Software
Houzz Logo Print
raymondranch

would you plant roughleaf dogwood?

9 years ago

Hello! Zone 5b/NE Has anyone had personal experience with roughleaf dogwood? It was recommended to me to plant 3 of them at the crest of the hill on our acreage in an open area that receives alot of sun and wind. It will be very visible as you come up our drive. It needs to be tough, but I also want it to look good!

Comments (20)

  • 9 years ago

    Correct botanical name, please.

  • 9 years ago

    Cornus drummondii. It is native in many counties in Nebraska. No personal experience with this particular shrubby dogwood, but I have grown other native shrubby and small tree dogwoods in sun and some wind, though my windy river valley probably doesn't compare to the plains!

    "I also want it to look good!" Your site sounds like a stressful place for many plants with slope, sun, and wind. I guess whether you think it will look good depends on the overall setting, your goals, and what the soil is like. Roughleaf dogwood has flowers, but while nice, they aren't stunning and tend to last a fairly short amount of time, the leaves get some fall color, it tolerates drought once settled, the berries attract birds but because of that don't last long, it suckers and so will get wider over the years. Will you be able to water it on a regular basis for the first year, slowly but deeply? Virtually all plants need this to get established in challenging conditions. If there is a particularly dry year will you be willing and able to water? That may make a difference to how good it looks. Is there somewhere you can go look at it to judge for yourself how you feel about the plant such as a state park? Are there other gardeners or nature centers/botanical gardens in your area who can share experience growing this plant to help you judge things like its disease resistance and tolerance of the combination of wind and sun in your setting?

    It is a plant that has few postings here on GW, either under its common name or the scientific name, and I think that's because it's not a plant that stands out particularly.

  • 9 years ago

    Thanks for your response. I tried looking for it at a few nurseries in the fall and couldn't find it, but I could go to some arboretums close by that are pretty good at labeling their plantings. There is nothing like seeing it in person for sure! It was recommended to me because of it's ability to withstand my conditions and I am willing and able to water. I am hesitating because I think I won't love it. Would any other shrubs with a similar size come to mind? My goal is to add interest and some wind protection to an open area that lies east of our home.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Deciduous kinds absorb and break up gusts rather than merely deflecting them as dense evergreen hedging often does.

    Paul Cappiello & Don Shadow call C. asperifolia Rough-leaf Dogwood in their 2005 Timber Press book Dogwoods, say on page 59 C. asperifolia var. drummondii is

    a definite up-and-comer in the plant world

    and

    could be quite useful as a small street tree

    plus

    Bill Hendricks of Klyn [Wholesale Only] Nursery, Perry, Ohio, has been growing a form with creamy yellow flowers and fruit

    that

    makes an outstanding little tree

    which appears to have been named 'Lemon Drops' (scroll down, click on View Details under CORNUS drummondii 'Lemon Drops'):

    http://www.klynnurseries.com/page/2/?post_type=product&product_cat&s=cornus

    raymondranch thanked Embothrium
  • 9 years ago

    I've seen Lemon Drops first hand, and it does have clean foliage and an attractive fruit display. Certainly a tough/hardy plant, but not highly ornamental except during the fall season. Still a good candidate if you're looking for a low maintenance shrub that will tolerate difficult (dry, exposed) conditions.

    Another tough/hardy large shrub that you may want to consider: Prairie Classic Viburnum - http://www.classicviburnums.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/plants.plantDetail/plant_id/7237/index.htm

    raymondranch thanked arbordave (SE MI)
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes: it being a Swida botanically, along with C. alba etc. it is never of course going to be as showy as a Benthamidia such as C. florida or C. kousa.

    raymondranch thanked Embothrium
  • 9 years ago

    Here are photos (creduted to Klyn Nurseries) of Cornus drummondii 'Lemon Drops' from a wholesale nursery in my neck of the woods. Unfortunately, there aren't any fall color photos.

    raymondranch thanked NHBabs z4b-5a NH
  • 9 years ago

    I wish I could plant the florida or the kousa here but don't think they would make it. The viburnum is nice! Here are some pics. The plan is to plant the area along the inside curve. The dug up spot is where we removed a cement pad that the previous owner had for his dog kennel. Anything that helps hide the utilities and a buffer from the elements would have to be an improvement don't you think?


  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That site among open fields is going to throw everything your climate has at the planting. Definitely you will want to use only the most exposure tolerant kinds (such as Black Hills Spruce probably is an example of). Otherwise you are going to see dying back, maybe even complete failures.

    I've been reading a book published in 1993 by the local bulb grower's association about bulb (primarily Iris, Narcissus and Tulip) production in my State. Most of the area used is USDA 8 - yet over the years (from 1892 on) there have been repeated periodic significant losses to cold - of bulbs! One year one grower who didn't lose most of a crop - unlike pretty much everyone else in the area - skated by because his field was on a more sheltered site.

    raymondranch thanked Embothrium
  • 9 years ago

    Yes I think you are right Embothrium! Perhaps the dogwood is a smart choice. I found some more info about cornus drummondi online but can't find where there might be a list of the different varieties within that species? I think I would prefer the look of prairie fire viburnum but could would it not be as hardy? Thank you for sharing your knowledge, it is much appreciated! Happy New Year!

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'd look for information about the ecology of these plants in order to try and assess their suitability for your conditions. Dogwoods in general I think of as woodland plants although this particular one is a Swida - along with the red-twig dogwoods. Also of course if you see indications that they are being produced commercially on similarly unprotected sites in your same region that could provide assurance.

    raymondranch thanked Embothrium
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Prairie Classic Viburnum was selected in NE and would be fully hardy at your location. A Nebraska Statewide Arboretum release.

    raymondranch thanked arbordave (SE MI)
  • 9 years ago

    I really do like that viburnum. Thank you for the picture! I will be checking that one out. Something about it appeals to me more than the dogwood. Thanks!

  • 9 years ago

    you said it was recommended ... then you say you cant find it ... then you show a drawing ...


    did you do the drawing??? .. or a professional ..


    just because a plant is recommended ... or exists ... does not necessarily mean it is widely available in the trade ... or locally ...


    which then means.. you have to move to mail order ... which then usually forces you into smaller plants ... which on one have are easier to deal with ... plant.. care for ... all with less stress .... [unless you are working on a no holds barred budget]


    but then you are battling the need for instant gratification.. and wanting the utilities to disappear.. last year ..


    ken


    ps: whats the little green explosion in the second pic .. lol ... a yucca with a perfect shadow??? .. and.. is there a power line coming into the pole???



  • 9 years ago

    Well Ken, here are some answers to your questions. I had no idea I was being so unclear. 1. The dogwoods were recommended by a local tree nursery who specialize in natives. 2. I was looking for someone with personal experience growing the plant to hear what they thought about it. I also looked at some at other local nurseries to see what it looked like in person before I ordered it from the "native nursery." None of them had it. 3. The drawing was done by the "native" nursery. I love some of their ideas but not all. 4. I have no problem starting with smaller plants or trees. I prefer them, even though I am not twenty any more and know I don't have forever to see things mature. 5. Not working with a no holds barred budget. I wish I was! 5. I would love the utilities to disappear, last year. 6. There is a buried power line that comes into the pole. I had the utilities marked so I know exactly where it is. 7. That is a yucca. Planted by previous owner. I am starting to appreciate it. It grows well in the soil here and, well, it is green.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It wouldn't hurt to plant more of those, out in the tip, where shorter plants are called for (unlike what was done in the plan it looks best to place plants according to mature height in relation to bed width. In other words the shortest plants in the narrowest parts and the tallest in the widest. Also I wouldn't have planted rows of plants in a curving, informally shaped bed, having an outline which calls for planting in drifts instead. If you had all the plants called for in the plan standing there waiting to be placed and installed, and I had been engaged to arrange them I would advocate organizing them as I have described here.).

  • 9 years ago

    Embothrium, If I understand you correctly, you think I should have planted more up the middle than on the outline of this area? And in a drift, not a line. I probably would have planted about three trees then? This spot has been difficult for me to figure out which is why I had the nursery designer draw up a design. I planted the black hills spruce and the red oaks this last fall. I have been unsure about the dogwoods because I think they are kind of ugly. Would you say that a larger shrub form like the dogwood or a viburnum would be better placed closer to the lightpole with shorter plants out to the edge then? I am very interested in learning what makes up good design. I have many more areas to plant!

  • 9 years ago

    Anything I've read about this plant suggests that it's a plant for shade/part shade.

    raymondranch thanked rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Raymond, in reality, there are lots of shrub species that would grow there. Even something like common lilac-you can't kill these things-will provide screening and wind abatement with their tightly-massed stems. Just one idea. Viburnums? Surely there's one from this huge tribe that could be a part of your solution. But even this is but the tip of the iceberg. Are there not nurseries you can visit or even look at on-line offerings suitable for your area? Shrubs are easy, tough, reliable, and everywhere. Not saying don't go with that dogwood-it could work-but don't restrict yourself to just one or two genera.

    raymondranch thanked wisconsitom