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patwoody11

Kitchen Remodel

9 years ago

I'm looking to save money on a kitchen remodel. I have attached a few sketches without dimensions, but I think it will be sufficient for my questions.There are a couple of areas that I would like opinions about. I have read through many articles that I have bookmarked through the years, and I realize that I can save money on glaze. I am staining cherry cabinets (not painting) so that might be one savings. I am also looking to change my appliances. They were all high end Sub Zero/Wolf and coming in around ~$30K. I am trying to decide which are really worth it. Are there good under cabinet wine fridges? Do I need a warming drawer? Etc. But my design question actually has to do with cabinet end panels. This is a traditional home and kitchen, and the end panels are also a bit expensive. Are they needed and are they needed everywhere? If I keep my current dishwasher which is a Bosch, it will not have a cabinet panel over it. Is that a big deal? I don't think so. I actually did not want cabinet panels on the refrigerator as I wanted to break up the monotony of a lot of wood. Also, I'm debating the size of the island. Currently I have an 8' X 30" island. I definitely think I can go to 36" but I am going to have a template made to decide. I am just not sure that 9' is needed. One last thing, while this is a traditional home in a traditional neighborhood, we are empty nesters. However we have a very large extended family. So several times a year, a warming drawer is nice to have, but they are very expensive, at least the Wolf is. We are planning to stay here for the foreseeable future, and are designing the kitchen for both ourselves and future resale. Any thoughts on the need for end panels would be appreciated and any other comments. The overall kitchen size is 24' long X 16' wide with an additional 4' wide in the kitchen table area that is not shown (like a bump out) adjacent to the long length of wall cabinets (where you see the wine fridge below). Thank you so much!




Comments (12)

  • 9 years ago

    I'd get end panels for the cabinets. No panels over appliances. Appliances break and have to be replaced, and then you have to get custom panels yet again.

    When you entertain large groups, you found already that you do use the warming drawer. A new one would get used, too.

    Patricia Woody thanked apple_pie_order
  • 9 years ago

    End panels for the cabinets. It makes a huge difference. I just finished designing a fairly expensive kitchen ;although it's a small galley: think NYC coop). I deliberated on fridges. I ultimately went with Subzero, which I resisted. It really is the best refrigerator, even without the prestige of the brand. Don't skimp on that. The most attractive under counter wine fridges are also Subzero but if you are using cabinet panels it probably won't make much if a difference. If you are not using cabinet panels consider the differences in stainlesssteel colors. All brands are different. Also, there really is barely any savings whether or not you go with cabinet panels or stainless steel. If you buy panel-ready, the cost of the appliance is less than if it's a finished, stainless-clad piece. In fact Subzeros only come panel-ready and if you want their stainless doors you have to buy them anyway. Based upon your excellent drawings, I'd probably go with a stainless fridge especially if you go with a high end brand because you have a lot of full depth cabinets (which I love). I have a Bosch dishwasher which isn't nearly as nice as the comparably priced Miele. I'd definitely do panels for the dishwasher. Dishwashers are just not attractive and since it's under-counter it really chops up the look. You have the stainless range (or ceramic color if you're going for an Italian range) which is a focal point. The fridge works in stainless because it's at the end on a fantastic wall of cabinets. I think it would look just nice with matching panels but you are restricted since the refrigerator door configurations probably won't match with the symmetry of all the cabinets to its right. I see the microwave is under counter in the island which is another reason the dishwasher should match the cabinetry. I think your island is big enough, for sure. As far as resale, like you I will be living in my place for the foreseeable future and I'm thinking resale value. Subzero and Wolf, etc always add to resale. Appliances are super expensive and they almost never go in and out of style. I'm sticking with white cabinets but there are so many gorgeous colors nowadays to choose from...but there you will have to decide if a particular color will "time-stamp" your kitchen and whether or not that bothers you. You have a gorgeous kitchen!

    Patricia Woody thanked Laura Fredricks
  • 9 years ago

    Last thing: warming drawer is great and you will miss it if you are used to it. Unlike some other posts, appliances rarely break to the point of needing replacement. You are talking about appliances that are either at the much lower price points or after 15-20 years. My mom had her Subzero for 20 years and after she passed away it was still almost new. Are you using inset doors or full overlay? Can't tell if it's flat doors which are inset or paneled full overlay doors. Also, it appears the drawers are flat panel? Looks nice.

    Patricia Woody thanked Laura Fredricks
  • 9 years ago

    All, thank you for the very thoughtful comments. First Alexandra, the cabinets are full overlay drawers. Though I haven't actually made my final door selection. I need to confirm this configuration within a week and make that selection. I do use the warming drawer and even though it's only 3-5 times/year, with large family gatherings of ~30, it is something that I originally wanted. My current GE Cafe range has one and I use it a lot.

    It is difficult to decide whether saving $10K is worth it when you're spending this much. Except it does put me just over by that amount of what I had budgeted, so it's a tough call. There does seem to be a unanimous opinion on end panels, for the perimeter cabinets, so I think I will keep them (~$3450). Thank you. The island was of course completely paneled and costed separately. I'm going to have to think real hard about the dishwasher because if I change it and add the panel it's ~$1800. The Wolf warming drawer is also very pricey at over ~$2300 as well as the Subzero wine fridge ~$3100. I think I will stick with the Wolf range and the Subzero refrigerator (I hadn't really thought much about eliminating them as I was trying to eliminate $10K and found it in the above items.)

    I appreciate the comments from everyone. I will send photos (before and after) when the kitchen is completed, in late May or early June. The house was built in 1994 and the kitchen is that vintage other than granite counters, backsplash and change of island (all about 10 years ago) and upgraded appliances (all about 5 years ago). But it's definitely in need of an upgrade. We either do it now and enjoy it or we'll end up doing it to eventually sell the house in 10 or so years, so I would like to enjoy it.

  • 9 years ago

    Do consult with several local real estate agents as to what buyers are looking for in your area. Make sure they are well versed in homes at your price point. It never hurts to ask.

    Patricia Woody thanked chiflipper
  • 9 years ago

    Good point on the real estate. I have a lot of neighbors who have redone their kitchens in the last year and comparable prices, etc. And we do plan to stay here for at least 10 years possibly more. Thanks.

  • 9 years ago

    A couple of things. do you really so much cabinetry??I hope the floor to ceiling cabinetry next to the fridge. have pull out shelves and I would panned the fridge depending on the sub O some have the coolant on the top and some on the bottom which ever you decide make the paneling so you can not tell where the Fridge is. (very European) I would put the paneling on the side on that wall.

    And for the working L Please do not put in a angled cabinet on the corner. and for the upper cabinetry. If it is just the 2 of you how much storage do you need. It look like a cabinet company is trying to sell you more than you need. I would not put uppers on the right the window and on the other wall. I would only put uppers on either end with glass doors and the stove with a down draft so now hood. If you find you need more storage you can always add more uppers.

    The Island/. The microwave I hope will be a slide out one they are a little expensive around one thousand. and I would have 2. 3'wide draws the top one 5', the middle 10" and the bottom 15" and that is where I would store my dishes, flatware and glasses. I would not put paneling on the island especially under the bar for there will be stools there and you won't see it. If it works into the budget it would be beautiful to have the sides and top in marble. If not you do not need paneling on the island the renderings look very busy.

    Make sure you have a minimum of 40" between the sink and the island 4' would be better so when the dishwasher is open you can walk through and at least 4' between stove and island the size of the island should be no bigger than 8' long and minimum 3' wide

    Patricia Woody thanked Interior Analysis by Allan Skriloff
  • 9 years ago

    Thank you for your thoughtful comments. The cabinets next to the fridge have pull-outs up to a certain height and then fixed shelving above. I am using one of those as a food pantry and one for appliances as I don't like appliances on the counter, and other large kitchen cookware, like slow cooker, etc. The fridge has the coolant on the top.

    The microwave is a pull out in the island. I don't think I can afford marble on the sides and top of the island, but I will consider eliminating some panels.

    We do have 40" between the sink and the island and 48" at the end close to the range.

    And I do not want that angled corner cabinet and noticed that the kitchen designer put that in. What do you suggest for those upper and lower corners? I just haven't been able to come up with anything without having dead space in the cabinets which seems undesirable.

    I am still finalizing the design so I will consider the island changes as well. I know the sketch looks busy but I don't think the cabinets will be that busy once I finalize it.

    I am debating the island size. I just got a cardboard template today. The width is fine for the room, and I am also thinking 9' is about a foot too long. Currently my island is 8' long but only 30 inches wide and it's definitely too narrow.

    Thank you.



  • 9 years ago

    They do make for the dead corner a cabinet that slides out so you can use the the red space and there is where I had put Cuisenarts etc. with a plug in the cabinet so you just lift it up and put it on the counter. I do not know the size of the room 3" is normal 2' cabinetry and a food overhang for bar if you have room it cam be wider With the coolant on the top change the proportions of the cabinetry. put across the top the same cabinet that is above the fridge. and then a solid panel where the coolant is and then solid lift up doors the same size as the coolant panel with a touch spring opener no handel and then make the paneling on the cabinetry match the fridge. As i said i would not do all the uppers most of the space in them are not functional and as I said if you feel you do need mor storage you can always add them

    Patricia Woody thanked Interior Analysis by Allan Skriloff
  • PRO
    9 years ago

    You can definitely save a lot of money on appliances by not going with Sub-Zero/Wolf. I would recommend checking out both Dacor and Bosch for appliances which are both very good and a lot less expensive. As for wine refrigerators, U-line makes a lot of very good ones and are much less expensive than the Sub-Zero.

    One change to the layout I might suggest: Consider a stacked micro/oven unit to replace one of the large pantries and replace the micro in the island with drawers. Both units together only cost a bit more than the warming drawer alone, and it's great at holiday gatherings when you're cooking for a lot of people. And yes, keep the end panels. It makes the kitchen look more custom and finished.

    Patricia Woody thanked Sabrina Alfin Interiors
  • 9 years ago

    Thank you for your thoughtful comments.

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