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Masterline Commercial Grade Poly - WATER BASED

9 years ago

Some information, please:

Floors are newly laid White Oak Grade 1

What is the process for finishing using this poly? [sand, apply, apply second coat? third?]

What is drying time?

What is curing time?

Any information is would be handy to know before the paper comes off the floor?

Comments (23)

  • PRO
    9 years ago

    Sorry but the only thing I can find on this product is OIL MODIFIED. VOC content: 550g/L (compare that to CARB II requirements of 275g/L) and the clean up is with MINERAL SPIRITS.

    Hmmmmm. That SCREAMS OUT oil based (more oil based than water based).

    If you want a water based polyurethane, you will want to keep searching. The only thing I can find is about oil based or oil modified. Not a SINGLE piece of data indicates "water based" (oil modified comes in MANY variants such as REALLY oil based right down to only a little bit of oil based...and with VOC content 550g/L...you are in the Minwax range = full oil/solvent based stuff).

    And the interesting thing is, I can't find an independent website for this stuff...which is ANOTHER flag that says this is someone's "off-brand" where they are trying to rebrand a product that they do not WANT people to know about. And the TDS (technical data sheet) has a heading called: Duraseal-masterline-tds....so my suspicions are confirmed.

    Duraseal PROPER sells water based. Might as well use the name brand than the off-brand. Good luck. This is not a water based product...not with those VOC levels.

    Vi Truvian thanked Cancork Floor Inc.
  • 9 years ago

    Thank you, for getting back to me. I don't know what this means: And the TDS (technical data sheet) has a heading called: Duraseal-masterline-tds....so my suspicions are confirmed.. If you have time would you get back to me.

  • PRO
    9 years ago

    If the data sheet is tagged to DuraSeal...it means it is a Minwax/DuraSeal product. That means this product is from the makers of Minwax/DuraSeal which is why it is hard to find any information on it...it looks to be an "off-brand" for lower level purchases/projects. I'm always suspicious of the cheaper off-brand versions from the head company. It means they are packaging one of the "other" products and rebranding it to move more product - at a lower price. It is one way to move product without damaging the main brand.

    If you want to work with the Minwax/DuraSeal products, you might as well stick with the mid-grade DuraSeal...especially if you want to work with a water based product.

    Vi Truvian thanked Cancork Floor Inc.
  • 9 years ago

    That is really inexpensive for floor rated polyurethane.

    As Cancook wrote:

    Masterline Polyurethane Commercial Grade Wood Floor Finish
    (semi-gloss sheen) is a durable finish suitable for large volume
    applications such as meeting halls, multiple-unit dwellings, and other
    commercial uses. It is available in Gloss, Semi-Gloss and Satin.

    see Masterline Polyurethane Wood Floor Finish technical data sheet
    manufacturer part# 02742633462
    packaging: 1 qt metal can

    Product properties:
    • Dry time and cure:
    - allow to dry fully for 8 hours before recoating
    - wait overnight before allowing light traffic
    - wait 48 hours before replacing furniture and rugs
    • Coverage: spprox. 500-600 sq. ft. per gallon
    • Clean-Up: clean applicators with mineral spirits or paint thinner
    • Storage: store at room temperature. Keep container tightly closed

    Physical properties:
    • Resin type: Oil Modified Urethane
    • Density (lbs/gal): 7.30
    • Solvent: mineral spirits
    • Viscosity: 200 cps
    • % Solids: 44.0
    • VOC: < 550 grams/liter
    • Flash point: 105°F (Seta Flash)

    Vi Truvian thanked User
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Puzzling not to find information online about this product.

    sorry, I should have rotated the above.

  • PRO
    9 years ago

    Yah...we know. That's why we are suspicious. The tell tale sign: clean-up. A TRUE water based polyurethane = soap and water. Oil or oil modified = mineral spirits.

    Check how much it costs. If it is less than $130/gallon then it is low-end. Have fun.

    Vi Truvian thanked Cancork Floor Inc.
  • 9 years ago

    Cost is a big reason I used an oil based poly on my new(in 2008) hard maple flooring. The oil based was about $45 a gallon(with a contractor discount)---water based was twice that. I used six+ gallons.

    Vi Truvian thanked User
  • 9 years ago

    I just learned that contrary to manufacturer instructions, which say "use two coats on white oak", only one coat of DuraSeal DuraClear sealer was used on my new white oak floor AND THE FIRST COAT OF MASTERLINE WATER BASE POLY WAS APPLIED ON TOP OF THE WET SEALER. A second coat of poly was applied ~20 hours later. What problems might I be looking at with the floor. I have a 74 lb German Shepherd.


  • PRO
    9 years ago

    The problem is the refinisher's lack of patience/knowledge. The "over top of wet sealer" is a BIG no-no!!!! Sigh. This is a learning experience for both you and the refinisher.

    The two coats of sealant are to prevent tannin pull - that's when the yellow/orange tones in wood move to the surface to YELLOW the floor. The sealant is there to prevent that. A wet sealant hasn't "stuck" to the wood yet. And the finish applied to that wet (unbonded sealant) might have adhesion problems...or could cause yellowing...or could have a chemical reaction that causes the finish to turn cloudy...or all of the above.

    These chemicals are not meant to be "mixed" which is what just happened. They are designed to "grab" each other when one is dry and the other wet. The possibility of this finish failing sooner rather than later is very high. So high I wouldn't let them continue as-is.

    Personally I would stop this and make them do it again. Properly. For the same amount of money that you originally agreed upon. And then do NOT use them again. Someone doesn't know how to use water based poly over white oak. Hopefully they will learn a little bit more by working on your floor.

    Good luck.

    Vi Truvian thanked Cancork Floor Inc.
  • 9 years ago

    Dear Cancork Floor Inc, I am so grateful for your patience and knowledge. You are extremely generous.

    I returned home today and I don't image it will be a surprise to you when I say the application process was defective in many ways. We have stop/stop lines throughout, uneven color, foot prints and dents. That last, I just don't understand. There are too many of them to be accounted for by dropped heavy objects.

    The floor will be redone, at the contractor's expense. I will find my own highly rated floor finishing company.

    Again, thank you. Without you I would have felt alone and crying out in the dark. A bit melodramatic, I know, but nonetheless true.


  • 9 years ago

    Cancork, why do the words 'thank you' seem so lame when you mean them the most? But that's all I have to offer. Thank you.

  • PRO
    9 years ago
    Masterline makes great omu. Water hybrid?? Never heard of it. Yeesh
    Vi Truvian thanked ULTIMATE HARDWOOD LTD
  • 9 years ago

    Ultimate

    omu??


  • PRO
    9 years ago

    Oil Modified Urethane (OMU)...which was the data sheets we found for you above. We forget that the flooring industry is full of abbreviations...just like the medical field. 'Alphabet soup' we call it.

    Vi Truvian thanked Cancork Floor Inc.
  • 9 years ago

    Back on the wood horse [ no, not the one of Trojan fame ] but this time with

    an awfa accredited refinisher using

    DuraSeal® DuraClear™ Water based Sealer

    and
    DURASEAL® WATERBASED POLYURETHANE

    I'd cross my fingers but I'm just plain too tired.

    You were my light in the dark, Cancork. Thank you.

  • PRO
    9 years ago

    ;-) You are very welcome...and I'm sure you are in good hands with the NWFA certified pro. It is one of the few "accreditations" we have in the flooring industry and it is voluntary. It takes time and money to become NWFA certified (because you have to voluntarily travel/pay for the courses and the 3 nights stay in hotel...etc). Once certified, the door opens for these professionals. They are the personality types that take pride in their CAREER (this isn't a job for them...it is a career path) and pride in their craftsmanship. Almost half of their work comes from fixing other's mistakes. Which means you are far from being alone (although it felt like it I'm sure).

    I really wish you all the luck in the world. If you have finished results (in a few days once all the work/coats are finished) I would love to see them posted here...to prove that there are a few professionals out there who are not scammers.

    Vi Truvian thanked Cancork Floor Inc.
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Happy to post the attached:

    FLOORS HAD TO BE TAKEN BACK TO NATURAL [just love wood, so beautiful]

    THEN 2 COATS OF DuraSealSEALER AND 2 COSTS OF DuraSealPOLY Satin

    Cancork, I will live with these floors and be pleased, I will remember your kindness and be grateful.

    Hats off to you and your fellow professionals. We need you.

  • PRO
    9 years ago

    :-) Congratulations on your floor (I love natural wood tones as well...so easy to live with)! All I ask is that you leave a review for the professional who did it properly. That way more people can find him/her for the next job! Happy Holidays! You now have a fully functional floor that should be ready for the season!

  • 9 years ago

    I have left a glowing review.

    Best of the holidays to you and yours.

  • 9 years ago

    Cancork, I'm back. My dog [75lb] wants to know when she can walk on the floors. She can't find the answer online.

  • PRO
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    On the DuraSeal Water Based Polyurethane write up (on their website) it says:

    http://www.duraseal.com/products/finishes/water-based-polyurethane/

    "Allow one week before exposing finish to rugs, cleaners, spills or heavy traffic"

    That is your "cure time" = 1 week. To me that says 7 DAYS (full days at 24 hours per day).

    It is as simple as that. Just be aware that MOST water based polyurethanes allow a "damp" cleaning after 14 days. Sweeping = 1st week you are on the floor, and then the first damp clean = 14 days after the last coat of polyurethane was applied.

    There you have it. If your floors were finished on Dec. 16th....you should be able to allow regular life (furniture, rugs, dogs, people in shoes, etc) to START sometime on 23 December = today.

    Vi Truvian thanked Cancork Floor Inc.
  • 5 years ago

    Hi, we are having our floors refinished...these are 100 year old oak floors which were in very good condition prior to refinishing... they had a golden finish on them and we wanted to go darker. We hired what we thought was a professional floor refinisher but now we are wondering about his practices. They heavily sanded the floors down to bare wood, then filled with wood filler, then they applied the stain (Duraseal Coffee Brown). there were several places where they missed applying the stain which we asked him to fix prior to applying the polyurethane. He did not fix these areas before applying an oil based poly (Masterline-Satin) after two days of drying we met him there and noticed that the finish looked as though it had been applied in different directions...across the grain, angle to the grain, etc...there were obvious lines made from the poly and it had a very uneven appearance all over in every room. (Red flags going up) He said it just needs hand sanding and reapplication. He hand sanded (again in all directions) then he called us and said he wanted to switch to a water based poly instead). Red flags continued to go up in our minds so we asked him to stop and give us a chance to get a second opinion before continuing. Throughout the job they tracked in their sanding dust every time they came into the house....on bare wood, after stain when on and after one coat of oil based poly. Every time my husband and I entered the house at the request of the refinisher to ok the stain color, etc... we were asked to remove our shoes and only walked on unfinished floors with socks on our feet. We were amazed that he allowed his guys to walk into the house with sanding dust and dirt all over their feet and tracked it all over the house. Anyway, I could go on about the unprofessional behaviors of these guys but...at this point we just want to get the job done correctly and get them out of our house once and for all. Would appreciate your feedback and your thoughts on allowing them to finish and if so, can you educate us on the products they should be using and the completion process from this point. Thank you.