Sorry you are going through this. You're right; he's wrong. This is what security deposits are for.

I'm sorry. I had a very brief phase as a landlord and it put me off of the prospect of ever doing it again. And my horrible tenants were relatives, which made it even more fun.

I'm sorry he's considering court. Is there a landlord-tenant law in your city that allows for a hearing? Consult with an attorney in your area, but if so, it's just a matter of both sides putting on their cases and a judge deciding. It is probably limited to the amount of the deposit (no additional damages available against you, assuming he left on his own and wasn't alleging some sort of uninhabitability). If you have pictures of all the damage, that will help. Also estimates from pros of the costs to repair (even if you later do the work yourself).

Yuck. I hope you took your own photos before you cleaned up and repaired after them.

Landlording is a tough business and you have to know your local laws like the back of your hand.

Hopefully our had a solid rental agreement. Don't stress. Wait for their next move.

Thank you everyone for your comments. Cawsps, thank you for the positive reinforcement. Jakabedy...relatives. Ugh, I feel for you. I made the mistake of renting to a friend that needed help. Never again. I spoke to my atty last week, and he encouraged me to keep what I did. And yes, I do have a strong lease and, artemis_ma, plenty of photos. He argued the cost of a repair. I told him that was an estimate and they are completing the work on the 18th. (They are really booked). Jn3344, thank you. For some reason, your "Don't stress. Wait for their next move" helped me. It is like a game of chess. Just wish I could fall asleep now....

Ugh. I feel your pain. I manage rentals. I love when they move in to a completely renovated apartment and get surprised when they move out months later after painting their last name on the wall and leave a review about how they left the place cleaner than when they moved in and that they had to pay for painting.....

Never rent to friends or family unless you don't want to get paid

Just be sure, in keeping some of the damage deposit, that you follow the law exactly. In our state you have a certain period of time to give the tenant a written, itemized list of what you are keeping the deposit for - and you'd have to prove it was given to him (via a letter sent to his last known address, which would be his new one if he gave it to you, or mailed to the rental address if he did not, or by personally giving him the list). If you don't do that and he takes you to court, he would get all the deposit back (despite the damage) and you can be assessed a fine equal to the full deposit amount for withholding it illegally. So be sure you are up on what the law requires in your state/community.

I don't know why good LL's end up with jerky tenants and vice versa. I hope it works out ok for you.

Olychick, I did exactly that. We have similiar state laws. I mailed it in required time frame, repairs are all itemized, and post office provides a stamped/dated form that on X date, I mailed a package to Mr & Mrs at new address. I am upset that he's involved my new tenants, went into the house, and was so ugly with me on the phone.

Oh, and Kippy, I can't imagine doing this for more than one rental!

'Future Tenants' let him in?? I think he got in there illegally. I'd explore that route and use it as leverage.

Guy's a father? Tell him to act like one and teach his daughter what responsibility is and to respect other people's property.

LOL the renter actually complained? You need to LET IT GO!! My son spends HOURS scrubbing and fixing to save his deposits from places he rents and he has yet to get any of it back. Any 'mess' is just normal wear and tear... It seems the usual is, deposits are not returned. Even if there is no damage owners use deposits to professionally clean rugs and re-paint etc. There are rough people in this world. They do what they want-and then make a stink at every turn. They have learned SOME times their rudeness pays off. Don't let it this time. Frankly I think you should have kept the all the deposit and said "you broke the lease by smoking on my property" and left it at that.

So sorry! We have multiple rental properties and sadly what you describe is the norm. Rarely will a tenant leave a property with just normal wear and tear. Read up on your security deposit laws and I hope you have documented the damages and your deductions. At this point you should have an attorney involved. Your new tenants never ever should have let him in your property. I don't think his evidence would be admissible if it comes to that, it was after the end of the lease and things could have been fixed by then.

I hear you. I wish you could've had a me (not any more. I own now)! I've been the best tenant I could, but I realized my worst has been far better than others' best, most of the time. I've been given back my deposit when there was a bit of damage, my fault, because the rest was stellar. I've been given back my deposit and extra because they were able to sell the place immediately and they were thrilled with how it looked.

That said, next time, do a periodic check on the property, e.g. every quarter? Might head off problems early on?

My experiences as a renter ( decades ago ) were that there were never security deposits returned. I scrubbed and cleaned several apartments believing that money would be returned and it never was. I was not given letter of explanation and by phone was rudely told it was a cleaning fee, My landlords knew I didn't have the money to take them to court so they felt free to rip me off. I was young and stupid. And they knew it.

OP, sorry for the headaches and I truly hope you prevail in court if it comes to that. But I must ask--in how bad a condition was the place if you found new tenants? Either place wasn't that objectionable or new tenants didnt mind and will be as "careful" as prev tenants. .

DH rented a house years ago to a non-paying tenant. When DH confronted tenant on issue, a gun was pointed at him. Took several months to get rid of tenant and some more to sell. What a nightmare it can be.

Before buying my current house, we lived in an older rental with a really nice, fair, honest landlord. When it came time to discuss the return of our security deposit, we both acknowledged that one of our cats had shredded some of the grass cloth wallpaper in a tiny hallway and it needed to be replaced. Then she admitted to me she had forgotten to put our 6-year-old deposit into an escrow account that would accrue interest. Because of that, we decided no-interest vs. wallpaper damage to be a wash. She returned our entire deposit. :)

I have come to the conclusion that many people are just gross. Lifestyle wise and personality wise. I am sorry you are going through this.

When we were young and moving around often we always got our security deposit back except one time. The yard was filled huge pines trees. DH mowed the mediocre lawn and raked the pinestraw and cones next to the trees, which was a common way in the neighborhood to neaten up the yard. One of the things on the ridiculous itemized list of deductions was pinecones! I can laugh at it now but we really needed the money back then.

My husband and I have been landlords over 30 years. We have returned the security deposits in most cases. When not, the tenants left for non payment of rent. We have never had to evict anyone.

Lazy_gardens and Rob333, I will write a lease addendum for the future tenants, I like those periodic checks.

Back in the days when rentals were painted only in white, I got bold and painted the main wall of MB a very dark brown. I lost my $200 deposit b/c the had to repaint. I didn't mind too much.

State law may also allow you periodic inspections as long as they are reasonable and you give the mandated notice. in my state It's a two day notice.

That's horrible. I hope you get the jerk out of your hair. He violated his lease and then trespassed (in a way).

I think it will pass, I really do. Keep us posted though.

Haven't read most of the responses, but Lizzie, I hope you documented and took pictures because if you did then you have nothing to worry about. Actually, you can counter sue at the same time to recoup all of the expenses to put the rental back to it's original condition.

I speak from experience, I've been through it more than once and although it's a hassle I went into it well prepared and walked away with very good outcomes; you will as well.

Some tenants are great and I have returned lots of full deposits

on the other hand, I have been in units so greasy you don't need tape to hand things on the kitchen cabinets. Or so dirty the floor was black everywhere but under the trash can. Or ones that complain of ants and have jelly running down the cabinets. One used a bedroom as an open aviary another used the bathroom as a bunny hutch..... or fiberglass shower stalls with walls in shades of black green and pink (ivory after cleaning) or the one you could not tell the difference between the white sink bowl, chrome faucet and fake marble counter for the tooth paste shaving cream and hair. I have one worse but don't want to make anyone sick. These tenants all lived like that after being told to clean and given months to do so

Everyone, thank you for the great support, feedback, advice and stories! I was feeling so upset last night. I now feel like I got a big group hug. :-). Kippy, omgosh...I would probably lose my mind if I had renters that sloppy. Bossyvossy, I have great photos of the home (when it's not damaged) plus, it's in a great neighborhood with desirable schools. The future renters saw it when it was totally chaotic and the current renters had boxes and stuff strewn everywhere. They filled the application out immediately after I showed it to them. I suspect it is because the photos really show it off.

good move re: pictures. Wishing you the best as renting is a HARD job.

Since rental lease laws vary by state I don't know if this will help you in this instance but when my kids were renting in Philly the landlord had to walk through the apartment with them when it was vacated to document conditions. The landlord then had 30 days to provide a written estimate of repairs and to refund the security deposit (minus damages).

Periodic inspections is a great idea and even if this isn't required where you live it might help you avoid future conflicts.

Olychick - "State law may also allow you periodic inspections as long as they are
reasonable and you give the mandated notice. in my state It's a two day
notice. "

If they are reasonable and in the lease the maintenance visits can be with less than the xx hour notice and as often as the landlord and tenant agree to ... because the tenant agreed to it and signed the lease.

The 48 or 72 hour notice is for an "I'm coming in whether you want me to or not" sort of visit.

I hope that you have before and after photos to show to the judge in court. You need that to prove that he destroyed your property and that you have a right to keep the disposit. Good luck with your case. Think about requiring a deposit lrg enough to cover damages like this. Also make sure that you ck out potential tenants thoroughly, credit, etc. Good luck with your new tenants!

Ugh, I hear you. When I was little I used to help my dad clean his rental properties after people left. I can't believe how little respect some people have for other's property.

When I was in my early twenties, I had a small cleaning business and would clean vacancy apartments. I remember one oven that I opened .....looked....and just shut it. They had a fire in it. Solid black.

Another....walked in and laid cleaning supplies and white trash bags down. I started hearing a snap, crackle, pop sound. I looked over at fleas jumping all over the trash bags. And the worst....bathtubs that are so dirty that it looks like they've lived there years without cleaning it. So gross.

I feel for you and hope everything turns out positive.

DH and I are considering venturing into a purchase of a house or condo as a rental. I guess I need to do my homework!

About 15 years ago we rented an apartment while we waited for our house to become available, hubs and I and 2 kids..we were there one year. About a week after moving out our landlady arrived at our new home and handed me cash, our security deposit in full with interest. She said we were the only tenents she's ever returned their deposit to.

I hope you get this ironed out...the no smoking in the lease should be a major factor..cleaning smoke out is not normal wear and tear.

So sorry for what you are going through.

We have rental properties, but have never had quite the situation that you did. The most recent was a young girl who had a cat and when she was about to move out, we discovered the cat urinated all over. We did take out part, not all of her deposit, for the cost of having the apartment thoroughly sanitized.

Side story: Our DD's rented apartments all through college. One daughter had a small kitchen that had space for a cabinet. My DH installed it and it looked great!

We thought we were being generous by leaving it, as it upgraded the kitchen. No, they charged us for leaving it. I really wanted my DD to go back and see if they actually removed it but we never did. Rules are rules.