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katherine_byeon

Flooring Installation Nightmare

10 years ago

Can someone help me out with some valuable opinions please? I am paying $4 per sq ft for just the installation of engineered hardwood floors. I've purchased the flooring materials myself.


When the floors arrived Friday 16th, they acclimated the material for three days. They started the prep work on Tuesday 20th. The installation began on the evening of Wednesday 21st.


Move-in day was booked for Wednesday 28th Morning.


When I went over there on the evening of Monday 26th, only the living room was done and floors were initially installed looking like the pictures. I had to make them adjust the joints the next morning because it really didn't look very good at all.


I also have noticed that these folks have not used glue or any underlay on top of the concrete subfloor, saying that they don't need to. They told me that the bounce in some areas of the floor would apparently not be noticeable when the trims are back in.


I've gotten some quotes from other flooring people and they all have told me that the installation part only takes a couple of days, especially if there are no furniture in the house. It's only a 900 sq ft space.


They delayed the moving to Thursday 29th. I went over to the house tonight and they were loudly cutting and installing the flooring at almost midnight:( the floors still have areas that look bad.


Now they're telling me that they might have to leave the trim undone until after the move.


The thing is.. I naively paid the workers the full amount of $3600 with cash upfront. They're not terrible people and I was recommended these guys by someone that is trustworthy and amazing, so I completely trusted the workers too.


What should I do in a situation like this? :(

Am I being too unrealistic with my expectations? I don't even know what to feel anymore. I mean, what if I am still very unhappy with the way that the floors were installed? Do I just have to let it go?


P.S.

Yeah, I am way too trusting of people:( I should really learn my lesson and stop being so naive I'll be better next time I promise.

Comments (25)

  • 10 years ago

    What is the brand and model of the flooring? Is your concrete floor perfectly flat? What qualifies these installers as flooring installers other than the word of someone you trust? Because nothing you have said nor the pictures you posted show me that they are anything of the sort. From what little I see and what little I know they did everything wrong, but without more info it is impossible to tell what would be correct. But it looks like to me a total do over. Are they licensed and insured because since you paid them cash that may be your only resort to getting new flooring otherwise the replacement and correct installation will be all on your dime.

  • 10 years ago

    What millworkman said, unfortunately for you.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Send those pictures to the friend that recommended these people so they can spare someone else the bad advice. I'm sorry, but the only thing correct about that project is that they might have the "right" side up. Bad deal. Hopefully your loaded and are able to pay someone else to come in and do the job over. Completely.

  • 10 years ago

    I can see why you're upset! I hope you can find someone to do this right for you.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    No. No. No. No. Please make them stop and don't pay them anything more than you already have.

    I'm sorry but this is a complete do-over. This is what a floor looks like when "Chuck in a Truck" comes by and installs the floor. A "guy with a hammer" will install a floor like this. That same guy having bought his first hammer last week.

    A floor such as this, should be allowed to acclimate a bit more than 3 days. As we get closer to winter, we need to allow the floor MORE time to adjust from the cold/damp warehouse to the warm/dry house. I would prefer to see 1 week at this time of the year.

    The 'bounce' in the floor = need floor leveling done. That's extra. I always assume $1/sf for floor leveling in the budget (is NOT included in the $4/sf to install). A nice subfloor is less money (bonus) a bad subfloor can be $3-$4/sf to fix (yikes). I'm sure yours is only $1/sf range. But you have to tell them you want to pay more for the subfloor prep (sigh...I know...how many of us willingly want to pay more for a job).

    And to be clear, a well versed hardwood flooring installer can have a 900sf subfloor dealt with in 1-2 days. And the install will be roughly 2-3 days...for one person. But that person needs to know what they are doing.

    I'm sorry but there is no salvaging this floor. I'm so sorry. The only thing you can do is stop the work, order more flooring and bring in someone who knows what they are doing. These guys are clueless.

    I'm so sorry. This will probably have to go to small claims court. If you want to go that way, you can have it inspected ($500 - $750 is the "going rate" for NWFA Certified wood flooring inspectors). With photos and a wood flooring inspectors report you will win the $3600 + material costs. You might be able to get reimbursed for delays for moving...but I doubt it.

    Good luck. Please stop them and save what material you have left.

  • 10 years ago

    "I naively paid the workers the full amount of $3600 with cash upfront. "


    Forget the inspector and small claims more than likely and brace yourself for the entire nut all over again with the proper professional.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    That acclimation period is fine for most engineered floors, but it sounds like everything beyond that is a mess. There isn't even a place to start with questions, because whatever your answer happens to be, in the end you will most likely still need to find somebody that knows what they're doing.

    The state I live in requires you to give the contractor an opportunity to correct his mistakes, so before you hand them their walking papers you may need to give them a chance if you have any hope in taking them to court. You may not need to call an attorney yet, but I'd start asking looking for somebody to turn to it things don't get better.

  • 10 years ago

    No words.

  • 10 years ago

    That looks like maybe 1/16" of "wood" over some type of hardboard substrate? Where'd you find that material? Not liking anything about this job. A Pro would have insisted on using his trusted suppliers as the first measure of quality control. Most flooring professionals do no hire out just the install without having control over the product too. Too may recipes for disaster that way. Not that these guys had a clue on that front, just a FYI for your next go round after you rip that cheepchinesecrapola out and start over.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Hack job. Do you have a contract?

    "They're not terrible people" Yes they are. If you don't know what you're doing, and you take someone else's money to do a horrible job, the you are a terrible person.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I've seen posts here describing a nightmare when someone has a few unfilled cracks or chips but yours is truly horrible. These "installers" are obviously completely lacking in knowledge and skills.

    You wrote that this is engineered hardwood but to me it looks like strand Bamboo. Is it actually engineered? If so, what type? Is it plywood core of fiberboard core? Or is it actually solid? One slight good thing is that if it's solid strand Bamboo, you'll have a well acclimated floor.

    It appears to be click lock. Do you have any type of written contract? What does it say? Does it mention glue? This type of floor could possibly be glued but is more often floated over a foam underlayment. Did your deal include labor only?

    I'm usually one to be moderate and try to work out a problem (because that's often the fastest way to a resolution) but you need to go after these people with a vengeance, if you can stomach it. If they don't make this right, a lawsuit is in order. Is there a local licensing authority that you can inquire with, without putting your home's progress at risk? How about the IRS for them getting paid in cash and probably not reporting it? Do they own any property you can attach if you get a small claims court judgement?

    The only redeeming thing I can see here is that it's quite likely that the floor can be taken up and and reused since it's click lock and not glued. You can buy more to make up for what they wasted. Purchase a high quality foam underlayment like Floor Muffler and have the low spots in the subfloor filled. Jambs need to be undercut. End joints need to be staggered by a minimum of 9". End joints need to be random and not line up across the floor.

    My first reaction would be to want to kick these guys out of the house so fast they'd end up in orbit. Perhaps with the threat of a lawsuit they would cough up money to replace the material they ruined. I assume they have tools and some type of skills to the point that they could be directed to get this done right. You would have to buy the underlayment unless your contract stipulated they provide it. If they have a minimum of carpentry skills, they could hire a qualified installer to oversee the project and this could be turned into a positive.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    @cancork - You insulted Chuck! Even semi-pro floor guys don't do jobs that look like that. Most guys with a DIY level of skills and tools get better results than that.

    Around here, cash work with straight lines and undercut jambs would probably be $2/sq ft.

  • 10 years ago

    Honestly this is probably one of the worst jobs I've ever seen.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Sad

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    @Linda - Chuck can handle himself;-) With that "tailgate warranty" of his, he makes plenty of money without doing a darn thing! But yes...even this job would be considered an insult to Chuck's abilities as a conman/"guy with a hammer".

    It is one of the worst I've ever seen - whether DIY or for money (I hate to use the word "professional" for these guys).

    I hope the OP updates us at some point.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    On craigslist they have A "Best of" button to click for these guys...

  • 10 years ago

    BTW (if the OP is even reading these posts) I would recommend AGAINST what Carpet One Columbia recommended doing. The person that referred them is in no way responsible for the bad work. Bringing it up will probably only serve to poison the relationship. At the most, if the person who recommended them asks, tell them that the job wasn't good and that they shouldn't recommend them again.

  • 10 years ago

    Wow. And double wow. You should be glad they DIDN'T glue it down, because that will make it easy to tear out and re-use most of the pieces. Who doesn't know that you stagger joints?

    #WorstJobEver

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Any updates?

  • PRO
    10 years ago
    I'll save you the inspection fee:
    No mc readings found?
    No fastening system?
    Layed out incorrectly
    Installed all wrong.
    That I'm afraid is a complete tear out.
    I feel your pain. This goes to show you can't trust referrals and this demonstrates the need for customer education.
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    The return of Ultimate Hardwood, welcome back

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    This is pretty much one of the worst jobs I've ever seen. I'm sorry for you, seriously. That is F*ING terrible. Definitely a total tear out, unfortunately.

  • PRO
    10 years ago
    Thanks Tundra!! Ha ha. As for this shoddy dyi'rs trying to be hardwood pros - give them the online review they deserve ---with pics!! Lol
  • 7 years ago

    Flooring Specialist for over 40 years. I’m in St Louis. This or these people are NOT floor installers. Maybe wannabes.
    Terrible job. End joints should never be even. I usually make them 3” 6” 9” never smaller than 3” on ends. Measuring first before start you figure this out. Also it’s a MUST to have a moisture barrier top on concrete. Also before start you run a moisture barrier test. Cheap way is plastic 12” x 12” clear plastic sheet taped down around edges to different areas to see if there is any hydrostatic pressure if there is by beads of water on the underside you should not use wood. Mildew only takes 3 days to grow. Will cause a musty smell and health hazard.
    I would go to 3 floor companies have them tell you how much to make right including tearout and if you by that time have furniture remove and replace. Then go to the men doing job they either replace and do it right or you will sue them plus punitive damages for the bid amounts you got plus you will go to all the tv stations to see if they would air their work and they might never get any work around that tv viewing area. Hope you got some paperwork for the cash you gave them and signed to do the work. Plus you can put a lien wave on each of them. If you gave them cash with no paperwork of agreement then you got duped and have to live with it. Take it as a lesson learned.
    NEVER EVER AGREE WITHOUT A CONTRACT even if it is a sub-contractor. Has to be signed by both parties and dated. If they want upfront money for labor tell them to take a hike.
    After job you inspect it have them guarantee it for 1 year or more and sign plus get a lien wavier.