Oh, that is horrific!! What does the general contractor have to say about this?

Exactly!

The issue is with the tile guys - I have had zero problems with the contractor himself or with any of the other subs, including the one who installed the waterproofing (this has been a fairly big project including an addition). The contractor assures me he will re-do everything, these are not his regular tile guys and he obviously didn't vet these guys enough. My dad is also a general contractor, he lives in another state but while visiting a couple weeks ago he saw everything before the tiling started, and he assures me the waterproofing was done properly. So at least that's a positive!

My main concern is whether there is any merit to the claim that the tile is bowed/warped enough to be considered defective, or if this is just a terrible installation that if done properly would not have been problematic. Or all of the above. Also - can the walls be redone without also ripping out the floor, or will that compromise the waterproofing? Also can someone confirm if the spacers are inappropriate for this application? Thanks!

From your description, I'd say those are floor tile spacers, and thus inappropriate. As for the bowed/warped tiles, it could be that at least some of what you're experiencing is a phenomenon called "lippage," a normal phenomenon in tile laying, but magnified by a thousand when large format tile is involved. It could also be an adherance issue, but It's hard to say, especiallly without some wider, well-lit shots.

100% installation issues. All LFT is slightly bowed, it's the nature of all LFT, not a defect, and the skilled tile setters know that. And know how to set it properly. 1/3 offset max. No 50/50 offset. Medium bedding mortar. No thinset.

Looking at the valve cross section exposed, I'd also have fears about the waterproofing. But, because all of that has to be ripped out, and started over completely, you have the chance to be sure that the waterproofing is done correctly the next time.

Here is a pre-tile pic. Please note that the grey cement board was extended all the way to the ceiling on the wall next to the window as well, I just got this photo mid-install.

Im usually the one that says to give the contractor a chance but the problem here is the contractor. This is a gut and hire someone new who knows what they are doing.

Your contractor is lost. Have someone check all those other repairs you think are great. Green board in wet areas, this isn't 1990 and why we had so many issues with those installs.

Sorry but that install will damage the rest of your home.

Backer board isn't waterproof. Somebody doesn't know how to follow the fastener schedule either. And greenboard? Really? You have a big mess on your hands. It for sure needs to be ripped out completely and started over. New pan. Everything.

she said the cement board went all the way up. Although, cement board over green board?? why?

do you know if all the seams were taped and mudded? do you know if Redgard was applied to the cement board?

as for the tile install, what sophie said is correct. on the large format tiles, max offset is 1/3. most of those tiles will have a certain degree of bowing, and that's why you buy more so you can pick the best ones that don't. yes those spacers seem too small for that job. the bottom row should have a ledger board set in place with tiling above, so that it can't slide down. (or they could set the first course on the bottom on one day, and do the rest on the next day)

I don't know what happened w/the mosaics. they didn't bother to straighten them after laying them.

That is so not good. Stop them now and get someone who knows what they are doing. Just had a marble surround added to my bath and the spacers used were like these...

Here is an example of using spacers in your photo. Notice the number vs the ones in your photo and that's with smaller tile.

Here's what my finished surround looks like.

Based on my little project (which I hired professionals to handle) here are some things that I think might cause bowing. The actual wall bowing, the backerboard may not properly be anchored, wrong thickness of backerboard (too thin), or use of the wrong tiling adhesive so the tiles are not adhering properly. A tile professional should be able to help you figure out a way to fix the situation, hopefully short of trashing all materials. If you're in DC Metro, I can give you info on the folks I hired. I bought most of my own materials and the labor was quite reasonable.

mk, large format tiles are often bowed. doesn't have anything to do w/the wall in this case.

Hmm. Ok. The ones on my surround were just 12x12. Is it just marble over a certain size or any natural stone that has the bowing issue? I'm asking because of another project I was considering using slate. Thanks.

it's normally from man made materials. when they fire the clay, it has a tendency to bow when you get past the 12" mark.

Slate is fine. try and get the gauged tiles.

The grey board, which goes all the way to the ceiling on both shower walls, is Fiberock tile backer board, specifically meant for wet areas behind tile. Each piece actually has "wet area tile cement board" printed on it. Another contractor who I trust and who has a vested interest in my home value (my father) saw the pre-tile wall prep up close and in person and verified that it was prepped and waterproofed correctly. The issue is with the tile installers, who are being replaced bc they are awful. I'm trying to get advice here to educate myself to help ensure that the right steps are taken to make sure this gets done correctly.

Sorry, but Fiberock is not waterproof, and that pan has no waterproofing. The curb isn't waterproofed either. Nor the pony wall. Plenty of old school contractors built things 100% wrong their whole careers. And that is WRONG.

Straight from their website specs for Fiberock:

F. If waterproofing is desired, use USG Durock™ Brand Waterproofing Membrane. See USG Durock™ Brand Waterproofing Membrane submittal (CB595) for product information. Or use USG Durock™ Brand Tile Membrane with USG Durock™ Brand Tile Membrane Adhesive. See USG Durock™ Brand Tile Membrane submittal (CB492) for product information.

There is no proper waterproofing to begin with so this needs to all be ripped out a proper waterproofing system installed and an actual tile setter hired to do the tile work . Who ever did this is no tile setter IMO and your contractor is not good either if this is his idea of waterproofing.

Aside from the horrible tile install, If they just tiled over the fibrerock board as shown in your picture (continued to the ceiling -not shown) it is NOT waterproofed properly...at all !
The green board behind the fiberboard is absurd, and just another problem for the future. The good news is that all of it needs to be ripped out to the studs, and you will have the opportunity to do it right the next time.

So plastic barrier behind the aquatough board does not make for adequate waterproofing? I read the install specs as well and they mention additional waterproofing in the context of horizontal surfaces, not as mandatory for walls. I am asking because I genuinely want to know. We are back to square one, starting over from scratch. There is some kind of waterproof membrane on the shower floor and pony wall, don't know brand or make because it's currently coming out with the tile as we gut the enclosure. It looks dark grey or black. Is there a specific recommendation for a different shower pan waterproofing material that I should have them use?

Mfg's of cement board do not specify a waterproofing membrane is mandatory. A plastic sheet behind the board if properly redirected into the pan is considered waterproofed. Is it the minimum? Yes, but it also has been done that way for many years without issue. The problem comes from installers using green board which isn't waterproof and crumbles when wet.

There are two ways of looking at waterproofing. One is to stop any water from reaching the substrate and that is a roll on membrane or one set in thinset. The other is to use a cement board which itself is waterproof but does not stop water from penetrating through to the studs behind. A sheet of plastic is then used to redirect any moisture back into the pan. Membranes have become very popular due to the internet spreading the word. Problem is when installers use both methods or start mixing and matching products.

I know not what everyone wants to hear but either way if done properly is effective. Roll on membranes to me just make a cleaner installation and for the $125 for Laticrete Hydroban is the way to go.

Everybody is blaming the tile but I would like to see a straightedge across a spare tile before I say it is. With LFT installers like using larger trowels or even spot them to level them out from tile to tile. Larger tiles are not as forgiving and harder to level. I doubt very much it is the walls but again it would have to be checked.

I would also question the depth of that shower valve besides the obvious issues around it.

Good luck.

I ,love the schluter Kerdi system for water proofing maybe watch a tutorial for your own info.

We re-did our shower ourselves and used the schulter system. It's a pink waterproof membrane that goes over the cement/backer board and then you tile over that. My brother just had his bath remodeled by professionals and they used a red coating that looks like it was painted on, not sure of the name, but it's my impression that's how waterproofing is done now.

It's RedGard. about 50 bucks for a tub at HD. It's one of a few options that can be used.

I would call plastic behind cement board an outdated, as well as a poor way to deal with a water issue. I call it an issue because water should never be passing through the cement board layer in the first place. If the cement board is getting wet, it is the first step in the backerboard slowly getting saturated with water from each shower...and not being able to dry properly is going to lead to an ugly mess of mold in the future.
Waterproof membranes like Hydroban, Redguard etc, or products like the Schluter membranes are all waterproofing layers directly under the tile. This layer stops any water from ever reaching the underlying cement board. Like any other product...they need to be installed properly.

I too have had problems with this particular tile and have since pulled the wall tile from my showroom, mainly because it did not match well with its 'coordinating' floor tile. This particular tile is a white bodied ceramic, not porcelain and I would not recommend it for use in a shower. That being noted, a white bodied ceramic that is rated for only wall use and that size has a greater tendency to bow when the tile is cooling during the manufacturing stages. Does this happen often? Not really, but it happens.
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I read every tile post on this site and that is seriously the worst thing I've seen yet.

After following Houzz for the past few years, I honestly don't think I would ever install a tile shower in my own home... so many disaster stories!

mramsey, there are plenty of very qualified tile contractors out there. We hate seeing these failures as it is bad for the whole industry. But remember, the vast majority of tile installations are successful and beautiful. But then, you do have to pay for an actual pro.

Dragonfly, I would never dream of undertaking something like this with anyone who wasn't a seasoned pro...after all the Houzz sad stories, I would be checking their past work and qualifications out like a sleuth! It's actually great to see the examples & hear stories of poor workmanship as it balances out the baloney on TV renovation shows that so many think are the real deal.. As a pro in another field, I know how exasperating it can be to deal with Google experts who really don't have a clue!

Good for you mramsey! Vet your pros. And my comment wasn't meant to suggest you didn't get it. It's just sad that homeowners experience these failures. But it isn't the norm. And oh, so true about the google experts. Honestly, the majority of these situations posted here require an onsite evaluation by a real pro. Way too many assumptions/opinions/conclusions that should not be made without site inspection.

The sad part is that this was done by a "pro" who was actually suggested to the GC by another subcontractor when his regular tile guy was tied up and unavailable. We all learned our lesson - wait for the guy you know is good. By the time the shower demo got under way and the waterproofing re-done on the first of the two showers, the regular tilesetter has become available and is re-doing the tile. Looks great so far.

Excellent. Sometimes it pays to wait :) Happy you are moving in the right direction.

Fire them...do not pay them...construction co owner for 37 years...they are not professionals...you get what you pay for...wow...i feel so bad for you always you should ask to see any previous work before hiring them. We are building our own personal home currently and have real brick and limestone on exterior we actually looked at masons work on $500,000 homes with crooked brick and stick on stone that a 3rd grader could have done a better job. Unfortunately the true artisans in the construction trade are a dying breed. My father was a builder as well. Put there payment in escrow at your local court. Over the last 6 months...we have viewed 30 new homes in the $300,000 - $500,000 and the builders often use cheap labor cheap materials often ....custom built homes are truly not what they used to be...very dissapointing. Let me know how it turned out as i am getting ready to purchase the same product.

I love when everyone goes on and on about this waterproofing just because they see it being pushed all over the internet. The who issue came about because green board was being used in shower wet areas. MFG'S were selling it as approved for wet areas not specifying that did not mean in a shower and every contractor just slapped it on the walls as it was a easy install.

The difference between cement based board and sheetrock is water does NOTHING to cement board and that is why you can address the waterproofing in front or behind of the board. As per the mfg's depending on your areas codes a simple plastic sheet is considered waterproofed. Is a roll on better? Of course it is but that depends on how it is installed. Installing a plastic sheet is a lot easy then installing a Schluter Kerdi which requires a lot of properly matched products to install. To add to it theses mfg's do not sell the related thinset to install and it creates issues. Your better off with something your contractor is familiar with then a complex Kerdi set up in a standard shower.

The one thing that is never addressed is ok now we trapped this moisture in how do we get it out? Old plastic pans used to have drains built in that allowed the water a way out. Yes it will eventually dry if cement based grout is used. Epoxy grout and waterproofed pans have mold issues as when the water in the thinset has nowhere to go. Did you ever use a ledger board on a tub install and after you pull your ledger you see the roll on waterproofing is sopping wet from the moisture rolling down the wall from the thinset install. Ever wonder why your wall to pan caulk keeps failing?

In a standard shower I agree a roll on is the way to go but a plastic sheet is fine and the makers of the boards state this on their site. The tile instal world has to understand it is 2017 and use more up to date products not install the same way it has for the last couple hundred years.

Actually has more to do with making smart hiring decisions and not trying to find a way around professional grade tile prices. Has a lot to do with HOUZZ where everyday we hear My CONTRACTOR screwed up when it really isnt a contractor but a cheap deal they found shopping around god knows where.

This OP had a " supposed" GC trying to use a cheaper sub and he screwed up. The OP just didnt see it for what it was and just on time the better tiler all the sudden is available again Ms. Jones.

Please make sure you post a review for your tile guys so future clients know NOT to hire them. I'd complain to the BBB as well. They sound phony as heck!

Am I incorrect in thinking that the floor tile goes UNDER the wall tile so that the water does not seep into the grout joint around the shower edges, but instead rolls into the shower and into the drain? We are getting ready to do a total shower gut because we have had failure of the grout in the floor, specifically where the tiles were not tilted toward the shower drain properly and held water in the corners and edges. We want to make sure that we more carefully watch the installation this time and also know what to ask as we define the work and pick the materials and installer.