I looked endlessly and still look for that awesome online plan, that will meet our needs, furthermore DH and family and friends felt it would be way too expensive to work with an architect. But, despite my efforts, I could not find anything that met our needs. They all hav split bedrooms, or huge MBedrm or dark kitchen great rooms which are too small. They all look the same.

We are just in process of talking to architects and this is a scary proposition too, cause we need to make sure they clearly know what we want in our home and be able to design it according to these needs or wants.

We searched for years and found a plan that was almost perfect for us. But, we still had an architect modify it to met some of our specific needs. We worked with an architect that was recommended by the builder we had chose to build our house. It took about three meetings between us, the builder and the architect to get the plan that we eventually built. We are very happy with the finished results!

It is not possible because an online plan will never take into consideration your local and site conditions. It's like shopping online for a coat when you won't know the weather or the sex of the wearer...

I agree it is virtually impossible to find the right house for a given family unless they are willing to accept someone else's dream and most people who take the trouble to build a house have much greater expectations.

My experience in this kind of search is limited to what I see here on the forum and when my BIL & SIL spent a year searching the internet with no success so they finally told me what they had been doing and asked me to design a house for them (at a greatly reduced rate). I discussed their needs for many hours and spent a week designing a house. When I sent it to them their response was "let's build it."

Of course, there was a lot more to be done but if you know someone well, the design process can be compressed but I don't recommend it. The builder still uses the house in full page magazine ads with no mention of the architect.

I would like to add that a house design should be a process that starts with the site and the climate and carefully considers the owners' needs, tastes and budget. It should be a collaborative process of discovery on the part of all involved. Finding a house design online and trying to adapt it is the reverse of that process with no collaboration or discovery. With due respect to engineers, this is one of the predictable differences between engineering and architecture.

When I get stuck on a design I find it helpful to remember Robert Rauschenberg's idea that a painting is a collaboration of materials. I guess it helps to take me out of the equation and see how things seem to want to work together.

Well I myself looked for over a year and found a lot of plans that hmmm if only this was over here or not so big or not so small or didn't have a formal dining room or had a flex space or..... they all had pieces and parts that we did and did not like. We ended up gathering our wishes from all that 'research' and brought that to a designer. I would say a designer or architect can help to see in 3-D more than just purchasing a plan can. But I am most definitely challenged in that way.

Now simply because I enjoy it I STILL look at plans and like to follow others posted here and from the architects that also participate. I love the dialogue and thought processes that make each and everyone unique.

A creative and responsive custom home design is much more than a "floor plan". What kind of more? 1) It's a site-specific design which tailors the house to the land--terrain conditions, solar conditions, views, access, privacy, zoning and architectural review requirements. 2) It's an exterior architectural character which is authentic, well proportioned and organized, with massing and details appropriate for the type of house; 3) It's an interior concept with spatial variety and natural light which supports and encourages the family's specific life style.

Can you find all of this from a plan factory in your lifetime? Nope.

Glad you asked! :-)

Yesterday when there were multiple articles on the internet about George and Barbara Bush's 72nd wedding anniversary, I happened to stumble on an article from a back issue of Architectural Digest. It was about George and Laura Bush's house built on their ranch in Crawford TX. It's a lovely piece of property and a gorgeous house, but what struck me was the comments about their architect and what he did for them. <http://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/laura-and-george-w-bush-prairie-chapel-ranch-texas-article>; For them, it was all about the site of the house and how it dealt with weather/ light etc - exactly what Virgil is talking about above. I think their architect achieved exactly what they wanted and it fits the site perfectly.

Now, if we're talking about a house being built in an old corn field that is flat as a pancake and has not a tree or blade of grass on it, nor a view of any kind, that is different and perhaps an architect might not be as essential. But it WILL still make a difference unless one just wants a house like all the rest in the neighborhood.

It is not possible. My DH is an engineer too and we searched for quite a while and finally gave up and went custom.

We're doing something unique (two family custom higher end duplex) and there is no way that a plan factory is going to have anything remotely close. I loved working with the architect and believe we came up with a design that is perfect for our lot, region, lifestyle and needs. It's even designed that with a few <100,000 in modifications (finished walkout basements adding two more bedrooms per side. closing up doors between side of the duplex, and converting to two townhouses, it will have great resale). As it is the appraiser said resale as is will be approximately equal to cost to build, but the neighborhood is experiencing a big increase in value and we got the lot at about 60% of current vales (and 33% of 2008 list prices) and the additional cost of the modifications will be much less than the increase in value. The architect included plans for the basement and we've stubbed in the plumbing for 4 more baths, two on each side. The downturn worked in our favor especially since in the 2.5 years between the lot purchase and the sale of our old house prices rebounded nicely and we were in the sweet spot.

This question comes up at least once a week or more on these forums -- it is time well spent to search and read through some of those threads (better than spending time searching for a plan). If you work with an architect, you do not need to come with plans in order for them to get started (they know how to get started, its their profession). Virgil is right.

Unless you live in a very unregulated and un-permitted area, whatever you find online will need to be adjusted a) anything you want to tweak or change; b) set up for your site -- the slope, locations, the street, utilities, septic, etc. crawlspace, full basement, whatever; c) adjusted for local codes (from basic electrical, plumbing, to wind shear, etc.) ....all those things need to be customized from the online (and it costs money). Sometimes your builder can do that. An architect is trained to consider all of those things, PLUS how you like to live, the spaces that will make you really happy to sit in with a cup of coffee; from little stuff like switches where you expect them, there's just so many things to love about a well-designed and considered house.

Reading through the threads -- anyone posting with "what do you think of this plan I found online" -- it will have tons of comments (mostly for improvements) -- there are hardly ever any stock plans that get "great!" feedback.

You're going to pay a lot of money for someone to build the house (hopefully to your liking) -- why wouldn't you pay a professional to design something that truly suits you? I wish there was a good analogy. You may bring a photo to your hairdresser, but you don't want that exact cut done regardless of your hair type, face shape, etc. -- you want it customized for you. Unlike hair, obviously a house won't grow back; that's called remodeling and its expensive.

Buildling a house is exciting, stressful and hopefully super rewarding in the end. Good luck!!

I was able to find a really nice plan on line from a home designer. My builder and I were able to make some changes to it without any great trouble. So, can it be done? The answer is yes.

There are two recent threads on this forum that put things into perspective for me. There was a lot of great advice and I suggest you review them before you get too far into the process.
Architect versus online plan, what's the secret?

And, here is a way to put your desires in a format that an architect will understand. It put a stop to my plan hunting. Now I know what I want and how to communicate it.

Beginning Bubble Diagram

You will be better educated and a better consumer by reading these threads. Best of luck.

Enginerds are genetically unsuited to building a home. They think they know all there is to know about something that is a lot more art than science, and then they think they know all about the science too. And they're never happy with the details that anyone either discusses or creates. Engineers should tell their spouse 3 things that they want that are non negotiable, and then let the spouse deal with the rest of the entire transaction by hiring a Pro.

And yeah, I have 73 years of personal experience dealing with them. One irascible worse know it all than me shares the other half of the king sized bed and is on my last nerve tonight. They are also the biggest whiny know it all babies in the world when they are sick.

We looked for years for a suitable plan. At best, we were able to get general ideas, but ultimately designed the house ourselves. We have a view in the back, so waterfront plans came the closest to what we ended up with. We have a unique property, unique (some might say odd) tastes, and we wanted a small, energy efficient house that would 'live large'.

In addition to our unique tastes, things like really well laid-out kitchens are rare in stock plans. Even good architects can have trouble with kitchen lay-out. Spend a while over on the Kitchens forum to see what I mean. We have several kitchen details that I've never seen in a stock plan.

Kitchens are easy to design; its the relationships with other living spaces that is difficult to do well. I start with the kitchen in order to avoid the demands of other spaces making a mess of it which I find to be common and something even a good kitchen designer can't fix. My goals are: a window, two counters that meet in a corner, no full sinks or ranges in an island that has seating, no seats that can be viewed directly from behind from seating in a living or dining room, and no beer signs.

I fear most people have never met a "good architect". I suspect that's because its difficult to make a living designing houses that cost under a million and good design talent is so well compensated by large architectural firms that charge large fees and rarely design houses.

Here's one that got posted 9 hours ago. Maybe it's like that commercial where the guy is trying to do neurosurgery and someone says, "wow are you a doctor?!" And he replies, no but I slept at a motel 8 last night (or something like that). Everyone has experience in living in cookie cutter, mass produced designs, and if that suits, take even more savings from building custom and just purchase an existing house. Or put the extra money into a better location, But if you buy land and build a custom house, why spend that much money (for what someone on this other thread) refers to as "a McDonald 's house? http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/4373897/struggling-with-house-plan-changes?n=14

That kitchen is a perfect example of one that was designed to fit in a preconceived scheme and is therefore large, dark and inefficient to use. A kitchen designer can only do so much without redesigning the house.

This dilemma is often the result of more than one ground floor bedroom and a narrow lot. The traditional solution has been to put some bedrooms upstairs or buy a wider lot but there are apparently parts of the country where bedrooms are usually on the ground floor and narrow lots are offered by developers.

I keep hearing a strange concern of the young that they be able to age in place. I understand the advantage of living on one floor later in life but to get to be that old it helps a great deal to climb stairs many times a day.

I've designed many houses but the only ones that were one story were the ones to which I was asked to add a second story.

Interesting point about stairs, JDS. My mother lived in an old house where the rise of the stairs was greater than the run! She navigated those stairs several times a day, including carrying a laundry basket into her mid 80's. Once she broke her hip (NOT on the stairs), she had to move to a handicapped-friendly place. I feel the same way about a house plan that is a 'disaster' because groceries have to be carried too far from the garage. I spend a few minutes a week schlepping groceries; hours enjoying the layout of our house that wouldn't have worked with the garage adjacent to the kitchen.

All excellent point JDS. Especially about climbing stairs. I don't know when that became such a hardship for younger folks. I'm actually glad that my studio will be on the second floor. First I'll have better light and two, it means I'll be up and down stairs multiple times a day. However, since we're headed into our tarnished golden years, we are putting in an elevator as a just in case (although I personally hate small elevators. LOL.)

If designing for older folks such as myself, I do see the rationale to having a first floor bedroom.

My goals are: a window, two counters that meet in a corner, no full sinks or ranges in an island that has seating,

Funny I wrestled with that but decided it was more important to have prep space on the perimeter than in the island. I know I would never use the island to prep if I had reversed my prep sink and my cleanup sink, because I do not want to be carrying foodstuff back and forth across the aisle. (Somehow I always manage to drop pieces on the floor.)

I also worry as I age that it might become more difficult. Yes it doesn't seem like a big deal, but I watched my mother struggle to carry things once she needed a walker and had problems with her Parkinson's. Hopefully I'll be more like my aunt on my Dad's side. She was mobile, had every brain cell she was born with and walked everywhere in NYC. Her last year of life she needed a walker. She was 95 when she died. But since we can't know ahead of time, I'm doing all I can to remain healthy but building with "just in case" in mind.

So my perimeter has the fridge, then a prep sink on one wall and on the other wall of the L has my cooktop and oven. My cleanup sink, D/W and drawers for silverware and everyday dishes is in the island. Makes it easy for cleanup too since the dishes from the dining area just have to be pushed across the island.

no seats that can be viewed directly from behind from seating in a living or dining room, and no beer signs.

I'm not following what you mean here.

We have a well laid out home with a first floor master, garage near the kitchen, 2 bedrooms and 2 full baths upstairs, open plan etc. HOWEVER - we're building a ranch. We had some designs that included an elevator, etc - as it was easier to manage costs by building up instead of out. One level building is inherently more expensive.

We're building on one level for several reason - some are "aging in place" - but it has more to do with full utilization of the spaces (we tried using the upstairs for some office work for a while and DH felt too disconnected from the rest of the house / me / the animals. Additionally, we've had blind dogs for over 15 years and asking them to do too many stairs isn't cool, and I am not a fan of blocking off the stairs in order for them to be safe. I suspect I'll have a blind dog all the time (becoming a rescue speciality) so one level made sense for us.

And yes - we could have loaded them in an elevator to move the blind dogs around (and we did in a beach rental) but we knew ourselves well enough that the upstairs would simply be too isolated having to get the animals up and down that it would go as unused as our upstairs does today.

Our pool / hobbies / acreage will provide us ample exercise opportunities without trying to navigate stairs.

Funny, We are more concerned about dealing with aging dogs than ourselves. We'll figure out how to adapt and accommodate. Our dogs, not so much.

If you are really thinking of your needs from every angle (your lot, orientation, if you have a view, what else is common in the neighborhood, etc) I think you can find a spec plan that's pretty close. Most people aren't purists (like most of the traffic on this board is) so I think you could certainly find something to make you happy. However, I also think that given the opportunity, 99% of people will find some changes they want to implement on any plan.

Different people have different wants/needs though. Family room in front or back of house, location of master... kitchen size... You could come here with the perfect house for your family, but this board will still rip it apart and say it's trash lol

Out with the old and bring in new ideas and concepts. A lot of old timers here dwell in the past, all the experience is worthless if they can't relate to current needs, life styles, location and culture, personalities and above all budgets; not saying that it is good but it is radically different. I'd love to see layout and designs of homes of the biggest critics on this board.

People still eat, sleep, poop, and want to spend time both alone and with their families. Anyone who thinks that has changed spends too much time with their nose in a phone. The psychology of shelter is the same it always has been. Humans are hardwired that way because of evolutionary biology. Technology is a blip on the pimple on the butt of human experience. The caveman is still within. And he still wants a cave and a campfire.

I can't believe I missed Sophie's post about engineers.... I loved it and sympathize! (That is all)

Yes...engineers...they're valuable...but have a tendancy to overrate themselves...unlike architects...LOL!

It's been said that God must be an engineer because when He designed our bodies, who the hell else would run a sewer right though the middle of a recreational area!

The amount of engineering that went into designing the human body is nothing short of mindblowing. In fact a single human cell structure and it's functionality is mind blowing. If it were not for engineers, this conversation would not be possible; I can say that, being one of the few people on arpnet long before the www existed.

Oh geez! What did I say in the 2016 quotes thread about taking oneself too seriously?

LOL

Certainly glad to see that no one here is opinionated and fixed in their opinions...! :-)

An "ideal" plan depends a lot on what one's individual education, priorities, lifestyle and budget may be. For example, Palladio fills the bill for many people...

I am an engineer as well. Knowing the layout we were after, my wife and I looked through hundreds of house plans and found many that we liked. I ended up taking the closest fitting one and modifying it on paper. I played around with the design for over a year before we took the plans to a draftsmen. I went this route because we had a close representation of how we wanted the house to look and it was much cheaper than an architect. After a handful of revisions, we finalized the plans are have started construction.

Over a year of your time has zero value? Many people struggle with the DIY fallacy that it is too costly to pay a Pro to do an expert job quickly.

Time has a value. Not always monetary. But, monetary as well. You can't get that year back. It's not like a year spend together as a family building a pool in the back yard. What is the cost of your attention and focus being on something that limited your focus on your job and family? What is the cost to your spouse to pick up the slack?

How do you quantify that impact? If it saved you 10K, but cost you in another way, was that tradeoff the one you imagined it to be when you are 70 and can see the years running out fast? Which would you rather have? 10K? Or more time spent with your kids when they were young?

Its the same trap as "I MUST have the big house with everyone getting their own bathroom and 5 places to eat,'' No, you don't need that. You need that time you spend working overtime to save for that giant house to be spent watching your kids recital. And make them share a smaller space.

I can't find a plan even close to what I want online because I HATE great rooms and I'm not a fan of interior kitchens. Finding a plan without those two elements is near impossible.

But as someone else said, that doesn't stop me from looking at plans online just for fun.

I have always enjoyed looking at house plans, ever since my parents built a house in 1977. Heck, when I was in high school, I used to build elaborate houses with Lego bricks.

I've looked at plans specifically for my Mom's Minnesota lake lot - narrow level lot, south side of the lake, lots of trees. I have dug through stock plans, and I have started from scratch. We are in no position to build any time soon - may not ever build there - but it's fun to think about. But much of the planning has to do with identifying our needs there.

If I ever was going to build a house on the lake lot, I'd go to an architect - not just because of all I have learned here. I am a firm believer in using the right tool for the job - and that means hiring experts to get things done right the first time.

I am also an engineer.