I'm starting to look more at ground temps rather than LFD. I'm thinking that I need to get ground temps to at least 50 degrees before plant out. That will be determined by winter/spring temps so I'm not entirely sure when I should start seeds. I will probably try to plant out the 3rd or 4th week of May, so seed starting will be around the first of April. I will probably do some early for containers and maybe raised beds.

Right, Hoosier. , LFD is just one indicator. It gives you an idea as how the early spring will come. I have planted out few times even days s before the LFD.

Yeah, soil temperature is just as important, You can do few things to bring it up soil temperatures faster : (1) Cover with a low mini hoop with clear plastic on. (2) Cover with black plastic a mont or two before plant out.

The beds were covered w/ plastic 2 months before. I check the soil temperture just before planting. It was like 54F at a depth of 8" or so. And this. I used it mostly at nights and on cold days while hardening off. It was a portable mini hoop.

Sey

OK: When are you germinating ?

Sey, you plan to germinate up to nine weeks before LFD? I can grow two crops ready for plant out in that time! My LFD is usually the first week of April. I will pot up no sooner than five weeks prior to that. Any sooner, and the plants get too leggy. Plus, we had a very late freeze last Spring that had me scrambling around making freeze protection for 55 plants. I will not do that again. Remember, that your house will be warmer and sunnier when germinating than when you were in the Pacific NW.

Why start nine weeks out?

I agree with ncrealestateguy. 5-6 weeks from seeding to transplant is plenty of time for tomatoes. I will be starting mine on March 20 and transplant sometime around May 1 here in the KC area. I start in 606 cell packs and then pot up to 4" pots at about 3 weeks, start to harden off at about 30 days. The plants are usually about 6" when I start to harden off and around 8" at transplant.

sey … start peppers mid jan and tomatoes late feb early march … it's different east of the pac_nw ...

Sey, I am in zone 7a (Tulsa area), and I like to get my plants in the ground ASAP because our temps get so high so fast, that we need them in the ground before the heat gets too high to set fruit. Last year, I started my tomato plants on Feb. 8th, and they were too big for my taste by the time I got them in the ground the first week of April. They were so big that I had to put them outside and bring them into the garage at night (for two weeks!). They were about 15" tall and setting blossoms by the first of April. They were nice plants, don't get me wrong, but I like to plant mine deep and that's a lot to bury for me. I am going to do a few of them early this year, maybe to put in some containers that I can slide into the garage on cold nights, but the bulk of them I am starting six weeks out this time. If I get my plants in the ground the first week of April, I am picking tomatoes the first week of June. For whatever reason, I have certain mid-season varieties that are always early producers for me.

Sey - I think your plan to plant half early and half 2 weeks later is a good one. Maybe also plant most of your later maturing varieties early and a few of early varieties as well so you can get some early harvest.

It's been my experience that even if the weather allows one to get a jump start on getting plants in the ground, even by two weeks, that the advantage of getting them in early is negated by the cold ground temps.

I'd be interested to hear your experience if you do manage to get a first batch in the ground signifigantly earlier than the rest of them... my guess is that they will fruit at the same time.

@ Barugu ... yeah, will germinate my pepper around mid January. They are mostly slow growing than tomatoes.

@ Turbo Cat ... yes, short spring and high temps/humidity July / August are the reasons for planting out early so by the time high heat arrives the plants will have enough fruits on them at various stages. I am not rushing and pushing the season to get a bite on a fresh mater few weeks early.

@ NC ... Yeah ground temperature is important. Anything under 50F not good. I prefer 55F+. But from what I have heard sandy soil down here heats up pretty quickly. I have stick thermometer and measure soil temperatures before planting. But I will do some staggering and won't put all my eggs in one basket. hehe

OK. You all have good points and every climate is different. I am following the advice of the fellow gardeners down here in deep south in FL, TX , GA , SC ... , cause I have no experience in this climate. I have gardened in north GA ( North Atlanta, zone 7b) but it was not that hot over there as I recall. Even there I used to push the season just to get early harvest. I was a novice back then.

Sey

This past year, I had to replace some of my plants with much younger seedlings that only had one or two sets of true leaves. The size difference was comical when they went into the ground, but it quickly disappeared, and there was surprisingly almost no difference in when they bore ripe fruit. The difference was a matter of days, not weeks. I grow 2 plants of each variety, so I was able to note the side-by-side difference. I noticed that, once the temps got nice and warm, any lagging plants caught up quickly.

I agree that the main reason to plant out early is to get more time to set fruit before the heat sets in and shuts down new fruit set. Last year we abruptly went from nice 70-80 degree weather in late May and the first week of June to upper 90s starting on June 8. My plants (other than the cherries) did not set a single fruit for the next 3+ weeks until we had a cool spell around July 4th.

It has also been my experience that the fruit that is set during cold temps get a lot of severe catfacing. After years of pushing the LFD timing, I now realize that, for me, it pays off for me to wait a week or two. I would rather chance not having an early heat wave that stops pollination than knowing that I will have two weeks worth of catfaced tomatoes.

Over here in Dubai we wait for the weather to cool down so we have tour start seeds when temps are over 100F and the humidity is high. That means they need to be kept in air-conditioned rooms. A good time to get them in their final pots or in the ground is early November.

I don't really base my plant-out date on soil temperatures since I grow in containers. The soil is usually much warmer than in-ground during the day and then cools off at night. I typically use LFD as a general guideline. Anytime between the third and fourth week of May seems to always be a good time regardless of season. We very rarely get threats of frost past mid-May. Even if the threat exists, I have frost protection and hail protection (much more likely and necessary) for just that purpose. My experience has been that, even when I plant into cool soil or in cool weather, I never have issues with plants establishing - they may just take a little longer to get fired up. I find that my transplants actually struggle more if I plant in warm to hot weather than in cool, probably because we have cool nights anyway and the seedlings have been hardened off in cool night temperatures and are accustomed.

2017 will only be my third season of starting my own seedlings, but I have found over the past two seasons that I started my tomato seeds WAY too early. In 2015 I started them in mid-March. I had planned to transplant in mid-May, so I took a week off of work to harden them off and then we had unusual cold and snow following that, so they had to sit in the garage for another week. It was almost 10 weeks from the time I started my seeds to the time I planted and the seedlings were enormous. It was a real PITA.

Last season, I thought I'd be smarter by starting them on March 30, more than two weeks later than 2015, with the idea they'd be transplanted around the same time - mid-May. I actually was able to plant out exactly when I wanted to (May 21), but even in those 7 weeks, the seedlings were far too tall. Moving multiple trays of 12-18" seedlings around during the hardening off process sucks.

THIS season I am not starting my tomato seeds until sometime during the second week in April. I took a ton of notes on how the seedlings performed last season and found that trying to time it out about 5 weeks is just about right. The seedlings at that stage are short, stocky and not quite at the point where they begin competing for the light and become leggy. Much past that stage and they really grow quickly and can be difficult to manage.

With that said, I do start my pepper seeds in January. First, they grow for several months indoors with no issues whatsoever. Second, I like to have some lead time in the event I have failures and need to start over. Some pepper seeds can take 2-3 weeks to germinate if they even germinate at all - I've heard of super-hots taking longer than a month. I usually see germination within a few days with sweet peppers and within a week or 10 days with most others.

ticodxb,

That is the opposite problem that most in the US and Canada have! You ought to be getting close to having some tomatoes if you don't already.

Unlike up north the ground here hardly freezes during two months before plant out. Here is our Feb and Mar. averages"

February 58
°,34
°

March 60
° 40
°

So the ground will be warm enough by late March. and average around the 24 hour temps will be also moderate. (Take it 50F. ) Tomato plant can stand that fine. That is what I am shooting for. Come early April, the temps will be higher by about 6 degrees ( 56F average ) or daytime high close to 65F.Now I am talking about Southeast NC. I bet up around Charlotte NC it will cooler.

But at any rate this will be an experiment for me. I will do some staggering to find out the difference in results

sey

i bet you may see more catfacing than any other significant difference between the two crops. Don't get me wrong, I have a hard time holding off for those two or so weeks where I could probably risk putting them out. Heck, last year's really late freeze got me. I had to cover my entire garden with plastic and ran propane heaters and flood lights for two nights. I'm not doing that mess again. Anyhow, it sure is fun messing with the timing of Mother Nature.