Tania's site lists a bunch of Brandywine varieties/strains, too.

Peter :

Purple Calabash --- wine-like taste

corrected pic....

For best tasting tomato --- Brandywine Sudduth !!!

Merry Christmas to all!

That Purple Calabash is truly a "wow"

Merry Christmas to you and all tomato friends.

Sey

Yeah those are beautiful tomatoes!

Not to be a party pooper, but that photo of Purple Calabash is almost certainly color tweaked digitally or suffering from weird lighting, as I've never seen a photo from a trusted source or an actual PC at a farmer's market, etc. that was that color. Photos from reliable sources show it to be not that unusual a color, i.e. a brownish maroon. Maybe it has the capability to get somewhat more intense in color than some of the other black tomatoes, but they are also often average or less intense in color.

For example, see the page on Tania's site, which shows pics from growers in PNW Canada, Texas, and Germany. http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Purple_Calabash

Note the range of colors in this guy's fruits in a pic taken in outdoor lighting with few signs of color distortion elsewhere in the image: http://sapport.scribble.com/Mainpages/still/varietydatabase/Tomato/TomPurpleCalabash02.jpg

Note results by Territorial Seed, which is in OR: http://www.territorialseed.com/product/Purple_Calabash_Organic_Tomato_Seed/organic-tomato-seed 

And this guy has an heirloom tomatoes photo page hosted at UNM that has some tomatoes that were photographed well (i.e. photographed for fairly accurate representation vs. artistic presentation): http://tierra.unm.edu/~jnekola/Heirloom/tomato%20pics/purple_calabash_A.jpg

Another caveat: that variety is notorious for cracking, for being lumpy and irregular in shape (not talking about the fluting but overall lumpiness) and really crazy degrees of catfacing. Many people who report on it call it the ugliest tomato they have ever grown.

That said, I do plan to grow it one day because of its reported very distinct flavor. I always am interested in trying tomatoes that sharply divide people's opinions. But I suspect just because of where most of the positive reviews come from that it has better flavor in hotter areas.

Probably the color that camera has captured was at low light. Also maybe to color intensity and changes at various ripening stage. This pictures depicts something that as if it has some antho . But whatever the reason, it looks awesome.

Sey

Wow you must be really sure of yourself to call someone out on posting a fake picture.

I have decided to try 2 new beefsteak tomatoes - 1 plant each.

I am thinking about trying the Carbon which Johnny's now stocks, which is an heirloom black tomato (new heirloom? Hmm..) that resists splitting and cat-facing, according to their description. http://www.johnnyseeds.com/new-for-2017%21/new-for-2017-vegetables/carbon-organic-tomato-seed-3763G.html?cgid=new-for-2017%21-vegetables#start=1

I get the feeling I might not care for the flavor much, but I am going to give it a try.

I think I am going to give Johnny's "Quisenberry" (Sudduth) Brandywine the #2 slot.

I will grow Golden Rave as my sauce tomato (thinking 6 plants), and Yellow Mini as a Sungold replacement cherry/salad tomato (1 plant). So that's 9 plants total. I will check my layout and see if I need to tweak the grow numbers. This year I grew 5 plants and it wasn't enough, I didn't can/freeze anything. I would like to be able to can some Golden Rave sauce. I may even bring them up to 8 plants to ensure a sauce harvest.

Merry Christmas! Perfect time to pick out those seeds. :)

There is no anthocyanin expression in Purple Calabash. The photo is definitely not accurate, and low light would not alter the color spectrum in that particular way. I suspect based on how the green areas look, that it has been deliberately tweaked. Maybe someone did so for artistic effect for some unknown purpose, but it has been picked up on various websites and used as though it were a straight photo of the variety for the precise reason that it looks so unusual and impressive. A seller on AliExpress has even used the photo to sell seed (although one on Amazon has a photo tweaked to make PC look like it is bright neon fuschsia, LOL).

If you look at seed sellers with a good reputation who carry this variety, it never ever looks like an antho tomato. It ranges from a lighter dusky bronzey pink to dark brown/maroon with green shoulders, just like many other black tomatoes.

Peter: Wow you must be really sure of yourself to call someone out on posting a fake picture.

Peter, unless 14_tomatoes is a William D. Adams who posts on a website called "Masters of Horticulture", that is not his/her photo. I doubt that 14_tomatoes intended to pass it off as his picture. A lot of times, people will post photos here from around the Internet as reference. It's very common. For example, the Brandywine sudduth photo is used on the Renaissance Farms website, shows up a lot on Pinterest, etc.

As 14_tomatoes did not represent the photos as representing his/her own tomatoes, I assumed that this is what happened here. I'm not accusing 14_tomatoes of any deception at all.

But yes, I'm VERY sure that that photo of PC is in no way an accurate representation of the color of the fruit, and I'm pretty sure that the color was manipulated either deliberately or accidentally, as I have a lot of professional experience touching up and altering photography digitally, so I'm pretty good at picking up the signs.

Peter: I am thinking about trying the Carbon[...]
I think I am going to give Johnny's "Quisenberry" (Sudduth) Brandywine the #2 slot.

Solid choices.

Peter: Yellow Mini as a Sungold replacement

Johnny's sells Esterina F1, which is often mentioned explicitly as a Sungold replacement for being almost as or even sweeter than Sungold but with much less splitting because the walls (not the skin, but the fleshy walls) are reputed to be thicker. It's also apparently a semi-multiflora with very high productivity. Sey has tasted it and spoken very highly of it, and I'm thinking of growing it side by side with Galina's (OP Russian yellow cherry) this year.

Just as a side note, it would be great if people would credit the sources of photos when they post them from other sources for reference purposes, with a link back to their source.

I am not accusing anyone of wanting to be deceptive or anything. It's just good practice to give credit. Although I realize that the culture of respecting intellectual property never really took off on the Internet, and a lot of people borrow and use stuff not maliciously but simply without thinking about such issues at all, it's good to credit sources and I try to do so, although I, also, sometimes forget.

My apologies to all for the Purple Calabash controversy. I got the seeds as a bonus pack without pic from the source below (since their pics are copy righted, I could not post theirs). I looked it up on the net and this one was the one I found closest to their description:

"Probably the
most 'purple' of all the purple varieties. A distinctively beautiful
drought tolerant tomato. Indeterminate, regular leaf plant produces
small to medium (2 1/2 to 3-inch), flat, deeply ruffled, chocolate-brown
to deep-purple fruit. Intensely rich, unique, almost wine-like flavors
with a citrus finish. Crack resistant and stores well."

https://store.tomatofest.com/Purple_Calabash_Tomato_Seeds_p/tf-0405.htm

I found this site about a month ago, so never took any pics of my own tomatoes to post (I will do so this season). The Brandywine Sudduth's pic is from Daves' Garden from which I got the seeds --- and all BW Sudduth saved for the last few years have produced the most delicious tomatoes from the 100+ varieties I've planted in previous years, and about a hundred more others from friends' gardens. This BW Sudduth is the Gold Standard by which I measure all other tomatoes.

Marry Christmas and Happy New Year to All !!!

And I apologize if I did not make it clear that I was not accusing you personally of anything. I kind of assumed everyone would assume like me that you were posting photos from the Internet, not claiming to be representing your own photos.

Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, and a safe and peaceful holiday season to all, and best wishes for a healthy and prosperous New Year!

since their pics are copy righted

Just as a side note, everything original that is published is automatically copyrighted, even on the Internet. People can waive their rights and make something open for free use, but it's always good to assume that everything is copyrighted unless it explicitly says otherwise or gives licensing information.

Nobody's going to come after people posting stuff on a free forum, obviously, but it can contribute to intellectual property "drifting" and being used later by someone else in a way that the author may not appreciate.

I agree that pictures that aren't your own should be sourced... in addition to being good manners, it avoids this kind of confusion. Sorry for my assumptions.

Esterina is noted as having a "tangy kick", and while many may like that, it is not what I am looking for.

Peter: Esterina is noted as having a "tangy kick", and while many may like that, it is not what I am looking for.

I would take that with a grain of salt like everything else. Sungold is noted for exceptional sweetness, but it's not usually considered a "mild" tomato like many sweet tomatoes that lack balancing acid. I'm actually kind of confused by that, because Johnny's is saying it's their replacement for White Cherry, which is always described as being very mild and sweet. Maybe they're just trying to say that it's not a one-dimensional, mild tomato, as the brighter yellow cherries, as opposed to the golden or orange ones, are noted for being on the blander side. Not to mention that the usual caveats like personal sensory differences, growing conditions, etc. always apply.

Territorial says: Esterina floored us in our trials with its uniquely rich, full, and robust flavor evocative of sweet molasses

Fedco: Though the flavor may never displace Sun Gold, Pink Princess or Sweet Treats from my top five, it rates a solid good: a clean juicy sweetness that may bring you back for more. For a true yellow (golden or orange ones not allowed), that’s no small compliment!

High Mowing: A star in our trials with addictive sweetness and good disease resistance. An excellent organic alternative to Sungold, with sweeter flavor, excellent crack resistance and brighter yellow color.

Obviously, personal judgment and personal taste and individual results for location and conditions applies to seed companies, too.

Regardless, pls. let us know how Yellow Mini does and how it compares to Sungold. If I do end up growing Esterina, I'll report on it.

Thanks for all the info, I will consider it. I have always found Sungold to be unpredictable taste wise, something else I do not like about it. Some are very tart, and some are exceptionally smooth and sweet. It mostly depends on precisely how ripe they are, which can be hard to tell outside in the sun without a very careful eye. They seem to turn orange before being fully ripe.

But I am willing to take a chance with the cherry variety too. We don't eat a lot of them. Since there is little info on Yellow Mini, maybe it would be nice to trial.

I bought a pint of Esterina at the farmers market last August. It was very sweet and tasty too. I liked it better than Sun Gold.

sey

I grew Esterina, Yellow Mini, Sun Gold and Sun Sugar in that sequence in this year's planting. Although I ate many of each I just can't say that Esterina stood out as an exceptional cherry. I've grown the others for 5 or more years and although I'm fond of Yellow Mini it is for reasons other than taste alone. SunGold and Sun Sugar are not distinguishable other than degree of cracking IMO. But if you've grown either one and you don't like the flavor I'm not sure what you would like.

I will only comment on picture of Purple Calabash to say that I never have seen such a great displayed picture for any tomato, but I found it to one of the most disgusting tomatoes I ever grew. You need a shear to harvest because the core will usually rip out of the tomato if you try to pull it from the stem. And the flavor is so piney that it reminds me of chewing on pine needles. This one is what I would call a spitter.

Barrie, I have grown Sun Gold. I liked the taste fine. What I did not like was cracking so easily. Also a lot of the fruits were very tiny. Despite that I might grow SG this coming season. Or might replace it with Jaune Flammee'.

Sey

Totally agree about the splitting since I'm a market grower but you need to be careful with splitting trait. Sun Sugar is better at the trait but still splits to a degree. Another Orange cherry, Toronjina, has much less splitti,g but flavor is poor. It's so off-flavor that I stopped growing Toronjina even though I have over 400 seeds remaining from an order.

Cherry size is a trait I've brough up on this forum (market grower section) as recently as 2 months ago. In good faith I can't sell Fourth of July, Matina or Stupice as cherry tomatoes. The same goes for labeling Juliet, Blush or the artisan Tiger series as grape tomatoes when they really belong in the saladette category. While there are good flavored cherry tomatoes that are too small, SunGold isn't one of them. Any producing fruits under 20g are tiny. AAS winner Jasper is a good example. I still grow Jasper for plant sales because many people are just crazy over it but it takes twice as long to pick a gallon of them as a 26-28g cherry, so I stopped growing them as a crop.

I prefer Black Krim to Cherokee Purple because BK is a little more productive for me with a little less cracking. I only grow one cherry a year and have been alternating Sungold and Super Sweet 100. This year will be SS 100 I think.

The only new to me type I plan to trial this year is Orange Jazz. The only catalog I've seen it in so far this year is Totally Tomatoes. There is a long post on Tomatoville about it that was started by the breeder a couple years ago.

This is the description from Totally Tomatoes:

Outstanding flavor with just a hint of fresh peach sweetness. Unique, orange beefsteak-type, 10 to 16 ounce, fruits are brushed with yellow stripes. Vigorous vines produce heavily. An excellent choice for roadside stand and specialty markets. Indeterminate.

Has anyone tried Orange Jazz?

There is a thread on Orange Jazz at tomatoville, where the breeder Fred Hempel is a member and asks for feedback (EDIT: there's a lot of other stuff in that thread about Artisan deals, etc. It's a long thread. I would read it backwards from the end for the most discussion of results.)

Seed is also available from his website, Artisan seeds. His packets are more expensive than the standard, but shipping is free and you get a lot more seeds. So if the only seed you're buying from Totally Tomatoes is Orange Jazz, it could work out cheaper to get it from artisan. I have ordered from Fred before, and shipping times are very much within norms, even if you only buy one packet.

Oh wow you have peaked my interest with that Orange Jazz... I might go for that instead of one of my picks. Probably Carbon as I am not sure I will like black tomatoes.

Thanks for the info on Artisan seeds gorbelly. I've read most of that thread at Tville and that is what intrigued me to try Orange Jazz. I may go that route and order from Fred.

I gave my Totally Tomatoes catalog to my neighbor to look through to see if anything interested her. I start several tomatoes and peppers for here every year. If she doesn't find anything she wants in TT I will probably order from Artisan. I think TT minimum shipping is only $5 or so and I'm sure I could find a couple more things that I 'need'.

Yeah Peter it looks like a good one...I hope you try it. We can compare notes as we grow it.

Last year we grew 6 kinds of tomatoes (5 from bakers creek). We grew a cherry called Purple Bumblebee which was beautiful and very productive. Those plants kept pumping out fruits and we were very happy with it. We have a lot away and people loved the looks of them. Here are a couple pictures although they were much more striking in person.

Nice tomatoes, I am not looking for that kind of cherry though; my wife won't eat it.

I am now thinking about Kellogg's Breakfast and Brandywine... I can't make up my mind :)

I got this book as a Christmas gift, maybe you should read it, Peter lol

Cool looking book Chris. How many pages is it? I think I have heard of the author somewhere...probably on a gardening website.

Peter - I believe some people were favorably comparing the taste of Kellogg's Breakfast X (KBX) to Orange Jazz on the Tville thread that gorbelly linked. KBX is supposed to be the one of the best orange tomatoes if not THE best.

I have Craig's book as well. He posts on tomatoville, where I am a member. He is, like Carolyn, responsible for introducing many important heirloom varieties into circulation via Seed Savers Exchange. Craig is the person who was given seeds for what he would later name Cherokee Purple and introduced it to the larger public, for example.

It's a well-done book, and while no one tomato book is complete, I like his quick-reference tables for different tomato varieties. Very helpful. The tomato photos are nice--not too "airbrushed". They look like photos of the more attractive examples of what would come out of a real home garden.

LoneJack--it's about 250 pages.

It's about 200 pages, if you don't include the list of 250 tomatoes that he recommends at the end, and the appendix. Has a lot of info about heirloom varieties and some hybrids. Talks about seed-saving and creating your own breed. I also saw something about dehybridization, specifically speaking about Sun Gold. He saved seeds from the Sun Gold and tried to see about getting something comparable to it, but got all crazy variations, as expected. Good example of why seed-saving from hybrids is a crapshoot at best.

Edit: What gorbelly said lol

I take it back, don't read this book...you'll want to grow 100 different varieties of tomatoes!!

This guy grows an incredible amount of tomatoes in 1 flat. He takes a 50-cell flat and sows an average of like 30 seeds in each cell. 1500 seedlings in 1 flat! Then he teases them apart and transplants them into 3 or 4" containers.

Which tomatoes did you decide on Chris?

I made my final decisions:

- Kellogg's Breakfast - 2 plants

- Brandywine (Johnny's Sudduth strain) - 2 plants

- Golden Rave (Sauce tomato) - 6 plants

- Yellow Mini (Cherry/salad tomato) - 1 plant

That's all I am growing... that's plenty! IDK, maybe I will try to shoehorn in a Jet Star. Not growing Carbon as I have 2 heirloom types and I don't think I will like the black tomato flavor.

Chris: I take it back, don't read this book...you'll want to grow 100 different varieties of tomatoes!!

Too true! Just a tip--I believe Victory Seeds has seeds for all of his favorite varieties.

Wow, Peter, doing a lot of tomato plants this year!

I haven't come to a conclusion on all the varieties I will grow yet, especially since I started to read this book.

As of now my options, from the seeds I have, are:

Cherokee Purple

Black Krim

Brandywine

Indigo Cherry Drops

Sun Gold

Red Zebra

Pink Berkeley Tie Dye

Genuwine

German Pink

Roma

San Marzano

Celebrity

Toronjina

Pink Bumblebee

Sunrise Bumblebee

Pink Boar

This book is not making my life easier haha.

Gorbelly, thanks for the info!! I didn't know that. I see he lists quite a few seed companies as recommended sources.

I never though I would hear that 11 plants is a lot on the Gardenweb Tomato Forum ;)

I grew like 5 last year, and was disappointed I didn't preserve any tomatoes. It is one of the few things very much worth preserving, for sauce. We have some old canned tomato sauce from 2015 but it is slightly burnt and I don't want to eat it. :/

IDK if I need 4 heirloom tomato plants, but I will give away whatever I don't eat.

My final (plus my neighbor's I give plants to share):

1. Momotaro Hybrid
1. Think Pink Hybrid
1. Rowdy Red OP
1. Bolseno hybrid
3. Margo Hybrid dwarf
1. Green Berkeley Tie-Dye OP
1. Bella Rosa Det. Hybrid
1. Camaro hybrid Det.
1. Ananas Noire
1. Brandy Boy Hybrid
1. Pruden's Purple

1. Aunt Ginny's Purple
6. Brandywine Sudduth --- The Best!
1. Chapman Beefsteak

1. Rose heirloom
   1. Limmony heirloom
   1. Arkansas Traveler
   1. Lucky Cross
   3. Orange Pixie hybrid dwarf
   1. Lime Green Salad dwarf OP
   1. Pride of Flanders OP

1. Jaune Flamme
1. Red Rose
1. Neves Azorean Red

1. Purple Calabash

1. Royal Hillbilly
1. Ball's Beefsteak hybrid
1. Bulgarian #7 OP

We'll see which will survive when the thrips come charging down, and Leaf Spot starts killing the leaves!

Will report on disease resistance, productivity and taste.

Happy New 2017 Year to All !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Haha a lot for you, Peter!

I grew about the same amount as you this year(can only say that for 1 more day). I'm way too big of a tomato lover to only have 5 plants, 2 of which were paste varieties. Time to raise the tomato stakes! :-)

I have pretty limited space, so I scratch my itch with more compact plants I can grow in containers.

In-ground, I'll be growing

Earl of Edgecombe
Anna Russian
Pantano
Green Giant
a couple cherry types -- I can't seem to finalize the varieties yet.

In containers, I'll be growing Apricot Dream F1, Maglia Rosa, and probably repeat Dwarf Mr. Snow. I may squeeze Lucinda somewhere, as I got some seed free with an order. I also always do a couple of micro-dwarfs. I have seeds for Hahm's Gelbe Topftomate, Yellow Canary, Red Robin, and Lime Green Salad, which is not really micro but not as large as the rugose-leaved dwarfs like NBD and the Dwarf Project releases.

Can't say I have grown -- or even heard of -- any of those gorbelly. :)

Chris where did you get all those tomato seeds you aren't sure if you are going to grow? Tomato starting is still a good ways away.... don't get an itchy finger! April 1st isn't even too late! After you made your selections you'll want to cut yourself off from this forum to avoid temptation ;)

Peter, I've gotten them from various sites. High Mowing Seeds, Johnny's, Territorial Seeds, Baker Creek and now I've added Tomato Growers to that group.

Ordered these varieties from Tomato Growers last night:

Jaune Flamme

KBX

Nepal

Polish

Black Cherry

Lillian's Yellow

Blush

Sweet Million

and that's it!! No more! haha

I'm keeping myself occupied by growing greens and basil indoors :-) After starting tomatoes 7 or 8 weeks before frost late year, I learned that I really only need 5. My seedlings got waaay too big last year before planting time.

If you get bored, you can start some artichokes or c. chinense peppers mid February, or any kind of allium in January.

I broke the bank just buying what I am actually going to grow, myself. :)

What better to break the bank for?? I don't even want to know how much I've spent this year. It's crazy. Luckily I was gifted the expensive garden tool I really wanted. Ever hear of a broadfork?

Peter, artichokes need to be started already? I read in one of Eliot Coleman's books about tricking them into vernalization to set flower. I actually have Green Globe seeds.

Wow I can't say I have ever seen a broadfork. That's pretty cool.

Artichokes need to be vernalized, yes. First of all don't waste your time growing Green Globe -- it needs an extremely long vernalization period and almost definitely won't produce/flower the first year, and won't survive our winters. Imperial Star and a few others (I am trying Colorado Star this year which is new, also Opera,) only need about 2 weeks of vernalization. If they don't get it in the spring, they will get it in the fall. The foliage is actually very frost hardy and will last into late fall, though the buds will get damaged they taste great. An alternative method to vernalize which I did last year was to put them in the refrigerator for 2 weeks before transplanting. I start my seeds mid-February and put them out around the first frost.

That's awesome! Yeah I read that growing it as an annual is the best idea in our area. Did you get a decent harvest?

I am a fan of stuffed artichokes, but I have no idea where I would be able to put the plants :-/

Peter, since you grow directly in-ground, the broadfork would be a great tool for you. Rather expensive, but the Meadow Creature I got has a lifetime warranty and is apparently built extremely well.

I would love one but just don't have the cash right now... they are extremely expensive.

The great thing about growing artichokes is that they are rarely damaged by animals. I plant them outside my fenced garden. But, the annuals do not produce very well, and they are mainly something to grow just for fun and the sake of growing them. You can expect maybe 2 large 'chokes per plant, and some extra tiny ones. I am going to grow some this year to plant in the flower beds, they make beautiful flowers too.

Oh wow, they do have beautiful flowers. I'm going to see about making more growing space in the yard. Maybe I will do artichokes.

Thanks for the tips!

The Wild Boar Farms offerings are very colorful and interesting. Last year we grew Lucid Gem, PBTD, and Porkchop which are larger tomatoes. We also grew Cosmic Eclipse and Dark Galaxy which are globes. In 2017 we'll be growing others. GGWT is also a very interesting and great tasting tomato that we grew last year. I agree that the entire Artisan line is very interesting and tasty as well. For odd shapes check out J&L Gardens. Lee has some fine and interesting offerings on his site.

Shell

I was pointing a friend to this thread and then noticed that 14_tomatoes has replaced the photo of Purple Calabash with a more true-to-life photo. So to anyone who finds this post later, disregard my comments about the photo being digitally altered.

Hey Peter as another fellow NY'r, if your tempted I picked up a few of the 2017 Brad Gate releases and am only growing 1 of them this year. I am more than willing to share if you want to try some out and you don't need much seed. They are all striped except for "of course" the only one I am growing from his tomatoes this year, the white Cherry, Napa Chardonnay. LMK.

Not an open invite as I only have so much seed***except if your Gorbelly and have extra seed of the red pear. That is a sexy tomato, my local Wegmans before I stopped buying fresh tomatoes from a store would get some heirlooms that looked like that pear, beautiful and great for sauce. Sometimes I just buy tomato seed for the shape or name.

I like bi color and dark orange tomatoes. I will be growing HILLBILLY, OLD GERMAN and KELLOGS BREAKFAST among other.

I am also growing INDIGO ROSE and a grape shape . Here is a picture.

I grow it not so much for production or good tasting but for its WOW effect. The taste is ok too, a bit on the tangy side. I got the seeds from Trader Joe's heirloom cherry pack. I call it "Tiger Grape". Just for myself. The color is like Bumblebee but the shape is different.

I will allso gro "Purple Bumblebee" and "Green Copia".

This is green Copia

this is a cut view

Sey

Didn't read all of this thread but if you're looking for meaty with great taste and sauce making consider Wessel's Purple Pride. Baker Creek doesn't have it but I could mail you some seeds.

Cindy