Mine are too new so can't comment on the form but curious if you can remember how the scent started for you. Was your first year scent the same as your older plants or did it evolve?

I have read on here that scent evolves. I have never experienced that. But... I also haven't really grown a lot of own root roses until now so most of my experience is all with grafted roses that are more mature by the time they get into my yard. That could be making the difference.

When I had Double Delight it was grafted and the scent was already evolved by the time I bought it. It was strong and wonderful from the beginning and didn't change in the years that I had it.

I always hear that it evolves too but am finding that if I like or don't like something from the beginning, that doesn't change for my nose as it gets stronger.

Heard great things about DD's fragrance though! A friend who grows it grafted has the same experience as you regarding the plant shape.

I had a DD on Dr. Huey. It was one of my first roses. It declined and I replaced it with one on Multiflora from Palantine. Wow, what a difference. Much thicker and stronger canes and NO SUCKERS. Many more flower producing canes. I'm not sure about own root, but if you can grow on Multiflora, I would recommend it.

Thanks Buford. I think Multiflora works well here. I never really knew too much about particular rootstocks until I found his forum, but now I sure do! I have learned so much here. I have also figured out I have acidic soil .... and I have planted a few roses from palatine that are really thriving! Good advice! Thank you!

Yes, do get it on multiflora, it was a wimp own-root for me. I found out alot of those year modern roses were, after I changed to own-root and didn't realize some roses had to be grafted...Well you live and learn :)

Mine is on Fortuniana rootstock , after a year it has grown about 5 ft tall . it is wonky with the plant more bushy and leaning on one side .Blooms a lot , one of my favorite roses .

Cori-Ann,

I'm beginning to think that almost all roses with a lot of breeding in them do better on an appropriate root stock than on their own roots. The hybrid tea/floribunda types are what I am talking about, and perhaps even just about all other "high performance roses".

I wonder if the current trend towards own root roses is more an easier, quicker to make sales in the rose market ploy by the nurseries. Liners just 5-6_months old are market ready, as opposed to the 2 years needed for grafted field grown roses to be market ready. In addition, the tissue culture propagation of own root roses brings down the cost considerably.

If a rose was developed during the age of grafted roses, which Double Delight was, it was intended to be grow as a scion, not own root, which growing system hardly existed in 1977, when Double Delight was introduced. Don't forget, Double Delight was a first year seedling 10 years earlier, after which time it went through various evaluations until it was selected for commercial introduction, all during the age of grafted roses.

Is it possible that as the own root rose upsurge took hold, Double Delight may have shown to be able to grow equally well or better on its own roots? My judgment says, " no". It was trialed and sold as a grafted rose for many years. I'll bet that today, if trialed in side by side beds, one own root, and the other grafted, five years later, the grafted Double Delight roses would prove to perform better.

Moses

A lovely photo! I found 4 Double Delight (grafted) at Aldi last weekend. I love the fragrance!

Ann,

Spectacular Double Delight, grown to perfection.

Moses

Your Double Delight sure does look fantastic Ann! Maybe getting one local is worth a shot if it could look like that!

Moses I actually like grafted roses better too. I had never even knowingly grown own root... except from my own cuttings... in the past, before I found these forums. I know it's not very popular to say I like grafted better. It seems much more popular to go for own root. I get the reasoning behind it, but grafted roses are just so much more robust and mature.

I can see how if I lived in an area where they froze, it would be smart to do own root... but they don't freeze here.

That being said, I have started experimenting with buying a few own root roses over the past few months. Of course the ones I got from the Sacramento Cemetary seem amazing. The Kordes own root roses seem awesome. And there are quite a few other own root bands from various places that seem like they're going to do great, all based on recommendations from others here.

Even so, I am trying to learn how to bud so I can make my own grafted roses from all the ones I have that are own root (the ones not under patent).

So I kind of agree with you... I tend to like grafted roses better.

And it totally makes sense that Double Delight would do better grafted since that's how it was developed. That's a very smart point.

Thank you Moses and Cori!

Hey, CoriAnn! I had DD own root & it had a lovely shape and rich fragrance from the start. I bought mine from Roses Unlimited. I lost it to Hurricane Matthew, but I hope to have it again.

Big growers tried to move away from grafted roses when they realized that the source of cheap but skilled labor for grafting roses would disappear. You could buy 3 gallon own root plants from the local nursery around 2004.

Really? I don't know about that... but what do I know. I would imagine that since we need grafted fruit trees, grapevines, etc for food/wine production that the skill of grafting will always be around, be taught and be valued.

Then there's the whole new generation of people who are learning grafting for cannabis. Not my thing... but a lot the newer generations are into it since it's becoming legal... and highly lucrative.

I'm just learning how to graft roses this year, so I have absolutely no experience, but I would assume that the basic technique of grafting is similar for roses, trees, other plants, etc.

Do you have any experience with grafted vs non-grafted Double Delight Zack? Seems like I'm leaning toward getting some on Multiflora, but getting them locally and trying out on a typical rootstock (probably Huey) may be worth an experiment if mine can look more like Ann's than the weird, angular bush mine used to look like... but maybe I will just hold off and wait.

I won't grow HTs own root. Most will never achieve a good size or produce enough flowers, and that's why we grow them. I have some Austins and most OGRs own root and they do fine.

I like Multiflora much better than Dr. Huey, but when I buy roses locally, they are on Dr. Huey. I also have some on fortuniana. They seem to get bigger, but the canes aren't as strong and thick as on MF. I am going to try to bud or graft some of my older HTs that are on Dr. Huey on to fortuniana (I have a plant, thanks to a Touch of Class that didn't come back one spring). I wish I had MF plant to also use that.

Cori-Ann,

The Canadian nursery, Pickering Nursery (out of business for a little while now), which so many Americans, especially Northerners, loved, grafted all their roses on multiflora rootstock. Before they closed they started to sell some roses as own root. I miss Pickering Nursery, as so many others do, too.

Pickering was so meticulous about their propagation methods that during grafting season they brought in expert Belgian grafters from Europe to do their grafting.

These Belgian craftsmen made their grafts extremely close to where the roots came out of the rootstock (which is very hard to do...great skill is needed by the grafter to make a successful take so low down on the rootstock).

When such roses were market ready they looked like own root roses. It looked like the basal/bud union area where the canes emerged, had husky anchor roots emerging from it. I marveled at their roses, looking hard to find the rootstock.

With such a short rootstock, about an inch long or less, suckering is reduced. The root zone of the rose upon planting is higher up in the soil, the most aerobic, organically productive soil zone.

I have gotten grafted roses where the graft was six inches up the stalk. Plant such a rose with its bud union 4" below the soil as many folks do here in the North, the rose's feeder roots emerge a foot or more below the soil surface. That's not a very productive place for new roots to grow, even in good soil.

Keep well all you grafted rose devotees, and you own root aficionados, too.

Moses

I only grow own root HTs. My smallest mature rose is at least 4ft tall and the largest well over 7ft if I don't whack it down. All are quite floriferous (with the exception of Sweet Afton, who doesn't like NC summer heat). What I like about own root roses is that if something happens to the top, what grows back is the rose I paid for. Several of my roses were badly damaged by careless workers and a hurricane. Broken to the ground and partially uprooted, 6 out of 7 grew back and are setting bud now.

Own root HTs can grow into big, healthy bloomers. Not all cultivars do well own root, but my garden is proof they will produce and thrive.

I hate the grafts on David Austin roses. It's very long and you have to dig forever if you want to bury the graft.

Finally got some pics of my DD on Multiflora. This is it's first flush right now.

I'd say it has at least 20 bloom producing canes. And it seems a lot more vigorous than the one I had on Dr. Huey. And no big graft union.

Buford that's gorgeous!

Magnificent, Buford! Proves that Double Delight can be grown to perfection, and not only look beautiful in bloom, but also in bush.

The bed of DD at my local public rose garden was full of blooms the last time I can remember, but grows haphazardly as is the complaint of so many. In a single variety, group bed, its growth habit is less objectionable.

Buford, is your Double Delight multiple grafted, by any chance? Where did you get it?

Moses

It's on multiflora, from Palantine. I don't thin kit's multiple grafted. All of Palantine's roses are great like this.

I better look into Palatine Roses for my future purchases. Thanks, Buford.

Moses