If you cannot use an herbicide, then you are stuck with having to comb every scrap of root out of the garden manually.

I was afraid of that. If I used Round Up now, would it have any effect on a plant that is essentially dormant and would the residual chemicals be gone by spring? I would like to get 3 or 4 new roses in this area next spring.

It has taken me years to (almost) get rid of Chuck and I'm not sure of success yet because I've Cosimo Ridolfi in the same bed, another gallica, and it's difficult to tell the suckers apart. You must be vigilant, all suckers must be ripped out at once. It's hard when there are plants you want to keep like a daylily infested with suckers. Good luck!

(My husband laughs hysterically when I tell him about this post!)

^so did I Marianne.... that did make me laugh..

Never heard of Brush Be Gone, but I do have a reappearing wild blackberry in the middle of a rose bed that could use a dose or two. Yes, Charles is one Gallica that has to earn his keep by being well behaved as well as a handsome fella. I believe he may be moving toward dormancy, as Carol said, instead of actually being dormant. We have not had a hard freeze yet. I appreciate the info about Brush Be Gone. Good to know for invasive Gallicas that may be planning a coup to take over entire gardens.

Trospero, looks like I will be combing through the soil for roots before the ground freezes. Round Up is a last resort because many of my neighbors are on wells. Mariannese and Marlorena ... I missed the joke, unless it's that getting rid of Chas. is an impossible and futile task. Digging up roots in this weather isn't a happy thought, but I can at least get started. Thankfully, there are no daylilies or other plants he could be entwined around.

I believe you can also brush Round Up on the cut ends of the canes and the poison works its way downward. I've never tried it but, if you need to use a poison, this seems a lot better than drenching everything with it.

Thank you, Ingrid. That makes a lot more sense than spraying it over the whole area. There are so many canes protruding from the ground, so it would be tedious, but worth the trouble. This is going to be a bigger job than I first thought. As soon as I started cutting this monster down, and saw all those shoots, I knew I was in for it.

Roundup on the cut stumps / canes should be applied (brushed on) immediately after cutting and the plant should NOT be in dormancy. Juices must be moving through the cambium for the herbicide to be effective. Best time for a decidous plant is while it is preparing for dormancy (i.e. in the fall). Failing that, next best time is when the plant is FULLY foliated in the summer. Roundup should NOT be applied in a dilution suitable for foliage application but it should be concentrated (at least 18% concentration).

Assuming all this growth is mostly connected through the root system underground there will be no need to treat all canes. Just select some, the most actively growing ones.

Thank you, nikthegreek! I'm going to start pulling up as much as I can, but may have to depend on Round Up. I can cut the canes lower into fresh tissue. Yes, I understand it should not be diluted to foliage strength. There are times when chemicals are necessary, I guess. Wow, Athens! Bet your roses are perfectly gorgeous!

Good luck, Flowersaremusic! Let us know how you fare. Carol

Thank you, Carol, I will no doubt need that luck, from what others have said about kicking Charlie to the curb. Mariannese said her's took years. I do want to look into Brush Be Gone, too. I won't know for sure until spring, but I will post an update. The suckering is the only thing I have against this rose, and it was my fault for planting him in the wrong place. I am saving one of the off spring to plant in a more appropriate place where he can sucker to his heart's content.

I'm glad you are keeping a piece of Charles for relocation. He's like no other. If I gardened on soil larger than a postage stamp, I'd surely grow him. I do grow several other real estate hoggish Gallicas. In early summer, they make my heart sing! Carol

I also kept a piece of Charles in grass, not in a bed, and hope to keep him in check by mowing. It is a rose I don't want to be without, the blooms are perfect.

Agreed, Carol, and mariannese, this is a beautiful, fragrant rose. However, I didn't plant it properly 15 - 18 years ago, probably just stuck it in the poor, rocky, clay soil. (I don't do that anymore.) Consequently, he wasn't as gorgeous as he could have been...short blooming period and small blooms. I know how to plant a rose these days, so will do better by Charlie Jr. Mowing those suckers to the ground is such a good idea! The things you learn here!!

flowersaremusic, when I read your first post I thought you had it all wrong. It's not "goodbye Charlie"; it's "so long, see you later", lol.

He WILL be back. Bwwwah hahahaha (cue creepy background music).

And I've resorted to the "gallica in grass" method. It does work, although they still tend to take up more territory than you intend. You'll need to decide how much territory Charlie Jr is allowed, and then be merciless with the mower. None of this mamby pamby stuff of "those sprouts just look so healthy...and cuuuuuute. It won't hurt to let him spread just a little". He'll take advantage of your good nature and before you know it you have a thicket of good ole Charles that you can't reach into the middle of to prune. Ask me how I know :) I've also used bamboo barrier in a large circle, which is effective for a few years, but over time it seems to limit the healthy new growth for some reason.

Anyway, I have many gallicas, and nothing compares to that Spring flush. So be not dismayed. Joy awaits, lol.

After spending way too much time digging up the old gent's roots today, that do seem to go to China, I clearly see that you are right. There's no getting rid of this guy. Not sure if I can persuade my husband to let me plant a rose bush in his lawn, but that's my plan. There ought to be a warning posted on gallicas at nurseries...a big Truth About Gallicas sign. How well do they fare in pots?

Eventually Gallicas become pot-bound, but you can grow one in large a pot for awhile. Or you can do so for quite a long time if you remove the plant and thin it (like separating irises on a grand scale) and replant a chunk in the pot and begin again. Change the soil when you divide and replant, and add nutrients in between soil changes. If I ever grow Charles again, this is likely how I will do it. I have near zero bed space in a shoehorn garden. He isn't as full and glorious in a container as he is when roaming the garden, but a potted Charles is better than no Charles. :-) Carol

Thanks, Carol. I have a few half whiskey barrels I could spare. However, I know the bottom rots out of those, so he would eventually be growing roots into the ground and continue to sucker from under the barrel. Seems that rose is determined to have it's own way! Can't believe how naive I was when I planted it.

Ha! Ha! We've all been there. You are soooo not alone.

Thanks, Carol. Misery loves company.

A friend suggested solarizing the area. It won't get the deep roots, but will at least give me a running start at getting the job done. The ground froze before I got any Round Up or Brush Be Gone. CdM is not going anywhere. He'll be waiting for me in the spring. And, boy, do I have a surprise for him! (Sounds so menacing!)

Here, the only thing solarizing accomplishes is making a nice, warm, comfy greenhouse. Do you get real summer heat? If you don't usually have nightly lows in the 70s, I just think any shrub will laugh at the idea.

Sorry to be insensitive, but Charlie sounds lovely in his own way.

Oh, no, mad_gallica. Thwarted again! Is there no way to get this thug out of my garden?! However, we do have very hot summers that rival So. Calif. summers with temps hovering around 100. Charles can go ahead and laugh - he's already laughing at me. I can take it.

Sheila, CdM is absolutely lovely and one of the most well known and beloved OGRs. Some gardeners wouldn't be without him. In fact, I will replant one of the large suckers where he can spread and reproduce to his heart's desire. In my ignorance, I planted him in the wrong place 15 - 20 years ago before I had a clue about the different varieties of roses.

Solarization must be performed during the sunniest months and, in a cooler climate, I believe it should be performed using black rather than transparent synthetic cover. I'm not sure though what it can accomplish with regards to woody shrubs. It does get rid of weeds very nicely for some time though.

I've used a type of brush be gone on invasive roots. I think my bottle says "Stump and Vine killer". It comes with a little paint brush attached to the lid. I dig down and then apply it to a cut I have made. It works well and I like that I just paint it on one little spot. I've never needed it for a Rose, but I think it would work. Lisa

I appreciate that suggestion and I'll look for it, Lisa. The more I think about it, solarizing may be a waste of time since it won't get the deep roots. The Stump and Vine killer or Brush be Gone - whichever I can find - might be all I need and also be good to have on hand when new suckers appear from roots I miss the first time. I was hoping to plant 4 new roses in that area in the spring, but that will probably have to wait another year or two.