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allcylinders

First Garden Plan - would love feedback!

9 years ago

I'm brand new to gardening and going to give the square foot method a try. I have a 5x10 community garden plot. It's not a perfect rectangle so I'm planning for the sides to be a little wonky in terms of spacing. Any advice on my plan?

Should I grow the cukes and squash in cages or will that shade the okra too much? Will the okra be difficult too harvest based on its current placement? I feel like I have too many tall plants! I'm in Atlanta, zone 8.

Many, many thanks!

Comments (18)

  • 9 years ago

    I think your plan looks pretty good. You will definitely have to put your squash on a trellis or it will over grown everything around it. The cucumber as well. For the tomatoes, are you putting one tomato plant in 4 squares? What kind of tomatoes are these? Determinate or indeterminate?

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey! Welcome to square foot gardening! It is a lot of fun and a lot of trial and error. With that being said, I may have some suggestions. I think you may have some issues with spacing and layout. I don't want to say this can't be done but here are my possible issues. I am also in Atlanta so I am familiar with the specifics. I am just below I-20 in Grant Park.

    1.) the sun comes up in the east and sets to the west and runs a line along the southern hemisphere for us here in Atlanta. This means your tallest plants need to be on the Northern side of the plot or they will shade all of the other plants south of them. In Atlanta, the majority of our most intense/hottest sun is when the sun is the western part of the sky. The sun hits it's meridian around 1:30pm (high noon) right now meaning that from 1:30-sundown which is around 8:30sh the sun will be positioned to the west of your box. This will cast a shadow from from the SW to the NW during the strongest sun part of the day. This means your tomatoes may be casting a big shadow over the rest of your garden during the most intense part of the day. This could be good if you are growing greens and such behind them, but you seem to have sun/heat loving plants in your design. Your options are to either move all tomatoes on the north side and go back to drawing board for the other veggies or choose between morning sun or evening sun for the rest of the garden. Right now you are counting on morning sun, I actually have mine set to get the evening sun because of the layout restrictions I have to deal with in my limited space.

    2.) Okra gets really tall and can shade out a lot of things. They can also spread a bit. Ive done one per square foot, but it can be tight if you plan on having a lot of other plants around them as you do. They may be shaded out a bit. I am sure you can fit some Okra in, I am just not sure if a strip across the middle is the best solution. Again, trial and error though as it may work.

    3.) squash/cucumbers: You must be prepared to manage it. It can grow big fast. I think the kind you listed only requires around 2 feet of spread right? Just be cautious of this, and know that here in Atlanta, we have a mighty big battle against the Squash Vine Borer. I would recommend some sort of a cage or stake used to keep them in their area.

    4.) Tomato question. You need to grow indeterminate up a stake in my opinion. With this you can do one per square foot or leave a square in between each tomato plant (that's what I do). Do not allow any suckers, or in other words keep it to a single vine growing up an 8ft post. My tomatoes get to about 8-10 feet every year as a single vine. We have a long growing season so you can typically harvest until the beginning of November. I grow brandywine and sweet 1000 cherries. Determinate will take up way too much space.

    In Conclusion: I really like your set up, and it may be done. We are lucky in GA with long sunny days, so sometimes shading during the most intense hours is not a bad thing. I personally don't get enough morning sun due to the huge oak trees in Grant Park, so I must set mine to gather the late sun. In a perfect world I would move your tomatoes to the north side (maybe reduce by one plant) or stagger them over two rows, then go with a row or two of Okra (staggered? may still shade the tomatoes too much depending on type), and then squash/cucumber and then peppers/beans/egg plant on the south line. Basically making a tier of sizes starting shortest to the south ramping up to the tallest on the North. This guarantees minimal shade. Where in Atlanta are you located?

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you both so much for you input!

    PlanterJeff, I’m excited to meet another Atlanta gardener. I’m in North Buckhead near Chastain Park so not too far from you. Thanks so much for your detailed response. You’ve given me a ton to think about. A few questions for you, if you don’t mind.

    1. Staking tomatoes – Indeterminate is what I am
      planning to do, but I was going to do cages, hence the 4 squares per
      plant on the original layout. I like the idea of staking them but am intimidated by the heavy pruning they will need. Is it difficult to master or fairly straight
      forward? If I could only have two
      veggies it would be tomatoes and okra so those are my priorities. None of the other gardeners in our community
      garden have had much luck with tomatoes so I am keeping my expectations low and
      am basically viewing this year’s garden as one big experiment! Any tips on growing tomatoes would be
      welcome.
    1. Revised plan – thoughts on the new layout? I will use cages for the cukes and squash to keep them under control.

    Thank you so much for your help – it is very much appreciated by this new gardener!

  • 9 years ago

    May I ask why nobody has had success with tomatoes?

    I'm in Baltimore, MD so my success is different but my tomatoes and peppers grew like weeds! My determinant tomatoes even had a second crop last year! We have so many city rats, squirrels, and crows/pigeons that we MUST net our tomato plants or your tomatoes will be snatched up as soon as they start to turn. The jerks will even eat around green parts! lol

    I'm going to try the Florida Weave for all my peppers and tomatoes this year...but the French system for indeterminate tomatoes looks interesting. I'm not growing enough indeterminate tomatoes to try this method but it may be one you want to look into since you're growing all indeterminate:

    https://www.theartofdoingstuff.com/turns-im-never-really-satisfied-anything-including-tomatoes/

    I've never grown okra so I can't help you there :)


    I am trying melons and watermelons on a trellis this year! first time ever!

  • 9 years ago

    uaskigyrl, that French string system is so interesting and does make for a neat looking garden. I may give that a try after a watch a few more youtube videos on it :).

    I don't know why so many people in my garden have had trouble with tomatoes - they all have just said it in passing so I probably need to do a little more asking around to find out exactly what's the problem. I'm jealous of your success!

    Best of luck with the Florida weave and the melons - you'll have to report back on how they are doing!

  • 9 years ago

    @planterjeff Thanks! That's good to know about tomatoes! Do you pinch back your determinates too?

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks, PlanterJeff! Good to know that staking and pruning to one stem helps with disease. I'll give it a whirl! One more question for you - should I switch the okra and tomatoes or is that a bad idea? I know okra can't get enough heat but sometimes tomatoes can (or at least that's what I've heard). Again, many thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge - I'm super grateful that you are in my zone :)

    Edited: As I thought about this more, the current positioning will give the tomatoes more shade than swapping them with the okra. I need to pay attention to the sun this summer so this is more intuitive!

  • 9 years ago

    uaskigyrl, I would not prune a determinate tomato because you may actually end up losing production because of how they put out their fruit all at once in a determined manor. Each branch is required for fruit production. It works with the indeterminate because they just keep growing and producing all year.

    allcylinders, I think you are good to go. Good luck!

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I also garden in the Atlanta area (southside) and as planterjeff stated, our primary problem with tomatoes is blight. Gets me every year unless I start a spraying program early in the spring. Of course I never do this and always get blight although I do everything that planterjeff recommended above.

    Also, Squash Vine Borers (SVB) will kill my summer squash and zucchini every year unless I cover them with covers (I use tulle).

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yup, I second Yolos. Blight stinks!!! It really is inevitable here. I actually stopped spraying because I know it will hit at some point, I just hope it will wait until late in the season. The svb is something serious! I have all mine under a tulle hoop house as well. I can leave the butternut uncovered though. This weather has been crazy. We may see temps in the 90's this week after a low of the 50's today! Good luck you guys.

  • 9 years ago

    Another pest in my garden every year are pickle worms attacking the cucumber. Bores right into every cucumber starting sometime in July. Planterjeff, do you have pickle worms, and if so, how do you try to control them. This year, in addition to my vinning cucumbers, I am trying some bush cucumbers that I will put under tulle with the summer squash.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, I have issues with cabbage loopers and pickle worms. At least that's what I think they are. I don't grow cucumbers, but the loopers attack my kale and other brassicaea. In fact I have a trap kale patch as a border along my front yard and it is already covered in green worms. I see those little white moths flying around them all day. I spray BT every so often to try to control them. It seems to work, but if I let my guard down, they will decimate my plants. I tried growing cantaloupe one year and something bore directly into the fruits every time no matter if I had sprayed or not. I actually still don't know what it was but I think pickle worms. They moved on to my butternut squash fruits too. So I guess to answer your question, no, I don't have a great solution. BT seems to help though.

  • 9 years ago

    Yikes! Sounds like I need to do some reading on bugs and how to prevent/manage them. I'm not familiar with BT so I'll start by checking that out. I'm sure that as things grow, I'll be back here often with questions on bugs and diseases.

    I haven't put anything in the ground yet - looks like next week the evening temps are going to be in the 50s here. Have you guys planted yet?

    Thank you both so much for your help!

  • 9 years ago

    yeah, I got a jump start when I saw temps warming early on this year. I had most of the garden planted on March 26th. My peas, carrots, lettuce, spinach all went out in February. I already had some spinach bolt, but most is still harvesting right now. I also have tomatoes developing on my cherry plants. I typically get everything out by April 1-15th based on forecast. As long as there is no frost you are good to go. Okra, watermelon and sweet potatoes went out last weekend.

  • 9 years ago

    Yolos, I have a question for you, I was thinking about planting some new lettuce from seed where a few spinach plants had bolted. Do you think I can get by direct seeding this late? If so, Ill just wait and put in some bush beans.

  • 9 years ago

    I am not worth a darn in trying to determine what and when to plant in the spring. I think the lettuce will germinate but will it then bolt??? My spinach and Bok Choy already bolted.

    Just now starting to harvest the Broccoli that was transplanted 3/4.

    Transplanted onions and leeks the first week of Feb.

    Transplanted Artichokes about 4/2.

    Transplanted my first 2 tomatoes in garden on 2/13 and used season extension methods to keep them from freezing. Another 2 tomatoes planted in 2 gallon containers and put in a wagon that was rolled inside the garage when the weather got cold then transplanted them to the garden after it warmed up a little. Most of my tomatoes I planted the last week of March and first week of April.

    Planted potatoes starting 2/24 and covered with a heavy layer of wheat straw.

    Experimenting this year with corn. Seeded inside and planted in the garden just after sprouting. I did a 3 foot x 4 foot plot each week for 6 weeks. First planting was 3/7 and used season extension methods to keep them warm.

    Garlic planted first week in Nov last year.

    Planted Strike Shell Peas 3/11.

    Just started cucumbers and squash and zucchini in pots (waiting for Broccoli to finish before planting the cucubrits in their bed).

    Harvesting Fava Beans now that were planted last Nov.

    Harvesting Carrots now that I planted last fall.

    I still need to plant the okra and cowpeas when some beds free up after harvesting garlic, onions, potatoes, carrots, English peas, fava beans.




  • 9 years ago

    Wow, you have a good system going there. I actually missed my garlic planting time this year:( I didnt get mine in the ground until February. It sprouted and all, so I am curious to see what it produces for me. Last year my spinach bolted on April 1st, but this year it is still going strong. Well, what is left of it is going strong. We have been eating a lot of salad and I want to see how far I can extend this lettuce harvest. I know my spinach will bolt within a week or two. But I have never tried direct seeding lettuce this late. I may just try some starts from lowes, and give them a shot. I'd like to produce through June. Its funny you mention freeing up space. I got to pull my carrots last weekend and plant some squash. I always love that part. A harvest and a new planting.

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