Hudson Valley,

sure you are going to wait until Christmas?!

Hi Iris Stoiser I ordered the book as an 'early Christmas present' to me (but I'll be opening it as soon as it arrives in my mailbox of course) - really looking forward to it, so much to learn, gardening with natives is a new adventure!

Thought you'd enjoy this picture of Thin Mountain Mint I found growing wild.

I have seedlings of Hairy Mountain Mint that I sowed from seed ready to transplant into a flower bed. As I'm sure you know, mountain mint is one of the top plants for pollinators :)

My sister in law just sent me a picture of what happens when I tell her what website still has milkweed to sell. Some of the plants are going in the garden at the school my nephew goes to. It's just great. One person at a time.

That is just wonderful! Such good news that some of the plants are going in the school garden. That's the key isn't it, education & practical knowledge? I went to my a local garden center that specializes in native plants & saw a wide variety of asters, they'd be good for school garden too

She came over last year with her wheelbarrow to dig up milkweed, blanketflower, rudbeckia, coneflowers and perennial sunflowers for her yard. I told her she can do that again for the school if she would like. If we can figure out how to get the passion vine out that's sprouting up everywhere in the grass that would be great.... Haven't had much luck with that yet.

Your garden must look beautiful with those plants, they are all attractive, but massed together - wow! Very generous of you to share. I did not know passion vines put out shoots like that. I know the red trumpet vine puts out shoots from the original vine & you have to keep mowing them.

Was just wondering if you got the book and have any first thoughts.

I have so enjoyed this reading through this thread (as well as this forum). So many knowledgeable forum members who teach me something new with every visit. My thanks to all who share and contribute.

Mary

Hi irisstoiser thanks for asking, yes I am reading Douglas Tallamy's book & I can honestly say this book is a life changer. He explains nature's web, how we are wholly dependent on plants for our life & how important native plants are. Thank you so much for recommending this book. I have just spent a few hours pulling up invasive Japanese Stilt grass & Mugwort from my garden. Pleased to see that within weeks of me cutting back Mugwort, some Sensitive Ferns (native) appeared. It's encouraging to see the natives come back so quickly.

Hi mary_littlerockar(8a-7b mid Arkansas) I feel the same about this forum. It is fascinating to read & nice to be part of this community isn't it.

Hi terrene(5b MA) just wanted to say 'thanks' for helping me find Douglas Tallamy's book, I am reading it & learning so much.

In the spirit of the discussion regarding using native plants in our landscape, I'd like to mention Frostweed (Verbesina virginica) aka White Crownbeard.

I grew it for the first time this year. Here are my notes for seed starting. Frostweed ***Jan 15,
2016 outside on deck for wintersow ... feb 19 many little seedlings in ws pot
on deck ... Mar 6 - seedlings looking strong sitting on potting bench with jug
open during day. First signs of first true leaves beginning.

I was away from home this summer so didn't get the seedlings into the ground until late September. The plant has very pretty leaves with strong stalks and has the unusual ribbon/wing like growths on the stalks. I'm not sure it will set bloomheads this season, due to it being planted out so late in the season. But if the additional growth since I set it into the ground is any indication of the strength of this native plant, it should do well next season. I have planted it in an area that gets some high shade from oak trees during part of the day. As you can see from my notes, the seed germinated easily.

This plant blooms late in the year, when many other plants have slowed or ceased blooming so it would be a wonderful addition for late season nectar. From all the photos I've seen online of the blooms, it will be a lovely garden addition plus there is the additional experience of viewing the behavior of the stalks following the first freeze of the season.

click on links below for a wonderful article and YouTube video featuring this native plant...

Frostweed article w photos

Monarchs nectaring on Frostweed blooms

I bought my seed from a native plant nursery in Florida and the packet was very reasonable.

Does anyone reading this thread have experience with this native plant?

Mary

mary_littlerockar(8a-7b mid Arkansas) sounds like a great plant & I'm interested to see how it grows next year, please keep us posted :) How helpful to have a plant that blooms in late summer. I did some research & It looks similar to a (smaller) wildflower I see locally. But Verbesina virginica is not native to NY unfortunately. I'm wary of planting anything not native to NY because it could be invasive. I'm looking for more late-season flowering native plants myself. I noticed this year, the last plants to bloom are the native asters & goldenrod & then there's nothing else, but the pollinating insects are still around, they need more nectar late in the season. Today I saw a bee & a butterfly fighting over a single 'blanketflower' - the bee made the butterfly move away

mary_littlerockar(8a-7b mid Arkansas) - I have some Common Milkweed (Asclepias syriaca) seeds, gathered from wild plants in my yard. Let me know if you'd like some I'll mail them to you. This plant is native to NY & also Kansas. More info here http://www.kansasnativeplants.com/storedetail.php?plnt_id=177

Thank you for sharing, Mary. If I find some seeds I am going to try. I am not lucky with seeds, but have been reading up on wintersowing and thought I give it a go. I bought this plant two Springs ago at the native plant sale. It must have been mislabeled, since it said 3-4 feet and it's easily 9. It's flowering like crazy right now, so great for late season. Just have to replant it and it's about ten sizable seedlings in Spring to a more suitable location.

Hudson Valley,

i know what you mean about finding late season flowers that are native. Are Passion flowers still flowering up there? They are very popular in my yard right now. Sorry about the picture quality again.

Hudson Valley NY (zone 5), thank you so much for the kind offer of seed for the common milkweed but it is already growing in my small garden. It is a lovely early spring milkweed, with a bloom fragrance to die for. It is native here but it has to be cut back in June to encourage new leaf growth. If not cut back, the leaves become too tatty to use as food for the fall Monarch cats.

Iris Stoiser(SC, 7b), those blooms look like they might be some type of Biden. I grow one here that is a local plant (Bidens aristosa - Bearded Beggarticks)because it does bloom late in the summer and I adore the lovely yellow blooms. It grows to about 40 inches so fits into my small garden. It is just about done now but while in bloom, all the little flying things feed on the blooms. This plant is found all over the area, growing in fence rows, along bar ditches and the edges of wooded areas and like your lovely plant, covers itself in pretty blooms.

Here is a photo of the blooms ofBidens aristosa in my garden.

I'll be happy to let everyone know how the Frostweed does next year.

Mary

Iris Stoiser(SC, 7b) wow what a beautiful plant! And it's obviously very happy in your garden :)

mary_littlerockar(8a-7b mid Arkansas) glad to hear you have plenty of milkweed! Can't have too much of this beautiful plant.

Hudson Valley NY (zone 5), thanks for the link to the Kansas Wildflower site. While looking through their lists of seeds, I spotted a seed offer for another 'grows great for me' native plant for the home garden, Maryland Senna | Cassia marilandica.

It is a draw for the sulphur butterflies, a host for their little cats, is easy to germinate the seed using the winter sow method, is sturdy and upright in growth so doesn't overwhelm a garden site and the seed pods of this variety DON'T burst open like the seed pods of it's cousin, so you don't have to worry about it reseeding all over, especially if you just remove the long bean like seed pods once they turn black (which is an indication of seed maturity). I suppose if the beans were left on the plant, they'd eventually fall off onto the ground, still enclosed in the dried pod and feed wildlife from the ground. At maturity, it has a lovely blue green leaf color, the flowers are a bright yellow and produced on strong, upright stalks. I grew mine the first year or two in a big pot, then transplanted it into the garden ... Mary

...click on the photos to enlarge them for better viewing

my winter sowed seedling growing in a gal trade pot

blooms on the same plant at maturity

the Frostweed plants (grown for fall nectar) this morning ... no sign, yet, of flower buds forming (bright early morning angled sunlight makes for a poor photo but thought someone might like to see the plant in a home garden setting)

can you see, below, the wings type growth forming on the plant stalk? Isn't this interesting. Can't wait to see if it develops the frost like ribbons with the first freeze this winter.

Mary, how interesting to learn about Maryland Senna it sounds like an all round great plant. Frostweed looks healthy. I've noticed the unusual stem/leaf formations of wildflowers, lots of variation. I've see pictures of the frost like ribbons but never seen anything like it in real life.

Hudson Valley NY (zone 5), yes, the Maryland Senna would be a great addition for anyone who has the sulphur butterflies in their area. Otherwise, unless garden area is vast, or you want to grow for seed for the ground feeding birds, I'd devote the planting space to something that would help a native butterfly.

I tend to forget that not all areas of the country host the same types of butterflies or wildflowers, for that matter. One of our forum members kindly shared seed of this plant with me several years back
and I am so grateful to her for the heads up on this plant. My butterfly garden draws in so many interesting butterflies but without the shared knowledge here, it would never have been so successful... Mary

I found seeds for the frostweed, so I am good to go this winter. Hope it works. I have a patch of the wild kind of senna next to my brushpile. Its growing there with some goldenrod and some other nice looking weeds I still don't know what they are.

Oh lucky you. Golden Rod is a great nectar plant and the senna will hopefully attract the sulphurs. I hope you'll try at least some of the Frostweed seed using the 'winter sowing' method. I have had the best of luck with all types of seed using this method of germination. In fact, you know how antsy you get when the days begin to lengthen and you are waiting for spring. With winter sowing, it is such fun to peek into the pots along to see if anything is beginning to sprout. Some things will begin to sprout quite early while other seeds can take a while. You've always got something to look forward to with this method of seed germination. ... Mary

Can the seeds be stored at room temperature until it is time to plant? I do like goldenrod, even though it is one of the plants trying to take over the world. Back by the pile it's no problem. It's always interesting to see what pops up when you can convince the husband not to mow. Still have to look this one up, since there is always the chance of invasive. Had some Chinese privet trying.

Yes, store the seed in a dry, cool place until time to plant. I try to keep my milkweed seed in air tight containers in the fridge but I'd think most types of seed keeps well at room temps. I'm just a home gardener so have no special expertise. Shelf life varies with seed, depending on the seed.

I try to do my winter sowing right after the holidays. If I prepare my containers in the fall, it's easy and quick to get the seed planted and set outside so mommy nature can take over. .. Mary

Interesting to hear about the winter sowing. Here in NY we can sow seeds in fall or spring. I'm going to try sewing wildflower seeds in fall. Also some spicebush berries I collected locally (spicebush swallowtail butterfly).

Iris Stoiser, was wondering where did you find frostweed seeds? Could you please let me know! thank you!!

I ordered them at Native American Seed. The prices for seeds seemed alright, shipping was compared to the order very expensive, (they shipped UPS) so if I wouldn't have spent so much time browsing and adding some other stuff I might have looked somewhere else. Can't say anything about the quality of seeds, but they included a very informative catalog.

I found Prairie Moon's seeds to be good quality. Really good germination rate on Mountain Mint

Where did you find the Prairie Moon seeds, may I ask?

I just wanted to put in a plug for zinnias as a late season nectar plant. They aren't native, but they do not become invasive and they are the last thing blooming in my Michigan garden. I also have Verbena boniarensis blooming, but it is foreign and reseeds very enthusiastically. But, I still have bumble bees on both of these plants, and I haven't been around to do any deadheading.

Martha

By now we should have had frost, but this year is really weird. My zinnias foliage looks terrible, but they are still flowering. Good thing since there are still so many butterflies around. Obedience plants, swamp sunflower and hummingbird vines are still looking good. Never planted the vine ( I guess also called cypress vine) but it pops up every year, overtaking all kinds of stuff. Don't have the heart to pull it all out since the hummingbirds and especially sulphurs are crazy about it.

Is the book some of you have been discussing Bringing Nature Home or The Living Landscape? I looked under Tallamy's name and found those two on Amazon.

We started adding nectar plants without focusing on anything in particular -- we just wanted to attract butterflies and hummingbirds. We noticed our bees love the mint, basil and salvias, so we let them all go as long as possible. We added milkweed probably 7-8 years ago and now have a monarch enclosure and nearly 100 plants. We had over 100 but gave some to a friend who needed more and will probably gave away more. We are planting additional varieties to try to include natives and to spread them around the area -- so far, the one Monarch Watch was saying we should have doesn't seem to be ready when the cats are, but it may need time to get established.

Our generalist approach probably means we have more nectar plants than host plants, but I would like to add more hosts. We could probably stand more late nectar plants too. We had Monarch cats in late January through March or April this year, then stragglers through the summer. They are back in larger numbers again. We released over 50 in late Sept and Oct, and have another 30+ in the enclosure or where we are watching them, have a lot of eggs on some of the plants and are still seeing butterflies laying more. If we attract more butterflies with other host plants, we may need more nectar plants too. LOL

Latscatx, your garden sounds great. Where are you located? The book is Bringing Nature Home. It's really a great book. My neighbor is getting a hip replacement next week ( timed to be able to be ready for Spring planting) I already ordered a copy for her to keep her occupied while she is recovering. And maybe get her thinking.

That sounds like a very nice and thoughtful gift I'm sure she will appreciate and enjoy both now and later. l will look into getting a copy for myself -- or for DH. With a birthday in January, I am sometimes stretched thin for ideas for him. Whether he gets it in Dec or Jan, I can always use another idea. He will retire eventually and is enjoying more time in the garden and tending Monarchs.

We are north of the Houston area -- long growing season, but not always friendly.

.

Hi jtmath2 the Prairie Moon Nursery is online, here's the link. They mailed me the 'Hairy Mountain Mint' seeds which had a good germination rate. http://www.prairiemoon.com/

lascatx the excellent book Bringing Nature Home was recommended to me by Houzz gardeners & changed the way I think about gardening. It includes a list of native host plants & trees. I surprised to learn that some butterflies/moths have several host plants, but others have only one.

I ordered a copy of the book and it should be here tomorrow. The while host/nectar and species thing is a bit overwhelming at first unless you have a specific butterfly in mind -- like the Monarch. I actually started looking at attracting hummingbirds and butterflies get nectar from many of the same plants. I wasn't as concerned with hosts at that time (seemed to specific, limiting and needed more names than were in my vcabulary -- but then started planting milkweed for Monarchs and a Dutchman's pipe for the swallowtail I spotted --- but haven't had a lot of luck with that plant yet. I think I saw a Queen butterfly laying eggs on my milkweed over the weekend. Hope my monarchs have cousins.

Hey Marylittlerockar... They aren't the best for nectaring, but if you succession sow plants like basil and let the last set flower all the pollinators pay attention to them and do manage to get a meal. I like to leave some small carrots to mature just for the blooms... they drop seeds everywhere, and make more babies than you could possibly need for the next year... but I have always have a hard time with thinning seeds I plant cause I don't know which will thrive and which will fail... My sister has had great luck with feeding lots of pollinators with sunflowers planted in July... She is nuts about Sunflowers. Just don't forget about planting some of your leftover seeds later in the summer for later blooms. :)

I saw a "monarch seed mix" in the Territorial Seed catalog and got all exited. Thought I will get my husband to till up a little bit of lawn and have a go. The description said it contains milkweeds and a selection of native wildflowers and garden flowers. Looking at the website it seems there is just butterfly weed and a lot of the others don't seem native. Any thoughts? A better alternative?

Hello, All.

I have just moved to St. Paul for a new job, and had to leave my beautiful butterfly/pollinator garden behind. I will be living in a downtown apartment for the foreseeable future, so I'm looking for ways to stay active in pollinator gardening. As I searched for local groups, I came across one that holds regular conferences. Doug Tallamy is speaking next month!!! I can't wait to meet/hear him.

Iris, re seed sources, I have had great luck with seed trading with folks here on GardenWeb/Houzz. Go to the exchange forums and check them out. Also, once my husband follows me here, he will bring my box of native seeds. I have far more than I need, and would be happy to share. It might be up to a month before I have my seeds, though.

Martha

I am so jealous you will be actually seeing Doug Tallamy! That would be like meeting George Clooney or something. I would love to hear him speak in person! Lots of exclamation points, so you see how excited I am for you. I did find a seed mix in a different catalog that sounds good. And am also mixing and matching. Hopefully going to be luckier then usually with seeds.

Definitely try wintersowing. I never had any success starting from seed until I wintersowed, and now I would never consider wasting money buying plants. OK, maybe for bushes or hard-to-come-by perennials, but I find wintersowing so easy and reliable. Good luck.

Martha

I'm trying the milk jug and toilet paper rolls with the seeds and put them out side for winter. I hope it works !! Plus I will start some seeds in side in pots. Trying to get ready for spring, can't wait!

jtmath2, keep a close eye on the toilet paper rolls as they will tend to dry out. The cardboard can wick the moisture from the potting mix, making it tedious to try and maintain a constant level of moisture. Once your seed becomes moist, you do not want them to dry out as this can inhibit germination.

Mary

Mary, thank you for the info I sprayed them then put them out side for winter I didn't realize I had to keep them moist. I will check them now!

Thank you for information on the mountain mint, just ordered some seeds .