Nice setup Hobby! They all look great! I have no idea how close they can be. I know they should be as close as possible. When I use them, I will start out farther and gradually bring them closer to test out for possible burns. By the time it will be my turn, you will have this all worked out Hobby!!

Thanks Laura, yes I will be the guinea pig lol. Well if Steve has them in his light buckets super close to the greenery and contained then they must be able to go pretty close, Steve, let us know if you are reading!

Laura what are you going to put your trees on to get them off the floor?

Your tree's are gorgeous hobby , very impressive setup . I thought you had all your tree's in a couple of weeks ago, me bad .

Brian

Hobby, I am going to order plastic saucers and have also ordered some that roll to make it easier to shift them around. I think some are going to go in my bedroom by my big windows (along with at least one light). I think I may put the kumquats and limequats there. I have a plan...as I need to start bringing them in, I will put the limes in the shade by my house first for a few days...then bring those in...I'll repeat that process with them in order of cold tolerance. I am most worried about the larger trees...Alexander for example is huge! My tangelo is also nearing his height. My guava must have a 6-7 ft span in width. Those will be the most difficult to manage. Many of my other trees are small. I also ordered some taller plant stands to raise them a bit closer to the windows. I do worry about how they will all fit, but we shall see....I am ordering the stands in batches to make is not such a hard hit to the wallet ;-)

Thanks Brian, no they were in my "transitional zones" ie. the garage and multiple unheated greenhouses until now. They could stay out longer but I decided to pull the trigger. I'm actually pleased that they are fitting so well in my room, I probably could have bought 10 more this season and still fit them. Darn- next year lol!! I was also worried about my limes getting stalled in the lower lows.... my thornless key lime is growing gang busters and I want key limes this year!!!

Laura yes your rollers will be pricey! Last year I bought those little plastic folding stools and they worked great... you can sometimes get combo packs of them and it worked out to like $5 each which I thought was pretty good. Those might be an option for some of your trees.

Yes your giant ones will be crazy, can't wait to see pics!

Hobby you make me laugh 10 more, darn it all looks like you could fit another 20 something to look forward to! !!. Hobby I don't know how fast the fruit grow on the thornless key lime but on the thorny key lime the tree I have they grow at an incredible fast speed so if I was to guess itsi probably the same rate so you should have your limes soon yum.

Brian

Hi Laura looking forward to see your tree's placed inside . Sounds like you have everything figured out with least cold tolerant to the most I never thought of bringing them in that way next year. Also I would start off with the light ones first if you want to keep your helpers around so Alexander definitely last lol.

Brian

Hobby, nice trees and indoor set up! Feel your plants leaves nearest the light fixture. If they feel warm, move them away a bit. The CFL, LED and HO T5s run pretty cool and can be a few inches away but the HID run very hot and may have to be a foot or more away. Feel the leaves and watch their color and texture. Gently running a fan through the leaves will cool them, but watch that it does not dry them out too much too. I remember all the worrying I did when I had to travel for work, and all the little tricks I devised to keep them watered, etc. while I was away. If it is only a couple days at a time they will be fine. Sometimes it will be hard to find the time to water when you are tired with back-to-back travel though. Glad I am retired. I feel for you. The travel can be stimulating but it also can be tiring and your regular life goes on hold while you are away and then you are always trying to catch up with your home life and activities when you get back. It is a joy to see your plants when you come home though. But some of the fun dissapates when you are under stress to get all the watering and fertilizing done before you have to leave again. Best of luck with your setup.

Cory

Hi Hobby,

Fall has also arrived in Toronto, with rain and basically no sun for the next week! I believe the CFL should be able to go within 2-3 inches of the leaves without any issue. LED, however, I would caution it closer than 10-14 inches, as citrus tend to get leaf damage from their high intensity (not temperature).

I just purchased a MARS II 1200, which has a wattage draw of about 550 watts and is about equivalent to a 600 watt HPS/MH. I will be keeping this light at least a foot away from the top of the canopy. I also purchased a smaller LED as well. Do not be fooled, the LED lights do produce heat and if you have more than one unit it can be significant enough to raise the air temperature several degrees. I'd definitely advise running an oscillating fan on a timer with your lights. The HPS/MH bulbs are quite inefficient for the amount of heat produced (i.e. dissipated electricity that wasn't even used to form usable radiation for the plants!) and electricity used. I'd advise switching to LED if possible.

Good luck with the transition to indoors!

Stefan

and here I am in "Winterpeg Manitoba" where its going to be warming up into the 20s for highs and double digit temps at night for the rest of the week and into next week which is rare for the end of September. My tree is going to stay outside into October for the first time ever. Hard to believe there will be snow on the ground in about a month.

Thanks Cory you understand! I have my hubby at home to help but I have to provide very clear instructions... Plus monitor the conditions remotely so I can properly advise him. Citrus is my main passion but I also have tons of other stuff growing in ground, probably a half acre or so of veg. I still have tomatoes, shelly beans, potatoes, carrots, garlic, and celery all wanting harvesting, watering, or protecting, plus another 15-20 peppers and figs in containers. Yikes!! The urgency is the problem, when you can take your time with stuff it is fine but when all of a sudden the weather turns you have to stop everything! I try not to get overwhelmed in those moments and try and relax and just have fun. And I think of the dead of winter when I would do anything to be outside lol.

Thanks Stefan great tips! I will be conservative with the lights and see how it goes. So far the cfls seem to produce no perceptible heat. Good info on the intensity of the LEDs I didn't know.

The only reason we will choose either a HPS or MH bulb is because we already have the ballast and he hood to hang it all. Otherwise I would go LED. So which do you think is better, MH or HPS? Anyone?

Yes it's been a great season so far this year hasn't it riguy? Enjoy!

Here are the rest in now, you can't see all in the frame. I will be repositioning them over the next little while as I see how things go! There is a fan on 24/7, it only generates a very gentle breeze, may need another.

Hobby, your setup looks great! You have done a nice job on it and it must be a relief to have it ready now so your beautiful trees can be inside and get settled into their home for the winter. The room looks nice and bright. You will enjoy being in that room this winter..My husband and I made most of our benches for our citrus in the sunroom using the cement blocks also. Very similar to your setup..Very easy and cheap to do..We put a few benches together for our garden last year after seeing some nice pictures on pinterest. It is a nice place to sit for a rest with a cup of sweetened ice tea and to perch your basket of fresh picked veggies on..

Due to some chilly night temperatures into the low 40s I brought my trees in permanently (for good this time :D) last friday. It has been cool, rainy and dreary outside this week, but the sun popped out for a bit yesterday. . The leaves on the trees are starting to turn..The apples have been picked, and the only thing left in my garden is kale, and beans, that I left on the vines to dry for seed..

Today, I will be setting up the lamps in my sunroom with the LED bulbs. The addition of CFL bulbs will help with extra lighting on those dark dreary winter days..

Hobby, beautiful white pots!!! I think everyone in the deep south or with HOT sun should grow in those..They would have a heck of a lot less root death and over heated pots...Great idea and good looking too...I am sorry you had to bring them in all so early..ARG>..Mine are all outside and will stay there until I get more than a few frosts...

Jinny, it comes so fast, fall that is and summer flies by in a blink of an eye((((( I forgot, where do you live? Is out near the East Coast? I feel your pain with cold dreary days...Summer ended like someone put out the flame on a candle..It never had a chance to say goodbye!!!

Hobby - Great setup u certainly can add more trees n totally get it about remote monitoring , I will be away almost a month in early Nov and in addition to clear instructions to hubby I will have a drop cam in the grow room for observation . lol .

Stefan - Makes sense that HID lamps are less efficient but I dont see as much wattage/area coverage out of LED either . The Mars HydroII 900 has a power draw of 389W and supposed to cover 3.5ft * 3.5ft . while my 600W HPS easily covers 5ft * 5ft . Anyway am going to use both this winter lets see how the LED performs

Hi Hobby, Dev

My undergraduate and now PhD studies (I have skipped doing a MSc) have actually spent a large time dealing with incoming solar radiation and the spectrum of solar light -- radiation in general. Currently I'm dealing with some remote sensing from the Sentinel 2 satellite, and am studying absorption and reflectivity of solar radiation by vegetation. Vegetation has a unique signature, it highly absorbs blue and red wavelengths in the visible light spectrum (and even to an extent green which is transmitted through leaves more than absorbed, but this is a very complex topic). It is very reflective to infrared light (you cannot see this without remote sensing).

LED lights have diodes that emit only specific wavelengths, notably those used by the plants the most (blue and red light). I argue that they should be adding some green diodes as well (so does literature). But nonetheless the LED lights have light produced that is almost completely usable by the plants.

HID is a class of bulb. In this class we have metal halide bulbs (MH) and high pressure sodium (HPS). HID class bulbs produce light via electron displacement in atomic orbitals. Depending on the exact gas the spectrum produced will vary considerably. This is the difference between MH and HPS. So the MH light spectrum is generally used for vegetative growth while the HPS is used for fruiting/flowering. However as can be seen in the plot, it produces a lot of energy at wavelengths unusable by the plants. This is wasted light and energy! In addition a lot of energy is dissipated as heat, increasing the inefficiency of these bulbs for horticultural use. I'd personally stick to the MH if you're not migrating to LED.

Hope this helps!

Stefan

Great setup guys! Hobby...you could have bought more trees...lol

Stefan, that is a great explanation from an expert. Thanks for sharing your insights. I plan to supplement the natural light I have in my rooms with LED bulbs...nothing fancy but 6500 lumens - daylight spectrum (is that the right unit? I always get those confused). I will point several of those at my trees that are not as close to the Windows to help them out a bit. Do you think this will be enough? I recently bought a few more bulbs just in case I feel it's not bright enough.

Thanks all and great light info! A whole month dev, wow that will be nerve wracking. Great news that we have a light expert in our midst now yay Stefan!

Exactly!! It's about time we do have a light expert and Stefan, please stick around..We could really us you expertise)))

So appreciated...It dictates to me what I should use and if I can afford it..I can't afford it for now...The RIGHT lights make all the difference in the world without pest issues and weak growth....Just like the proper fish tank lights without growing algae and the like.

Hi guys I'm back from my travels and am getting caught up on all I have missed, glad to see most of you are still enjoying having your trees outside, is it just Jinny and I that are relegated inside already?? Ugh.

Did you know we got major snow already, I got home to over a foot can you believe that? Not impressed. We weren't prepared at all, the hoses are still out, bees haven't been wrapped yet, the list goes on! It is half melted now and should warm up be next weekend but come on ;)!

I'm kind of torn though, as I swear the minute the trees get inside they green up and start flushing! I've got tons of new green growth and even fruit setting. At this time of year even if we are in the safe temp threshold zone I am fairly confident that my trees don't appreciate the wild temperature swings with or without icy ripping winds lol. I noticed this phenomenon last year too. I bet the trees do save energy by not having to battle the winds outside. I do have a fan on them though.

General updates:

-no sign of scale and pests, any scale found is dead- yes!

-fungus gnats are back already, even in the 511. If I could do my 511 again, I would reduce the peat even further. So say maybe 5/.5/1.5 with .5 being peat. I notice my pots are holding way more water inside than outside and probably hubby was overwatering while I was away. I will keep a vigilant watch since I have some 1 gallons that dry out quicker but at this point I would say pots are taking twice as long to dry out now that they are inside.

-Laura I am loving our lamps, thanks for finding them and thanks for the bulb info Steve! They really brighten up any dark zones.

-in general, I'm loving my set up so far and am also enjoying some extra free time knowing that they are all snuggled up safe inside where imminent catastrophe is slightly further at bay :).

Those flowers were still growing and the grass is green under the snow. The trees still have leaves too. My ducks and chickens were surprised!

Wow! Snow!! Welcome home Hobby! I'm glad your trees are doing well, growing, and that the lamps helped. Although I don't want the crowded forest (DH will complain), i like having them around me. During winter, my evenings were spent reading in my sunroom. I will enjoy that again! Keep us updated and show us pics of your new fruit!

The 3 meyers in the front are almost ready!

Big ponderosa flower cluster its huge!

This finger lime is still booming, it is growing from every tip and from new lower branches! It was my best grower this season.

This calamondin was really struggling earlier this year, it had the long straggly bare branches if you recall. It's really come back and is setting some fruit again!!

First eureekas ever, so excited!!

Thanks Laura! I don't mind season wind own by this point, need time to rejuvenate! But snow in the first week of October is way too much.

That snow pic? I am not going to 'like' you on that..lol

So happy to see you're back. You were missed around here..I have lots more to say and will be back later..Love Love Love that set up and I'll be you are so happy to see them all snuggled up..I'll bet you can't wait for the fragrance to permeate that area! I can't believe you have snow! I told everyone months ago it was going to be a cold fall for those of us in the East..It stinks..

Hobby, I forgot..Is that only artificial lights making it that bright in there? Is there natural light too? Can you snap a couple pics of the wall area? I'm curious...You have done a marvelous job. Lol, as much as I hate snow, those potted flowers look so pretty against a white back round..

Hi Laura,

My apologies for the late response. I believe the bulbs you
have will work but I would suggest that you find a way concentrate the
radiation they emit (i.e. some kind of reflective film such as Mylar or a reflective
housing for the bulbs). In addition I would highly suggest both daylight bulbs
(6500K) and warm white/soft white (2700K) to ensure you get a full spectrum for
your plants. I always prefer LED lights since the diodes match the exact
spectrum needed without the other wavelengths that the plants don’t use.

Also welcome back Hobby! We got a pretty decent frost here last night, so the growing season has ended here too.

Stefan

Thanks for the info Stefan! So if I get the other, white/soft white bulbs, should I just put them next to the others? How far away should I place them? I am not sure I can concentrate the light much, but my room is very bright. Not to hijack your thread Hobby, but here are two pics from this morning. The pics don't really show how bright the light is in those rooms. My neighbor had a huge tree taken down last week that shaded my yard and house. Without that tree, there is tons more light. I plan to use the lights to help the plants in the more interior areas of the room.

see my trees outside through the window?

Stephan...What part of the country do you live in? It's getting pretty sad to see the growing season end so quick. Brian says he saw the geese heading south weeks early. The Squirrels have been banking away nuts for weeks now, way too early!lol

Hi Laura,

I'd mix in a few of the cool whites with the daylight ones. They can be placed as close to the plants as possible without burning the leaves. Within 2-3 inches will likely not cause any issues, but test each plant for its tolerance to be safe. I believe you should be okay with the natural light. The trees that demonstrate the most light deficient behavior are the ones to focus the light around. Your trees are wonderful though, and I'm jealous of your open windows!

Mike, I live in Toronto Ontario, but well away from Lake Ontario.

Stefan

Stephen, poor Hobby! A FOOT OF SNOW ALREADY! I feel bad for you guys..I thought I had it tough..I would have to argue with myself all the time as to whether to give up citrus or keep going..As it is now, I plan on letting my figs just croak..It never gets sunny enough or warm enough for me to grow fruit that ripens..It's a hassle to bring all those trees in besides my citrus..

Laura. I know your trees are going to just love it in there.Wait until they decide to bloom in the middle of winter for you) Beautiful area..Love all that sun coming through..Please pray that the tree in my neighbors yards dies of disease, or gets struck by lightning, will you?

LOL Mike...prayers for a dead tree for you!! Mike, why don't you just plant those figs in the ground, near your house...in a sunny area...do you have such a location? They would probably die anyways, but you never know....Why don't you put them on Craig's list and see if anyone wants them? I am going to bring my orchids in soon so they don't have to suffer through these cool nights. Thanks Stefan, I will look into those and see what I can do to weave them in with the other lights.

Hobby, I just love, love, love, your setup! It is so nice and bright, not to mention roomy. I have a whole bunch of those white buckets (frosting) that I got from the WM bakery over the years..We use most of them around the farm for farm use, and, also for tapping maple syrup. Food storage etc..They used to be easy to get, but now everyone else knows about the buckets and they are getting harder and harder to aquire. I have a few of my citrus in those buckets, but, a few of the buckets cracked around the edge from being exposed to the hot sun. Your trees look amazing. I can't believe how much that finger lime has grown since I saw your last picture.. Wow, very pretty tree!! Your hubby did a great job taking care of them while you were gone. Guess what, despite my trees being in a gritty mix formula, I have gnats also!! I noticed them the same week that I brought them in. I have used neem a few times hoping that would help, but, I now need to get some sticky traps. I cut back on the watering and have two fans going. I don't know what it is about bringing my citrus indoors, but like your trees, many of mine have been going crazy with a growth flush. I opened my patio door to my sunroom, yesterday, to let in some fresh air, and, a bumble bee came inside and was flying around pollinating the flowers.. LOL

Jinny, that is funny about the bee! Hobby, I hope those trees are still doing great. I saw somewhere on this board that diatomaceous earth may kill fungus gnats. Why don't you give it a try. I can't imagine a little would hurt your trees.

Thanks Mike! I am still trying to catch up on all the posts, we have had so much to do around here, once the snow flies you are in a rush to get everything done. Thanks I will try to take pics of my other walls but yes I do have a couple windows in my room for natural light. They day I took this pic was very gloomy and dark though so I agree it is quite bright in there. I am just using HO T5s and cfl lamps to supplement.

Good tips about the lighting Stefan thanks! You'll have to update us on your trees too now that that are in for the season.

Congrats Laura on your new light what a bonus!! It looks great just streaming into your sunroom. You always have permission to hijack :).

Thanks Jinny, funny thing about my white buckets, I actually bought them! I didn't realize shops give them away until Dev I think it was mentioned it. I will have to look into some free sourcing next season lol. I don't feel as bad about the gnats now that you told me you get them in the gritty too, gross little buggers! Yes I will have to try some new measures, thanks guys!

I'm off again for another week trip on Friday so I will be spotty for awhile again but I look forward to catching up! Sorry in advance if I miss any posts I will do my best to make them up lol.

Ok, HOW IN THE WORLD are you getting fungus gnats? I have never seen one in mine since I switched over! I think that is strange guys..I hope I never see those guys..Yuk

Hobby,,No problem..Where can one get white buckets? I could use a few actually@!

Great work all..I love all the effort you all put into your trees a nd spaces))

I will be bringing mine in tomorrow. They are predicting 34 F, which is too close for comfort. I am not close to finishing my greenhouse. After tomorrow, temps are supposed to go back up again but I am tired of being jerked around by the weather and will leave most of them in until the greenhouse is done. I will place them near windows and will get some lights.

What about you Mike? Are yours all in?

Hey Vladimir..Mines are all outside still...98 % of them were brought in that cold 34 degree night and the only two I left out weigh a ton and I covered those with blankets..They did very well. As soon as temps rose above 40, they all went outside again..I turned the hose on and waited until the water got kind of warm then watered until the roots warmed up..So far so good..

Vladimir, some of my trees started doing what yours are doing, like in your last post, loosing color and looking deficient in nutrients. Those ones I brought in to much warmer conditions and they have turned green again..It's all about the cold for us and not about the fertilizer since we are using top grade stuff...That is why Foliage Pro is so darn expensive..In fact, half of my trees will look nutrient deficient if I leave them in cool temps, but on most I don't mind or don't worry about it.

Tomorrow night I will bring them all in again for the night and cover with a blanket all three of my bigger trees that I don't think I have shown anyone yet. They are two Orange Trees and one Poderosa Lemon...The Orange tree never reacts to cold weather, always stays green, but the Ponderosa, forget that one. It still grows and flowers and fruits, but the leaves turn an ugly yellow by now..

Mike, I noticed that many of my trees are losing their older leaves but look healthy. Is that normal?

Vladimir,

I can't say yes, because that does not happen to mine...Did the temps fall way below 35 degrees at all just once? Do your trees get direct sun as soon as it comes up in the a.m.? What trees are loosing them? There are a couple of trees that don't do well at all under 40...Which ones Vlad?

Hobby, how are your trees looking these days since they have all been inside?

Are you getting any of our warm weather? Mines are all back outside for a week or two, if we can maintain temps temps above 35 degrees..S

Mine are too Vladimir. They also look great. I think it's normal.

Mike I buy my 5g white buckets at home depot, they are the food safe kind. The 3g I get from my honey gear supplier, they are a standard honey pail size, also food safe. Not cheap but not crazy expensive either. I had tons of the 3g kicking around from my honey harvests so they started me off nicely.

Trees are looking good, fungus gnats still raging! I am pretty sure my husband slightly overwatered while I was away but my pots really take a long time to dry out in my room even with ventilation. So I will definitely be letting them dry out more now that I am back and can monitor properly.

I am pretty sure this tree is carrying way too many calamondins but they are so cute I can't pick them off!

Meyers I will harvest this weekend. They aren't full color but the squeeze test is telling me they are ready!!

Dying for this kiyomi tangor to ripen! This will be my first mandarin type I have ever grown!

First ever eureekas progressing nicely.

New bearss finally getting settled.

New Meyer flowering nicely... Still having a leaf color problem.

North facing window.

South facing window. It's a gloomy day today but when it's sunny light just blasts through this window.

I can't get great shots of my trees in the back but they are putting out tons of new growth! The thornless key lime is still growing and flowering profusely but won't actually hold any fruit yet. The ponderosa lemon is going crazy too.

HOOBY, ABSOLUTELY AMAZING THERE! I LOVE that variegated one..So beautiful!! Hey, unless you know how to make jam, what else are Calamondin fruit good for..? I like to leave them on too, especially if colorful like that. So pretty..They are an Ornamental Tree anyways! Just a wonderful job there. So much fruit and so much greenery...By the way, is this the first time with lights all winter? How do yours do n your lights and in that room? Do you get pests or leaf drop in time?

You must love the smell of that room..

Hobby, your trees look great! I love that variegated calamondin. Vladimir, I noticed that a couple of my trees dropped maybe 3 leaves - between the two - all old leaves. I think it is normal drop and that we notice it now more because they are inside. So far, I have not noticed anything out of the ordinary. Hobby, my thornless key lime is also growing like crazy. That is one of the ones I put in my son's room because he is so tall.

Thanks guys! Mike this will be my second year with trees in the room but last year I made many mistakes. Last year they were in old very boggy mix in terra cotta, I kept the room too warm which encouraged pests since I also brought figs, peppers and herbs in with the citrus, and also I never treated for pests before they came in so scale got way out of hand. In spite of all that most came through ok but still needed a lot of recovery time outside. The yuzu is the only one still lagging but it is now replacing its leaves from last year so is otherwise almost recovered.

This year I corrected all those issues so I think I am in good shape! Plus I added more lights for the darker areas and am prepared to add a few more if needed.

I am also curious about Laura's question on her thread about fertilizing, they all have fresh osmocote in the pots but I think I still need to keep up light FP correct?

I have also lost some old yellow leaves since they came inside. Seemed like normal sloughing to me.

Love the thornless key lime too Laura! The thing just keeps growing but wont hold any fruit yet. It's definitely big enough, I will have to be patient- sigh!

Hobby, looks like you have your citrus head on right...Yes, you have come a heck of a long way and I think you will be very successful this winter..Like I always say, watch out very closely for pests...You will notice the signs if your leaves start to get pale, buds start falling off, leaves look dry, new leaves come in deformed, of if they start to curl..I think with all that spraying before you brought them in will either delay onset of pests or at least help you to control them)