Father Jerome, I know that some think that Soncy is the same as Amazone or Alexander Hill Gray, and that Anna Olivier is said to be Etoile de Lyon, but I've not heard that Soncy might be EdL. Are you thoroughly confused now? lol. But to me, they do bear a remarkable resemblance, though I've only grown EdL.

John

Thanks John! I have actually never seen Alexander Hill Gray or Anna Olivier, so I cannot compare. Both Soncy and Etoile de Lyon are outstanding roses here. Really love them.

OH, Father Jerome, I just lied (inadvertantly, I promise....ummmm). I also have an Anna Olivier that I'd forgotten about. But she's new, and I've only had a very few blooms from her last year, and she hasn't begun the first flush yet for this year. That doesn't help your curiosity re: S vs EdL, but I wanted to clear the air, lol.

I need to get Soncy and AHG so I can compare all of them.

My plants will never look as good as yours in this cold winter climate, but sometimes just individual blooms make it worth the effort.

I have both and they don't seem alike to me.

Jerome, is it possible that you have the same of either and not the two different roses ?

According to my 1996 Antique Rose Emporium catalog, ARE thought Soncy similar to Perle des Jardins. From page 10: "Soncy is a found rose that greatly reminds us of our tea rose Perle des Jardins. It has the same nice tea fragrance, size, and flowers of pure yellow to ivory. It differs in that it rarely produces thorns on its stems; most of its prickles are under the leaves and are of little concern. The flowers rarely ball in our humidity, unlike Perle des Jardins, and make a nice display throughout the growing season. 5 to 6 feet. Z7/R/Fr/yb" ARE was also selling Etoile de Lyon in the same catalog on page 36: "A sweet rose of soft golden yellow with good fragrance. 'Etoile de Lyon' carries its full blooms in a nodding fashion. The best display is in spring, when the flowers look like yellow apples on a full, leafy bush. 3 to 5 feet. Z7/R/Fr/my"

The two roses (if I remember correctly) are from two different sources. Got Etoile from Vintage (requiescat in pace) and Soncy from Pat Henry of RU in South Carolina. I've never seen Perle des Jardins, and if I recall the whole Anna Olivier question is very confusing to me. Isn't it that different roses have different names in the US and Australia? Yikes! Really confusing to me. I'll try to take closeups of both bushes after Easter. Next few days are crazybusy.

There's 'Anna Olivier' and there's "Bermuda's Anna Olivier". The latter was once thought to be the former, but later it was found not to be true, and instead, "Bermuda's Anna Olivier" is 'Etoile de Lyon'. The rose called "Soncy" in Bermuda is either 'Alexander Hill Gray' or 'Amazone', depending on whom you ask.

I have AHG and EdL, though both are young and potted. For me, besides knowing them by plant shape, there's a little flaw had by EdL but not AHG -- the outer petals on EdL typically brown a bit as the bloom opens. If I intend to add EdL to a vase, I just tear off those outer petals.

As to differences with Australia, the one I remember concerns their "Fake Perle", which was once thought to be 'Perle des Jardins' until the real thing was found again. Australia's "Fake Perle" is the same rose which is sold here in the US as 'Alliance Franco-Russe'. I have both of these, again as pot-pets, and their blooms are similar. But I find their foliage to be noticeably different. And, at least so far, AFR is stouter and more upright, while PdJ is lower and spreading.

All of my plants mentioned above came from Rose Petals Nursery.

:-)

~Christopher

I think the Tea ladies say their "Souvenir d un Ami" is "General Tartas" here in the States.

I bought a Soncy after I saw it last year at ARE in Texas. I think it's going to be a good rose for me and I'm happy to hear its doing well at St. Michael's too.

Kittymoonbeam: next time you're up at the abbey, lasso me down and I'll show you ours.

Sherry, I almost teared up when I saw your name; it's been so long since you posted here. I hope so much that you'll continue to do so as much as you're able to. I hope your dear husband is doing well.

Your AHG is SO gorgeous! I had one in the past and loved it until it began to mildew and then never stopped. It's such an elegant rose and I'm glad yours is looking wonderful.

So wonderful to see your comment, Ingrid. I hope to be posting more. I was afraid there would be a mess with forgotten passwords, etc but none was required. Thanks for your concern for Tom. Sadly, I must tell you he passed away on November 29th. Even though his last hospitalization was lengthy, the end was quick, and for that I'm grateful.

Gosh...I am so sorry for your loss. Will definitely keep you and the repose of Tom's soul in my prayers at Mass tomorrow. Your AHG is lovely!

So sorry, Sherry. He sounded like a wonderful husband. So glad you have your roses and memories.

I wish you would come back, Sherry! We miss you.