I don't have lights. I do have an inexpensive plastic green house that I use in the spring. The seedlings have to be ready to deal with cold, it's not heated, or I have to bring them in at night. Depending on how many you're starting, this could be a cold frame or some other smaller shelter.

I've kind of developed a system. This fall I'm doing 2 flats of seedlings in 3 oz paper cups (with sterile seed starting mix). I have room in front of a south facing window for those 2 flats. When they've sprouted, they go outside in a sheltered spot. Then I do 2 more flats.

I've used several different kinds of containers. I like 3 oz paper cups (not waxed) like they sell for bathroom use. I have used bigger waxed ones once when I couldn't find the others, but they won't rot in the ground like a paper one, if you choose to use them that way. And I can get more in my trays with the 3 oz size. I have also used TP rolls cut in half. I do my peas in those in spring and plant the whole thing once they sprout.

My trays have plastic dome lids that stay on till they sprout. Usually I move the sprouted to one tray and keep the other covered until they are mostly all up. I have used the containers bakery cookies come in from the store (large square clamshells) this way before I bought the other trays.

As I said, I use sterile seed starting mix, and I just use Jiffy brand, nothing fancy. What I like to do is soak my seeds for a couple of hours in filtered water, seaweed fertilizer and a dash of hydrogen peroxide (for oxygen). But I don't always, so it is not a necessity. I put the seeds on top of the starter mix and then put a thin layer of vermiculite on top. If I was smart, I would wet the vermiculite first, but I never think to do that. So I use a spray bottle to wet down the vermiculite and keep it moist until the seeds sprout. If I remember, I sprinkle the cups with cinnamon, to help prevent damping off.

I write directly on the cups with a sharpie. Sometimes that survives to potting up, but not always. This year I bought "steak markers". Little stakes with "medium" on one side and I write a name or number on the other side to keep track of what is planted. I always end up with several IDKs because I forgot to mark the cups or I couldn't read them. This happens no matter how hard I try.

I pot up to 16 oz solo cups filled with actual potting soil, which I also write on, with paint markers from the craft section of Walmart.

I am not the greatest gardener. But I can do this, and it is my favorite part, I think. If I can do it, anybody can.

I've always just put the seeds in a bright window. I always have more die than sprout, but I at least get some to come up. Last year I put my portable greenhouse outside and had pretty good results, and did a lot of winter sowing (don't need any special equipment for that).

If you have a south or west window with lots of sunshine you should be fine. I have had good luck starting tomatoes under floressent lights. They need to be within a few inches of the plants.

Thanks everyone. I have good S facing and E facing windows. The two W facing ones are pretty small.

Amy, is it just the Peas you plant immediately after sprouting? You said you pot some things up to 16 oz cups

Anyone have decent results just using soil from the garden?

No one's mentioned heating mats so maybe they're a luxury

Heating mat is on my Christmas list, but unless your house is cold and drafty, not a neccesity.

Peas don't germinate well in cold ground, but they're very hardy once they're up. I do this to get a little head start in spring. I soaked them and planted direct this fall. TP rolls are good for things you want to transplant but don't want to disturb the roots. Could be done with carrots and beets, but kind of tedious. Tomatoes, peppers, brassicas, most of the things I start from seed, I pot up to bigger cups, the biggest solo cups I can find. That is because they're started too early to be transplanted out. If you were starting succession crops, and it was warm enough to plant them out, AND YOU HAD THE ROOM, you could put the paper cup in the ground after tearing the bottom off. I never have enough room, so sometimes things sit in solos for too long. I use regular potting soil to pot up, and they'll need to be fed. I direct seed beans and cowpeas, carrots, cucumbers, squash, melons, okra. I usually start spinach direct, but there are other greens I grow for transplanting.

Seed starting mixes are designed for good drainage and sterilized to prevent diseases like damping off. Some people sterilize garden soil by baking it in the oven. Seems like kind of a mess. You wouldn't want too much clay in something like that, would turn into a brick.

Ok. Does the damping off disease become more dangerous somehow when soil is removed from the garden? Still not clear to me how seeds succeed in the garden. Mine have mostly sprouted fine. I did have mosaic virus once, on southern Peas I planted.

Damping off disease is from fungal spores that live in soil. See the link for a little more info. It can happen in the garden, too. Mainly, I think the conditions when you start seeds indoors might make it more likely. If not more likely, more heartbreaking, when you put all that effort into starting seedlings, babying them and then loosing them and maybe contaminating other seedlings at the same time.

We all know seeds will grow where they fall, and often do. We just try to tip the odds in our favor as we try to get started early. I always have SOMETHING that never germinates. Why? Everything else does great, but something just won't make it. Bee balm won't grow for me, not indoors, nor winter sown, nada. So, anything you can do to give your seeds a better chance increases your odds of success.

I see. I had a friend send me link to an interesting book full of heartwarming and sobering stories of life during the Great Depression. It was titled "We Had Everything But Money". Made me wonder if I could start seeds without modern innovations if I needed to. If anyone is interested: We Had Everything But Money

I'm sure seeds would grow in any soil, including regular garden soil. After all, that's how its been done for centuries. I do think indoor warmth and humidity give you a higher chance for fungus issues. The point of starting seeds indoors instead of direct seeding is to get a head start on the season and our weird weather. I thought I would save my own seeds and have a self sustaining garden in a few years. While I am still hoping to move in that direction, I'm finding some things just aren't practical for an old woman. (And I have a seed addiction and must try everything I see). I have considered going to something like these soil blocks to eliminate some of the cups. It doesn't mention sterile soil. The peat in the mix would be the hardest thing to replace if if you had to do it without purchasing anything.

I'm worried about catching the seed addiction frankly. My job and other circumstances have kept me from doing anything there for the last couple of years, but it looks like spring 2017 will be different. I love reading about heirloom seeds in various catalogs like Seed Savers, Sustainable Seeds, High Mowing seeds, etc and it's endlessly fascinating. If you have any sources of information you that like best please send them. I will look over the soil blocks you mentioned.

If sterile soil is the goal then it seems like that should be able to be done by putting the soil under the right kind of plastic (or glass?) in the direct sun shouldn't it? You can purify water just by putting it in a clear plastic or glass container and exposing it to enough sunlight. Perhaps the same could be done with soil.

My favorite source of information is this forum. I have learned more here, than anywhere. Some day, Dawn will emerge from her kitchen remodel and add things I've missed. The most important thing I've learned is to find varieties that grow well here. I don't care how pretty the picture is in the catalog, how easy they say it will grow or how heat tolerant they claim it is. Oklahoma weather is brutal. Heat tolerant in New York is not the same as heat tolerant in Oklahoma (or Texas). I expect you could acclimate something you REALLY wanted by growing it and saving seeds and eventually creating a landrace. But I'm old, if a tomato produces 3 tomatoes all season it's just not worth the space in the garden for me. (It doesn't count if the stupid chickens ate 50 of them and left you 3, but setting fruit above their heads is a plus.) I keep looking at my garden and thinking I should grow more things that produce heavily for their foot print, or that I can grow in fall and winter to make extra use of the space. And the only thing I should be growing in August is cow peas and okra.

The Green Country Seed Savers is another great source of info. If you're near Tahlequah they have monthly meetings and are great people.

Sustainable Mountain Agriculture Center has a lot of good info, mostly about beans.

Ask me about specific things you are interested in and I will try to help.

Cowpeas, okra and sweet potatoes are the backbone of the summer garden.

I want to grow potatoes, onions, cabbage, spinach, chard, southern Peas, bush/pole beans, sweet potatoes, okra, squash, cucumbers, melons, pumpkins, peppers, tomatoes and corn (if possible -- Dawn says it's difficult). I'd like an asparagus bed too.

Mulberryknob, would squash also do ok in the summer garden?

Most important things for starting plants indoors are enough light, right amount of water, fertilizer, and air movement. You can have the perfect setup, but unless there is a fan or open window, you will get damping off disease.

I've been starting seeds indoors for 40 years with a 40" fluorescent light setup in trays with sterile soil and a slightly open window, fertilized half strength with Miracle Grow, in plastic cell paks, watered from the bottom in the trays, with 100% success.

Main thing is to read a lot about it, learn about it, get lists, and go by experience. You will soon develop the skills. This website has amazing tips. Read read read. And have fun with it!

Ps...my mother started seeds on her southfacing windowsill in cutoff milk cartons and had a beautiful garden.

I didn't get sweet potatoes going this year, but that's a good point, they like heat. So does squash, but it brings up the question of bugs, because I will let the bugs have them rather than fight them in 105* temps.

Potatoes. I never get enough to last till spring, so I buy seed potatoes in spring. I do Kennebeck, Yukon Gold and the red potatoe that Atwoods sells. Potato Garden and Fedco sell seed potatoes on line, as well as Peaceful Valley and Southern Exposure Seed Exchange.

Onions. Dixondale. There is a group here that does a group order, you can order direct or find someplace selling them. I like the starter plants as opposed to the little dry bulbs.

Spinach is day length sensitive, it goes to seed when days are longer than 14 hours. Plant early in spring or for fall.

Southern peas. Unusual varieties at Sandhill Preservation. Lots of other things there too. They are harder to order from because you have to mail it in. You can get Pink Eye Purple Hull or black eyed peas at any feed store/nursery in Oklahoma. I am sure Southern Exposure has interesting varieties, too, I've just never bought from them.

Bush/pole beans. I linked Sustainable Mountain above, also Sandhill. Standard varieties are easy to find locally.

Sweet potatoes. A couple of members here sell sweet potato slips. Duck Creek Farms and did I hear that George (Macmex) sold them this year? Sandhill sells slips, too.

I don't grow corn, but one day I am going to try dent or flint corn. George (Macmex) and Dawn and otheres here know more about that.

I started asparagus seeds in 2015 and some more this year. They are scheduled to go to a permanent bed late winter. You can buy crowns. I didn't want to spend that much money, so I started seeds. It takes longer, but this is definately more frugal.

The other things you mentioned are available from the companies above or I like Johnny's, Baker Creek, Kitazawa, Pinetree, Fedco, Sample Seed Shop, Oklahoma companies include Duck Creek, Dustbowl, Clear Creek. There are literally hundreds of small, often organic, heirloom seed producers out there. And there are specialties that do herbs, wildflowers, etc. Some companies pack fewer seeds to a package so they can sell them for less and you get to try more things.

I'm sorry, I'm an enabler now, too, I'm pretty sure I've just started you down the road to a seed addiction.

Lol. That's pretty funny. Yes, you're definitely an enabler now. And I am grateful.

Thanks for tip about air movement Susan. Never even thought about the need for that kind of thing.

I hadn't put seed starting in the context of total yield, but only in the immediate context of beating the inexorable heat of June. It makes so much sense if you're trying to maximize yield. The extensive responses are so appreciated.

So soilless mixes it is. I was going to avoid them and the heat mats both, but now I'll buy some. I've heard Jiffy recommended. Any others, and any recommended sources? Do people ever make their own? The older I get the more I tend to think, "Now if they can make it perhaps I can make it too." Or maybe I'm just annoyed at how dependent I've become on the ingenuity and industry of others.

Jiffy Mix is fine. Many people prefer Pro-Mix but it is very hard to find. Sometimes you can find it at landscaping companies and can talk them into either selling you some or ordering a very large bag for you. You can Google and find recipes to make your own sterile, soil-less seed-starting mix. It isn't hard, but by the time you've purchased the ingredients, you've probably spent more than you would have for a bag or two of Jiffy Mix. The key is just using the correct, specified amount of lime in order to give the mix the proper pH.

Dawn, was your comment about line directed towards making one's own mix? I'm assuming that's the case.

All this talk has really gotten me looking forward to spring which is weird bc I'm already in the grip of fall fever. I may buy some things soon and start experimenting a tad to work kinks out.

You can always grow lettuce now. Start some greens or spinach. Something to play with.

I'll do that. I have some more blue tubs ready and have spinach and lettuce seeds. Would like to try garlic too if not too late. I'll search older discussions. Surely there's already some info on growing garlic on here.

I plant garlic in October. Last year it was the 23rd, my daughter's birthday. Lettuce needs light to germinate, so don't plant it deep.

If you want to do any flowers, I highly recommend Winter Sowing. (There's a separate forum here that is dedicated to the art of Winter Sowing. There is also a FB group.) It's a fun thing to do in the middle of winter, and it is definitely no tech. They also do veggies, but I haven.t tried veggies. Using WS, you will be amazed at the root growth, and you will not have any problems with hardening off...which is was where I always had major failure.

Never thought about flowers before. I will eventually move a cabin into my acreage so some flowers will be in order.

I'll be doing my first winter sowing this year. I like the idea for the reasons stated above, but also because I don't have the space, money, or time to babysit indoor seedlings, and my work schedule won't allow for the normal hardening off procedure. And, if something I winter sowed doesn't work, I'll know in time to buy seedlings from the nursery to plant.

I'll never garden on the scale that Dawn does, but I'm definitely planning on putting pieces of The Dawn Method (TM) into place next year. I'd rather get the bulk of my processing done early too, mainly because of the heat and because I'm almost guaranteed a lupus flare once the mean heat sets in, having things basically ready to just turn loose to grow and harvest (and water and feed as needed) during the hottest part of the summer is a necessity. Also I can't be out in the direct sun for more than a few minutes a day, so I'll always be balancing my time so that I'm doing any necessary work in the evening when the garden is shaded, or on cloudy days, and in short bursts. Getting as much done before July and August is just taking care of myself while still letting me have a garden. Flares zap my energy for about anything more than watering/feeding and harvesting.

So here's to planting out as early as I dare!

Winter sowing is awesome. I did some last year and will be doing alot more of it this year

I have a lot of old stuff that I really don't want to waste time on, so this winter I'm going to clear out my seed stash of everything before 2013. I'll either have a lot of dirt for my garden, or way more plants than I can possibly plant up. Either way, next spring should be interesting.

If you "weren't" looking to become a seed hoarder, you've come to the wrong place, lol. I already have gotten 3 orders of at least 20-30 packets of seeds in each order in the last couple of months. It seriously doesn't help that I keep getting sale emails. They keep taunting me. heehee

I am starting seeds indoor this year again. I am just now back to where I can have a spot for gardening again since moving. Before we moved, I always started seeds indoors in my laundry room in a small window. I didn't have shelves so I just used my ironing board for makeshift during germination time. Gotta do what you gotta do. I always repotted my seedlings at least once into bigger cups that I could plop right into the ground. I used the same paper cups that Amy mentioned so I could rip off the bottom and loosen the roots a bit. It never fails that I will always accidentally tear a seedling in half when transplanting and for this reason I always plant extra. The last year I was able to plant, which was about 3 years ago, I planted at least 500 seeds indoors. I know that's not much in comparison to what Dawn or Carol plant, but I had a smaller area. My kids loved checking on the dirt to see if there were "children" popping through. I might have as well. :D

I will piggyback about this group and their wealth of information. It is amazing, to say the least, the knowledge this group has. Whenever I am trying to grow my own knowledge, I come here first. Sometimes when I read, say Dawn's suggestions, I downgrade it to be usable for me and my small garden. With this group and simply trial and error, you will develop your own niche. Since moving last December, I now have a different soil type than I've had in years so I had to learn how to adjust.

I"ll be incorporating wintersowing and growing seeds indoors this year. I have some milk jugs but I am going to get a clear tub from the dollar store and use that to put in homemade pots (tp or paper towel rolls cut) and number them so I can keep track easier. The hubs told me I need shelves and lights to which I have longed for since moving, but wasn't going to ask just yet as we have other projects we need to finish. But hey, if he insists then it shall become so. I had just plain lights before so I'll get those again along with 3 or 4 shelves. and I'll be good to go.

Oh, and not to contribute to a seed hoarders addiction, but I'm still planning a seed swap later this fall/early winter.

Seed hoarding is the best kind of hoarding there is. Isn't that what winter is all about? Shopping online to add to our seed stashes? Dragging out the seed packets and spreading them all over the table (or counter or desk or coffee table or sofa or floor) on icky, cold, winter days as we select varieties to grow for winter, early spring, mid-spring, late spring and summer? Making lists of what we have and what we need and what we want? Perusing garden seed catalogs and websites and seeing what's new as well as pausing to look at old favorites and to ponder why we haven't grown that particular favorite in a few years now?

Seeds, seed packets, seed catalogs and seed company websites keep our gardening hopes, thoughts and dreams alive in winter and help us plan/prepare for Spring planting. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Every little seed in a packet is a potential miracle, just waiting to germinate, grow and produce. When I look at my big Rubbermaid tote full of Zip-lock bags full of seeds, I don't seed a container full of seeds. I seed a container filled with my gardening wishes, hopes, dreams and desires. It gets me through the dreary winter weather for sure.

I feel same way about seeds being a "potential miracle". Was telling my nephew recently it's one of life's great mysteries for me: how a little piece of nothing will just lie there patiently until suddenly, when surrounded with just the right conditions (moisture, temperature, etc), it decides to become . . . a plant! Which turns out to have roots, stem, leaves! And which eventually produces fruit. It's truly a miracle and I love the anticipation of watching and waiting for the miracle to show its little green head. Getting to eat something is just icing on the cake. I'd be just as smitten with the whole thing if it bore nothing. It can be surreal contemplating one of these tremendous oaks around here and realizing it all came from a tiny acorn.

I agree. I love to ponder the mystery of life that takes a tiny tomato seed planted inside under lights on Super Bowl Sunday and turns it into a plant that is blooming in April and producing ripe fruit by late May or early June. If that is not a miracle, what is? (grin) Well, I guess seeing my beloved Dallas Cowboys in that Super Bowl Sunday game while I'm sowing seeds would be another miracle.

Much of our acreage is heavily wooded and I marvel at the way the woodland replenishes itself with no help from us whatsoever. Most years, I rake up and pick up all the acorns and pecans in the yard and on the edge of the woodland closest to the house just to keep from having to mow down hundreds of tiny trees in the springtime after they sprout.

I grow tons of flowers as well as veggies, fruits and herbs, and love them all. My garden is not a traditional row garden with neat, tidy rows of properly-spaced veggies, each in its own space. Nope. It is a crazy quilt of veggies, fruits, herbs and flowers mixed together in a wild explosion of color in raised beds. Every plant matters, so even when I am tempted to yank out an overly aggressive flowering plant just because it is encroaching on a veggie plant next to it, I almost never do. I just urge the plants to get along and play nice. I do sometimes cut back the flowering plants to reduce their size, but most respond by instantly putting out tons of new growth so it is one of those battles I can't win....but I don't want to win it either if winning means giving up the flowers.

I haven't stepped foot in the garden for more than a minute or two for the last couple of months, having abandoned it when we got too hot and too dry for me to keep spending money on irrigation water, so it is a wild jungle now. I chose instead to funnel my time and energy into the remodeling of our kitchen, but I really have missed the garden. It is so snakey now that it has been smarter to stay out of it than to venture into it, but today I plan to go in there briefly to see what I can harvest. I just have to be careful to get back out of the garden before the sun warms up the environment enough that the snakes come out. Being healthy, well-watered up until the point that I stopped irrigating, and well-mulched, more garden plants have survived and produced than I had expected. I've been fighting snakes and coyotes in the yard something fierce though, and not winning all the battles.

It's been years since I tried to use garden soil in a tray for starting seeds. Seed mix has given me much better results, I believe, for all the reasons Amy mentioned.

For all my gardening experience, I am stymied by growing under lights. It seems that my plants started under lights come up and then, they either die or else they languish until I put them outside. Since coming to Oklahoma, in 2005, I have not had a good experience with growing under lights. I finally took the planter down.

The trees on the southern side of our house have grown so much, that we don't get enough light on the "sun porch" for much of the spring. So, I've taken to starting only certain things indoors and then... moving them outside during the day, whenever possible. I've been known to carry quite a few trays of plants to work with me and then, set them on the roof of my car, at work, to catch the rays. A co-worker refers to my car as the "chia car!"

My favorite trays are plastic dish washing pans. Those have been the cheapest and most durable. I even went back to starting my sweet potato slips in them, as it eliminates mix ups of varieties when I sell slips.

I've about given up on summer squash. It's just too hard to spend all the time and energy to plant them, and have them killed by borers and squash bugs before we get much harvest. I eat immature fruit from Old Timey Cornfield Pumpkin, instead.

I'm also sold on sweet potato greens! I think I may grow even more sweet potatoes in the coming years.

Okra is fantastic for our climate. Beans are a must. I plant Georgia Long Cowpea, which is a long bean. When the summer heat shuts down my regular beans, Georgia Long cranks out all the pods we could want. It shuts down with the first cool nights of fall, and then some of our regular beans kick back in.

Heidi has been the champion tomato for 2016. It survived blister beetles, produced a healthy crop and has gone on to flower and load up with fruit again! Sioux also demonstrates that propensity to set a fall crop of (smaller) tomatoes. Baker Family Heirloom usually produces to frost for me. But this year the blister beetles finished off my BFH planting.

Thanks for this comment George. I may hedge my bets now and in early spring do some under lights and some from sunlight. If the lights don't produce good plants maybe the other method will.

Good luck against the snakes Dawn. I'm sure you have some good, high snake-proof boots?

Oh, and George, I recently read a long 2008 thread here on the forum in which you went into some detail on bean varieties you like and on a particular variety you've inherited and have been trying to save. Inspiring. You encouraged everyone that's inclined to consider committing to keeping alive at least one Seed Savers variety. I haven't signed up as a member yet but I am going to this fall/winter. Thank you.

You can join Green Country Seed Savers too!

Green Country Seed Savers

I'm worried I might kill whatever sprouts but for first time in 3 years I'm pretty sure I'll have a free enough spring to give them proper attention.

Just don't overwater your sprouts and they should be fine. More young sprouted seedlings die due to overwatering and to diseases caused by overwatering than from anything else. (We call this "loving your plants to death" because the overwatering happens because folks are trying too hard to keep the plants happy.) I grow my young seedlings as dry as I possibly can once they germinate and rarely lose a single one to damping off. I water enough to keep their growing medium most but never wet or soggy. This is a lesson I learned early in my indoor seed-starting years when I did tend to overwater and keep things too wet. I do keep a ceiling fan running 24/ 7 in the room with the seed-starting shelves to help insure good air flow which also helps keep diseases to a minimum.

Thanks Dawn. I will be careful. I'm concerned I may now be giving too much water to some seeds I recently planted outside in a container. I suppose I am worried they will be too dry to sprout. They have not sprouted yet though. So it is ok to keep seeds in wetter conditions than sprouts/seedlings? Or should the moisture in the soil be about the same?