Atheen, I am no expert, but I suspect the tree is acclimating to the lower light levels by shedding some leaves. Meyers are notorious for that. Mine has not dropped any yet, but a few other trees have.

John, Laura, thank you for stopping by. I did that. Partial sun on the deck, then full shade (still outside in the deck) before bringing the trees inside about 10 days ago. They are now right on the other side of the window they spent their last 10 days outside. So, no, I didn't bring em straight in. I'm green, but not that green.

Here is where they were

And this is where they were moved. You can still see them outside

I did the same last year, didn't have any problem, but the tree was A LOT smaller. It grew incredibly this year.

Any other ideas?

.

Atheen

Well, the Meyer has an earned reputation of being "finicky" when grown in containers. Grown in ground they are pussy cats; and in the field as a crop they are even more forgiving. There are other reasons Meyers will drop a lot of leaves, such as over watering or letting them get too dry and then watering. Last year I was gone for 2 weeks, and two of my rooftop container trees got very dry; when I watered them, they dropped every leaf. You might also consider that for your largest, the container may be a bit small.

Classic leaf-drop, no doubt increased by lower light values.

Be sure to rotate/turn your tree so that light strikes the tree as evenly as possible. The good news is that the tree will replace those leaves during the Summer.

Are you fertilizing? If not, that could be compounding the issue.

Josh

Not fertilizing during the winter, no. My sensei (aka Mike, lol) doesn't believe in fertilizing in the winter when inside, saying it promote spindly growth. I guess I could fertilize lightly until they get used to being inside? I have to ask Mike about that.

I'll start rotating in the meantime. Because the drop is really localized to the part that gets the least light, I truly believe that field be the issue, here.

Atheen

Meyer Mike? He and I both fertilize during the Winter the last I knew. He's the one who got me into citrus :-)

There are only two or three weeks during the deepest of Winter when I taper off fertilizer. But as soon as February breaks, I resume fertilizing with a vengeance. If you're using a mix like the 5-1-1, you should water and fertilize consistently.

Josh

I'm going to fertilize lightly also bc my trees are all actively growing. I guess I've gotten lucky...or maybe my Meyers are not as finicky as yours...I've had a few trees drop leaves but my Meyers have not dropped any yet. I agree with John...even though they did not move much, they are still getting less light. I would turn them like Josh said...it might help. I find it hard to rotate my biggest Meyer because he hardly fits!

Alright, so I got back last night, late. I did rotate my light sick tree before we left on Saturday, and I did put the two grow spotlights I had from last year under the tree's canopy as well. I know they are supposed to be closer to do much good, but I figured they couldn't hurt and I didn't have anything to lose.

Only 2 more leaves fell over the week end and 2 when I shook the tree this morning. That's a LOT less than what it had been last week. So, hopefully, it liked the rotating and the two spotlights. Fingers crossed.

Now, for the $100 questions:

1. How often do I rotate, and do I leave it on this side a bit more to re strengthen the light depraved side first?

2. What about the other tree, that hasn't lost any leaves (maybe 7 since I brought it in 12 days ago, and they were all already weakened by the cold roots outside before I brought the trees in).

Here they are this morning

I've angled the lights exactly where the tree was losing leaves. It's on a timer, goes off from 10pm to 6am.

Josh, it's indeed Mike that told me not to fertilize in the winter, so what you're telling me is really confusing. Hopefully he will see this post and jump in:)

.

Hope y'all had a great week end. God bless.

.

Atheen

Hi Atheen...Please link me to where I said not to fertilize at all..I am thinking you may of misunderstood me or I may have mis communicated my suggestions..Please find where I said that so I can be accurate or correct something I may have said..

What does concerns me is that fact that the leaves look like they have wilted? Did they drop at all before this happened or are they droopy now? They look limp. That is a tell tale sign you have a root issue going on there...I would not fertilize it all until you know the roots are no suffering at all....Did you ever let it dry out too much or water too much recently? Was that tree exposed to any cold temps at all before you brought it inside?

Thank you))

Hi, Mike, thanks for stopping by. Here is the thread where we spoke about winter regimen and you advised me to skip fertilizing all together in the winter.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/3370823/calling-in-the-meyer-lemon-gang-of-experts-for-advice-on-winterizing

Quote:

"mikerno_1micha(Zone 6a, Massachusetts)

September 16, 2015 at 5:22AM

Hi Atheen....

Mines are always fine for the months of November, December, and January without a drop of fertilizer..Go light on it for now and pull back since you don't want to push weak growth to come inside..You want the leaves to harden off and hopefully stay that way until you grow new ones in the spring. It's bad enough that any growth we get during the winter is spindly, soft and susceptible to pests, especially mites, but to encourage it makes no sense unless your up for a battle..It won't do any harm fertilizing in the 5.1.1 mix, and in fact many encourage to feed all year, but I have avoided a host of pest and leaf issues holding back..I just don't; have the FULL sunlight, long days, and strong lights to make it worth my while)"

Unquote

Yes, the trees were getting too cold towards the end before I brought them in. They were not exposed to frost, however, a few leaves turned yellowish, I was told because the roots were getting too cold and that it was pretty common. Was that you? I can't remember. Here are a few pics of the trees reaction to cold and a few leaves yellowing from it when they were still outside.

When I brought them in, I watered just beforehand, and they were subsequently left without watering for 9 days. They always take longer to dry when I first bring them in for the winter. Last year, I think either you or Al explained that one they get acclimated inside, the roots will absorb the water faster. I was also told to Err on the side of dry rather than wet when I first being them in, which is why I waited 9 days.

I have watered once, no fertilizing, since I brought them in. I watered like I did last winter, until I saw water flow through the bottom of the pot. I only added a cap full of vinegar, no fertilizer. Then I drained the extra water from the saucer until it was all gone.

Mike, the leaves that have dropped almost exclusively dropped from the area I circled in red at the beginning of this thread , and it only started about a week after I brought the trees inside.

Since I watered, rotated and put the spotlights below the canopy, the leaf drop seems to have significantly slowed down.

Here is a pic from tonight, 11pm.

That's the one that was losing leaves.

That's the smaller one

Closeup on the smaller one

Closeup on the bigger one that was losing leaves.

Do they look droopy to you? I thought they looked OK.

.

I'm really glad you popped in.

.

Atheen

Atheen,

Your trees look absolutely beautiful. They have come a long way since last winter! You may very well lose some more leaves from the light transition, but they'll rebound in the spring when you set them back outside again. Regarding watering, I don't know if I'd put it off a solid 9 days... maybe every 5 or so? Just stick your finger in the wood, disturb it some, and see how damp it is. If the top inch or two is still damp, you probably could hold off on watering.

-Tom

Johnmerr mentioned the importance of warm roots. Mine are staying outside this winter and I wondered if anyone had ideas on how to keep roots a bit warmer outside (zone 8b/9a). Thanks to all for keeping the forum going!

Hi Atheen....I am glad to help you)

Any environmental change can cause stress. From mail to your home. From nursery to home. From outside to inside . From cold temps ton heat. Just a different area from what it's been use to sitting in . From high light to low light . From outside light to inside light conditions. The good news is that we can minimize the impact as much as possible with a few tricks !

Yes, just as I thought...I didn't make a blanket statement not to fertilize at all, because every one has a different set up as mine, live in different climate zones, provide different conditions, and yet and all plants need nutrition when actively growing ..

I have no problem not fertilizing although one should pull back, meaning go very light on fertilizing..People like me have too because if I fertilized the way I did during the growing season, meaning all months other than October, November, December and January, I would get spindly growth and pests. My growth would not be hardened off before they are exposed to much less light and I would be inviting a host of problems...That is why I am lazy about fertilizing my trees or not at all. I have no issues with them at all holding back all together....Many cause root issues especially up here in the north once their trees are inside especially with poor soil mixes, salt toxicity, inside heated dry air, no air movement, poor watering habits and poor lighting, and if they are not careful can damage roots/trees even further with fertilizers..That is why unless I am growing my trees under strong lights, warmth, full sun or greenhouses, and know that the roots to my trees are functioning properly, I err on the lighter side of fertilizing during the coldest darkest days of winter and fall....I can fertilize in the 5.1.1 mix because it is a much more forgiving mix, but I still have to be careful)) I personally don't like to fertilize at all during November, December and January, any of my trees in less than ideal conditions..

Yes, I think the leaves up in the top pictures looked droopy and I tend to think you hold back on watering more than you should or water too much. I think you should use a wooden dowel until you get use to watering now that they are inside....If you let those leaves droop just once, it is common for severe leaf loss or drop suddenly to boot..If they stay wet to long just once, they will drop leaves just after they are brought in..If I am going to be growing any of mine inside my warm home, I better keep those trees exposed at temps above 50 degrees at all times outside or I am going to loose many leave if not all..That is why many bring them in at night when temps fall below 50 and out by day a few weeks before they come inside..They are use to warm temps that way and experience less shock once inside. In fact, the stress sustained from warmer inside temps is much more stressful on my trees than the sunlight. I can guarantee you that if my trees that are use to the colder temps on the porch on my 3 seasons porch were all of a sudden exposed to very warm temps for a couple of days by day and night, I would loose just about every leaf on all of them. Less direct sunlight and very warm temps, I mean what people are use to heating their homes with, usually above 65 to 70 night and day combined with dry air.

Regarding acclimation to temps..I have been growing citrus up here for years, and I know that if trees are left outside to be exposed for long periods of cold weather, they will drop leaves when all of sudden exposed to warm dry temps, and then compound on that less light...Many seem to think only the sunlight matters, but then many don't experience what we do here up north..Sticking our trees inside warm dry homes is another stress related issue when they have been use to cold temps...))

Personally, it took me 'years' to finally control leaf loss and pest issues..I never have drastic leaf loss or pest issues unless I was to blame.....You can be in control)

Have a beautiful day..I'l bet once you water properly, the tree gets use to dry indoor temps and the lack of sunlight it will be just fine)))) Good job for catching this problem from the start!

May I suggest that many Bookmark this thread since it is a common problem and questions with most northern growers ?

Suzu.

I would partial bury the pots if I lived there since the ground acts like a thermal blanket.

Or you could stick your trees against the pavement or up against your home since pavement holds Heat and your home walls can create a Warner microclimate.

Mike, those are good suggestions. I was thinking the opposite actually- to elevate the pots to keep away from low area cold spots but that I realize that brings more cold wind exposure, if not placed against a wall. I have a brick home and will move my lime tree (only 3 feet tall) to a spot on my front porch that gets a lot of sun but would be out of the wind and near the brick. That is the one I worry about the most. I have a blooming hibiscus placed there now, so it should be a good spot. Thanks again for the suggestions!

Mike, thank you for your advice and support, as usual :)

I've had a couple of leaves drop overnight, but nothing drastic. I think its time I rotate the tree again on that matter how often do you think I should rotate the tree?

I don't know if it's a factor, but the leaves that fell were pretty pale bordering on yellowish. I checked for pests, didn't find any. Do you think it might be because i went from heavy to no fertilization at all?

I'm all out of skewers, but I'll get some today and post a pic. I think it might be time to water soon. It'll be a week tomorrow.

Thanks again for the help, everyone!

Atheen

Atheen...Hey, your trees should no signs of any change even if you pulled back from fertilizing right away..If anything, it would show over a period of time depending on how active they are growing..I still think it was a watering and temp isssue.

In all the years I have been growing citrus, I can tell you that the BIGGEST thing that accelerates leaf loss in 1, trees being introduced to very warm temps and dry air in homes after being use to the cold, a lack of sunlight from not acclimating them before they come in, under watering or over watering, or root damage..

By don't you go to Lowe's or Home Depot and pick up wooden dowels? You never have to throw those out and they last forever...Get some the thickness of a pencil and sharpen the ends with a pencil sharpener or knife..They are a life saver for most people not use to watering in the 5.1.1 or gritty mixes..

May I ask a question? How do you check for pests? What are you looking for? Where do you look? How long do you stare at one spot?

Mike))

Mike, i bought a huge magnifier, and I check the front and back of leaves, i check for spider mites webs at the top of branches, i check for sticky stuff on branches and if i find any i check for scales on the branches. Takes me about 10 min per tree.

I did acclimate my trees to the light difference, all the way to full shade all day, before i brought them in. I also keep my house a lot cooler than usual because of the trees. The second tree, that is a lot smaller with a lot less canopy, might have lost 7 leaves in total since I brought them in 2 weeks ago. I think that the bigger tree might have bigger light needs because of how much bigger and denser canopy, but again, i don't know...

As a side note, they are blooming like crazy right now.

If I buy those dowels, how do I use them?

Atheen

Just got back from Michigan where we spent the week end. Skewer was still slightly damp after 5 seconds in when we left on Friday, so I decided to water today when we got back. Still didn't add any FP, just the vinegar, as per instructions

No leaf loss at all while we were gone, which was a relief. The small tree had nothing to report. The bigger one decided to sprout everywhere. Took a couple pics.

There's more, but you get the point. I hope it's a sign the tree's starting to be happy inside.

Hope y'all had a great week end.

.

God bless,

Atheen