fallow section each year. You can combine that with seasonally-appropriate, soil-replenishing cover crops.

So, whether you decide to replace it, or work with what you have, fallowing, and cover crops are the time-tested easiest way to replenish, and maintain a healthy soil.

In my opinion, the best soil for your raised bed will be real, live topsoil.

If you are the sort of person who can ring around (rather than run around, as I tend to), you could get on the phone and find someone involved in the Earth Moving business who might be able to help you.

Later, when you have your new (real, live) topsoil, you can practise crop rotation. And add home made compost. Soon you'll be having better results.

(It is so much easier to say what should be done but the effort is in the doing. I hope you have great success.)

cover crops will add N and lots of biology. For P and K you have to bring in new materials. Both have a role to play in improving soil.

Legume cover crops, peas, beans, and clovers, will add Nitrogen and many other needed nutrients, and any cover crop can add necessary organic matter that will encourage the soil biology to live and grow in that soil.

kimmq is kimmsr

"Unless it is soil in a container planting - potting mix - soil in the garden almost never needs to be replaced. Farmers use the same soil for generations, only adding composts, manures and/or fertilizers as necessary to maintain fertility. "

Amen! As with most other posters, my initial reaction to your suggestion of replacing the soil is "Noooooo!" Unless your soil has been contaminated with toxic runoff killing all the soil biology, there is no reason to throw it away. It may not have everything that you need, but it is sure to have biology and nutrients that you just can't easily buy at your local big box store.

Just like with relationships, you can't just take take take from the garden, harvesting vegetables year after year, without putting something back. Every year you need to add back in the nutrients you have removed, as well as compensate for those that have leached or evaporated over time. Love your garden, and it will love you back.

Add compost. Add a Complete Organic Fertilizer. If you have fall leaves, shred them and pile them up on the beds as a mulch over the winter, and create other piles just to decompose on their own so you can add them into the beds later.

Feed the critters in your soil so they can keep working for you.

I also think that soil should not be replaced but we don't know what raymondo was using. (Although, he had good results for 15 years. Maybe it WAS top soil.)

Raymondo, why have results been poor only recently?

Rather than leaving soil fallow, it is healthier to grow stuff in it. There are many pea-type plants (Cow Peas or Dun Peas are 2 that I have used) (available from where one buys horse feed) that will produce so-called 'green manure' crops. This simply means that you grow the crop until they start to flower, then dig the crop into the soil. (The reason you wait until they start to flower is that the crop has then reached maximum height. Don't wait until every plant is in flower, just maybe a third of the crop. It's a good time now (Fall) to grow a green manure crop.

I appreciate all the feedback here. I posted what I've been doing (adding amendments before starting a new crop) and the fact that I got a soil test whose results I discounted. But perhaps not everyone can see the post, as it doesn't seem to show up in either the Houzz iPhone app or a mobile browser. Weird.

In any case, what I'm taking away from this discussion is that it'd be better to work with my existing soil than start anew, and the prescription might go something like adding a good amount of mushroom compost and growing a cover crop over the winter, then tilling it in before the spring planting. What amount of compost should I add? Something like a 1 to 3 ratio?

I might try my luck with another soil test. Any recommendations (besides University of Connecticut)? I'm always amazed that my local gardener's extension, UC Davis, is one of the most renowned horticultural centers in the nation, yet they don't perform soil tests for the average joe. :/

Odd that your comment didn't post for me here until today. Any university, or professional lab should give satisfactory results. However, as far as the blueberries, the test came back showing the soil with a low pH. Blueberries enjoy low pH. How low was it that they recommended moving them. That would be one clue to whether that to trust the tests. Your county Agricultural Agent should be able to recommend the most trustworthy lab in your area.

I would not discount your earlier soil test so fast. It is exactly what happened to me: adding lots of compost and manure over many years boosts the P and K (which don't leach away very fast) to very high levels. Nitrogen becomes depleted since compost doesn't add very much of it and it is very leachable/volatile.

Your last addition of manure still added P and K. P particularly is high in manures usually. Same for all the other nutrients - I bet soluble Ca and Mg were very high as well in your test.

I have similar problems, spindly plants with not enough fruit. I have cut waay back on the compost and begun using high N lawn fert. This summer my peppers looked terrible and I sprinkled some of that around them and they greened up and sprang forward very fast.

I also have shade from trees and I fight with roots, so watch out for that. I don't know if N is going to solve all your problems but: stick to leaves for awhile, cut way back on compost, grass clippings, manure, etc., and use some N. 29-0-0 or 29-3-3 lawn fert. There is also a nitrate available, can't remember what it is, it's 56-0-0.

I think I just began to think compost was the solution to everything, and for some people apparently it is, but not all the time everywhere.

Where are you getting your cow manure from? Do you know if those cows/cattle are producing contaminated manure from grazing in herbicide treated fields? It almost sounds like this is what you are dealing with.

I am extremely careful of where I source my cow poop from for my compost after learning about passive herbicide transmission.

Please see this article for more info: Killer Compost

"Since 2005, thousands of farmers and gardeners who have simply applied compost or mulch to their gardens or fields have unknowingly poisoned their own crops. These tragedies happened — and are still happening — because of potent, persistent herbicides including clopyralid and aminopyralid."

I think you can have your soil tested for clopyralid and aminopyralid contamination. If that does come back positive, then yes, you will have to remove all your old soil and start over.

raymondo, you did state that you used blood meal in addition to your manure and compost amendments. Did you use enough to boost up your N levels? Did the poor growth you have been seeing recently look characteristic of low N - i.e. yellowing foliage particularly on older leaves? Have you tried experimentally treating some plants with a high-N fertilizer to see if they respond? If so, then toxie's hypothesis about low N levels may be supported.

But you've described stunted growth and failure to set fruit, which looks like a different pattern, though it's not clear what. What other symptoms have you seen in the plants? Which plants are particularly affected? Are there any plants that are performing as normal? Any marks of plant disease or pest infection? Have you checked the roots to see if they are diseased or being eaten by something? Tree roots making incursions in the beds?

States with a heavy agricultural presence typically do NOT offer soil tests through the extension service - they simply do not have the time, staff or $$ to keep up with them. But there are many professional soil testing labs in CA that you could access. I tend to favor more localized soil testing as it would seem they would have a better handle on local soils, climates and nutrient requirements - that may not be entirely accurate but it's the theory I work with ;-))

While the additions of compost or manures may seem logical to refresh the soil each season, they do tend to build up levels of P and K while N remains lacking. Until or unless you have a soil done that recommends otherwise, I'd go with an N fixing cover crop for at least one season and give the soil a rest. Or use a heavy N fertilizer product like the lawn fert described above or urea. Manures and composts just do not supply enough of this vital nutrient.

And you do rotate your crops each season? Growing the same things in the same place season after season not only contributes to disease issues but also results in those specific crops pulling out a specific array of nutrients in that location. Shift things around!! I recommend at least a three year rotation system.

It could be rather expensive to test for those herbicides, just fyi. Much more so than a soil test for minerals and nutrients, just because the test is more elaborate. A regular soil test lab may not be equipped to do it, but they may be able to recommend a lab. I don't know how sensitive the analytical methods are but presumably there are methods out there that can detect it at levels of concern. Likely down in the parts per million.

As for replacing all the soil if you found them, they are supposed to degrade in a couple of seasons. Obviously not fast enough to prevent effects on gardens, but they don't stay around forever. I would think hard before replacing all my soil even if I went so far as to test and find the stuff. Just my two cents.

I wonder if there isn't a kind of roll-your-own bioassay for seedling growth that you could do at home before resorting to spending big $$ for specific herbicide tests, just for three 4' x 8' raised beds -- ?

For soil testing in CA I can personally vouch for the reputation and experience of Wallace Laboratories. They are not so cheap, but I'd say they are the top private soil lab in southern CA, if not the state.

http://us.wlabs.com/

The Ag schools in many states with a heavy agricultural presence still do soil testing for the homeowner. Wisconsin, Michigan, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, Georgia, Washington, Oregon, North Carolina, Florida, and many more will do, and encourage, soil tests for the homeowner. Ag Schools that do not do soil testing do not do that because at some time that states legislature determined the Ag Schools should not be competing with private labs.

Normally the soil test in North Carolina is a no charge test because of a fee on all fertilizers sold in the state. There is a nominal $4.00 fee from the end of November, 2016 to the end of March, 2017 this time however.

Soil testing is important so each of us does not contribute to the pollution of our water.

kimmq is kimmsr

Again, I thank all the participants for offering their sage advice and input. I've selected a soil lab in my region to send a sample to: A&L Western Laboratories in Modesto, California. Cost was $35 for a "complete" test. I'll share the results once I get it back.

To answer a few recent questions, Gardengrlz, I get both my steer manure and chicken manure packaged from Home Depot. I don't think my results appear to be herbicide related, as I would think they would barely grow at all, as opposed to small/spindly growth.

Parsley, I did use a considerable amount of blood meal on my corn crops -- probably four cups worth on an 4x8' bed. No sign of any root damage. The one crop that did ok this season was a couple of volunteer pumpkin vines, which produced one medium sized pumpkin and several of the mini variety. Corn, melons, and tomatoes were all disappointing.

Gardengal, I try to do as much crop rotation as I can, but with only three 4'x8' beds, it's not easy to keep from repeating myself in an area. For example, I usually devote an entire bed to tomatoes each summer, so at best, only two years pass before the tomatoes are replanted in the same bed.

I keep meaning to mention this, but I find very little earthworm activity in my raised beds.

I think I'll give the beds the winter off and plant a cover crop. Any recommendations? I love the look of clover in a field, but would clover be the best cover crop for my garden beds? Or would I be better off with something like buckwheat, or perhaps hairy vetch?

Thanks everybody!

Hairy vetch and rye are good choices for a crop that will over-winter and then grow like gangbusters in the spring. Chop & drop about a month before summer planting. Buckwheat is a fast growing summer crop. You would need about 35 days before frost to get anything at all. Clover needs several warm months, so it is out of the question until next spring.

An alternative to cover crops is a good worm-feeding mulch like shredded leaves.

Richard, sounds like Hairy Vetch is the way to go, as long as you think I'd be able to till it in in time for late spring tomato planting. How do you know when it's ready to till in?

As for shredded leaves, I've done that often in seasons past, running over the ample amount of Chinese Hackberry leaves with my mulching mower, dumping them out and running over them a second time, and then dumping them on the beds. But they're a thicker leaf than, say, a papery Maple leaf, and don't seem to break down very quickly. Maybe that's why I don't seem to get a lot of worms in my beds. In my compost pile, more than I can possibly count, but not many worms in my beds.

Hairy vetch is great for a cover crop in raised beds. I have 10, 4' x 10' beds that I grow hairy vetch in each fall/winter. In the spring after it blooms, I simply just hack it down with a pair of hedge clippers and leave the clippings in the beds (don't till!). I then cover that up with a mixture of soil and compost and plant directly in that mixture.

I have found that in the beds where I do this, I have less soil erosion, better moisture control, and more worm activity. Not to mention plants like tomatoes, cukes, squash, etc., love it.

I can't cover crop every bed every year, as I need a few "open" beds for early spring greens and peas.