Nope. Don't apply lime without a soil test. If your pH is high, it will make matters worse.

Have you tried some Ironite? It greens up nicely. If you're low on Fe, the soil test will show that as well.

Also, post some pictures, overview and closeups. Could be disease yellowing your grass.

Well it's dark now, dangit! I'll try to get some snaps tomorrow. Please have mercy, I said it's getting better ha ha.

It just seems to me something is out of whack in the soil, and the nutrients aren't available to the grass and it won't green up like it did in years past. We did have a lot of rain this year, and the lawn never went into dormancy and looked fairly decent throughout the summer. I was kind of hoping to build on that and really turbocharge the fall root development.

Planning on one more N application (Urea) 10-10-10 in the next couple weeks. Before the ground freezes, after lawn stops growing.

Is a hardware store pH test suitable for this? I just need a ballpark correct? The backyard is mostly fescue, with a lot of shade, by a large river birch. Front yard has a Colo. Spruce, took out a Green Ash a couple years ago.

I aplogize, I should have been more precise. It contains urea and ammoniacal nitrogen, e.g. it's not a slow release fertilizer. It's my understanding that the winterizer application should be fast acting, not slow release. I've been using the Scott's step program ferilizers as well as 10-10-10, at a ratio of 1 lb. N per 1000, one app in late spring and 3 to 4 in the fall. The phosphorous and potassium can't hurt anything can it? It's cheap and is important for the root system from what I'm reading. Basically I've tried to keep fertilizer apps running constantly this fall since late september with what I have on hand. This is more than I ever have in the past, and expected better greenup. As growth slows down, at least I don't have to mow all the time! So I'm hoping all this N will put the roots in good shape for next season.

Tex with 1 pound of tripple 10 would be a tenth of a pound of N how often are you putting that down? Should be putting down st least half a pound down

Yes it would, but fertilizer is generally applied at a ratio of 1 lb of N per thousand, not 1 pound of fertilizer. See the difference?

Ahh my bad I read your comment wrong. I see my mistake. Thought you meant 1 pound of triple 10. Not 1 pound of N. I was going to say how are you seeing any result haha my bad.

The phosphorous and potassium can't hurt anything can it?

If your soil has excess you don't want to be adding any more on top. It can throw off your soil balance. Switch to a high N lawn fertilizer for now and get the soil test done. Exclude the top inch of soil when sending in the sample. As a winterizer use either straight urea if you can find it or Scott's Winterguard which is high in water soluble nitrogen.

Wait. You mean more isn't better? ha ha. Actually applied Winterguard, in fact, a couple weeks ago. I had applied a heavy app of 10-10-10 prior to that. Since it didn't really green up like I thought it should, thought maybe I got short sheeted on the N or it was defective somehow! It does green up some but not the dark lush.

Winterguard is slow release and "guaranteed not to burn" and we had a good rain since that app, this is why I was starting to wondering about the soil balance. I was hoping there was an easy quick pH test and worry about Boron and Molybdenum and the rest of it next season?

You said, OK, I have been following the standard KBG guidelines for irrigation, weed control and fertilization the last couple years

What does that mean? What is your normal irrigation? How often and for how long?

Forget it. Never mind. I'll figure it out. Thanks.

I was hoping there was an easy quick pH test and worry about Boron and Molybdenum and the rest of it next season?

I can't recommend the pH test kits found at big box stores, they are inaccurate. The full test will show you CEC, organic matter content, Ca, Mg, K, P, Fe, and all those things are very important to determine how to proceed. You don't want to be adding dolomitic lime for example if your Mg is already through the roof. Just adding lime blindly isn't going to get you anywhere and may make things worse. My suggestion, get the soil sample, send it in, it will be the most worthwhile $25 you ever spent on your lawn.

Forget it. Never mind. I'll figure it out. Thanks.

No need to get upset. David is one of the nicest people you'll ever meet, he's just trying to help. Most people water wrong, and watering is the #1 thing you need to nail down for a nice healthy lawn.

Soil science has increased our knowledge by leaps and bounds over the last 75 years, and continues to do so, but it also has revealed how truly complicated the soil system is and how much more is needed to be understood.

Amending soil without a soil test is akin to to a cook adding spices to a broth without tasting it. It may work or it may end in disaster.

I understand your thinking. P and K are major nutrients necessary for root growth and health: however, studies have shown that at some point, P can create deficiencies in Fe and Zinc (among others) and both Fe and Zn are necessary for chlorophyll production ( that green color you want). Also once P levels saturate the root zone, studies have shown that the plant roots terminate their current mycorrhizal hyphae connections and repel future hyphae "infection" until P levels drop ( which can take a very long time--years). Hyphae are a major pipeline for P to the plant, but it is also suspected that it supplies other nutrients in addition, so a loss of the connection very likely will reduce the availability of other nutrients needed by the plant.

There are no known toxic levels for Potassium soil levels. High levels of K can have adverse effects on soil structure that can result in increased compaction, less soil spaces for water and air.

Increasing pH with lime could result in iron deficiencies (lighter green color) as Fe becomes much less available to the plant as pH approaches 7.

Excess P, K and pH take a very long time to re-balance.

And then there are the recent studies showing that excess ammonium N content can be very detrimental to mature plant health. (see previous post by lisa-marie.)

A soil test is an invaluable tool and some can give you more useful information than others.

Winterguard is slow release and "guaranteed not to burn" and we had a good rain since that app, this is why I was starting to wondering about the soil balance. I was hoping there was an easy quick pH test and worry about Boron and Molybdenum and the rest of it next season?"

I would not consider Winterguard slow release. It is 32-0-10, so that means that 32% of the bag weight is Nitrogen. If you read the analysis on the bag, it shows you that 6.8% of that Nitrogen is slow release. In other words, about 25.2% of the total bag is fast release Nitrogen. http://www.scotts.com/smg/products/CFLS/SC-TB-WGFallFood-2015-CFL.pdf

Their guaranteed not to burn promise... the bag rate actually doesn't apply a full lb of Nitrogen per 1000 sqft. The small 12.5lb bag, for example, will cover 5,000 square feet. 12.5 lbs * 0.32 = 4 lbs of Nitrogen. 4 lbs N / 5k sqft = 0.8 lbs of nitrogen per sqft. This breaks down to be about 3.15lb fast release N across 5k sqft, or about 0.63 lb N per 1k sqft. For the slow relaase, it's about 0.85 lb across 5k sqft, or about 0.17 lb slow release N per 1k.

Again, that's all at the bag rate. This plays a big role in their guarantee not to burn. It gives the Average Joe home owner some wiggle room just in case they accidently overapply or put down too much. In addition, the presence of some slow release fertilizer adds some extra buffer to preventing the burn. Their bag rate is insufficient to achieve optimal results.

You should really be targeting the 1lb N per 1,000 sq ft per application. You could achieve that by spread the 12.5lb of Winterguard across 4,000 sqft (instead of the bag rate which calls you to spread across 5,000).

12.5*0.32=4 lbs of N.

4 lbs of N / 4k sqft = 1 lb N per 1k sq ft.

That would still provide some "burn protection" because some small amount of the total N is slow release. However, you would at least be feeding at the correct 1lb/1ksqft rate. That should provide you more desirable results.

Sorry I was in a foul mood yesterday AM.

Yeah, the True Value guy where I bought it said Winterguard could be laid on a little heavy. So I set the mini edge guard to 4 instead of 3.25