Another question friends. I over planted my roselle since the pkg from sese said expect low germination and it was last year's seed. Well they are coming up pretty good and close.

How far would you recommend I space them and can I transplant the thinnings elsewhere.

Roselle is pretty sturdy. I think you can transplant the thinnings. I'm growing mine in a 5 gal bucket this year. When I planted one in the raised bed, it grew 5' tall and 4 feet wide.

Transplant them everywhere, at least 4' apart, and 5' is better. They are pretty easy to grow and carefree-so in general you can plant them and forget about them if you're growing them in the ground. I usually save a row or part of a row for them, and then scatter the extra ones around the garden edges, or anywhere else that 4 or 5' of space have become available. I only grow them in the ground. Trying to keep them watered well enough in containers in July and August is more than I care to attempt. I often grow them interplanted with sweet potatoes---the roselles occupy the space above ground and the sweet potatoes occupy the space in between the widely spaced roselle plants. Of course, in a rainy year, the sweet potato vines try to climb the roselles, but it only takes a few minutes to pull the vines back down onto the ground, scold them and tell them to stay where I put them.

Thanks. That's about what I was thinking on the roselles. I will wait till they get a little bigger to move them or is younger better?

And the melon? Should I let the vine get bigger to set bloom. You know I hate picking blooms.

All of my flowers are coming up nicely in my cutting garden. And I put trellises at each end for my hyacinth beans. It should be picture worthy soon

I got pretty much nothing yet in mine. . . a couple little zinnias, the first little zebrina hollyhocks, clematis, coreopsis, penstemon, dahlias in containers, Dawn's catmint is coming to life (I did NOT trim it. . . lol), verbenas and moss rose just beginning, stella d'oro daylily, hydrangeas have a good start. . . but all these are spread so far apart from each other that for all intents, still looks mostly green out there.

What might be going on with this Brandy Boy? It's the only one that looks like this. Top of the plant only. It has Tomato Tone in the planting hole and has gotten fish emulsion and MG tomato food. Other than the colors, it's growing and flowering very normally. Maybe sunscald?

And here's a couple gratuitous tomato shots.

I had close to 3/4" of rain in the gauge today. Ripped out a very unhappy Rutgers and replaced with a Brandy Boy and a Rosso Sicilian. (Crammed.) Started a few more sunflowers.

I hope the dwarf sunflowers thst were broken off come back. Anyone know?

Rebecca, nice tomatoes!

What's a mineral tub, Amy?

Rebecca, wind burn maybe? Heaven knows we've had plenty of that.

H/J, a mineral tub is a big tub, knee high maybe and maybe 3' diameter. They are sold with minerals in them for cattle. They're tough, meant to sit in the sun in a pasture for months. You see them out front at atwoods, usually blue.

Really resenting I have a doctors appointment this morning, it's a good pleasant morning and I have sooo much to do. Later.

Kim, Plant them if you've got them large enough to withstand wind and hail. The vicious summer heat is very close to arriving, so in that sense, the sooner they go into the ground the better.

I never pick off blooms. Here in our climate, where Mother Nature can find a million ways to ruin a crop, my attitude is that the more fruit the plants set and the earlier they set, the better.

Rebecca, I saw your photos on FB last night and have been pondering where I've seen that sort of yellowing before, and I have several ideas, and it could be any one of them or none of them. Anything I am about to say is just an educated guess, though.

Since only 1 plant is affected, there's a possibility it could be that someone near you sprayed a glyphosate (Roundup, for example, though there's other glyphosate herbicides in use as well) herbicide and enough drift hit that one plant to damage here. It is not unusual for drift to only hit one or two plants in a garden depending on what the wind was doing that day. Often the herbicide drift doesn't hold together in a high enough concentration for long enough to damage many plants. I often have only 2 or 3 plants out of 80-150 damaged in one drift incident, and those 2 or 3 may not even be close to one another. It is likely drift hits other plants and not just 1, 2 or 3, but just not in a high enough concentration to cause visible damage.

Here's some photos of gylphosate damage on tomato plant foliage:

Glyphosate Damage on Tomato Plant

The yellowing is one of the first signs of glyphosate damage. Later, sometimes the yellow areas heal a bit, but often they just turn brown and dead and look more like sunscald or brown, dead foliage from any other cause.

There are some other things that can cause that sort of yellowing, but they seem less likely. A severe nitrogen or magneisum deficiency would cause some odd yellowing of foliage, and an iron deficiency would be another cause. However, both severe nitrogen deficiency and magnesium deficiency usually are spread evenly over the affected leaves.

Sometimes excess salts in the soil (generally from repeated rounds of overfertilization or from water high in salt) can cause yellowing of leaves, but usually it shows up on entire leaves---not portions of leaves, and on the lower leaves.

Iron Deficiency on Tomato Foliage

Sunscald on foliage normally looks like whitish to tan or very light brown speckles or patches. I've never had sunscald present as yellow foliage like your photo shows. Windburn can present in different ways. Often it looks a lot like sunscald, or just browned, dried edges on leaves. Sometimes if the windburn is mild you just get mildly wilted leaf edges that are a slight blackish-green compared to the rest of the leaves.

The tomatoes look good. You'll be harvesting before long.

If you think it might be a nutritional issue, feed the plant with a balanced fertilizer to see if it makes a difference. If you believe it is glyphosate damage, there's not much you can do but wait to see if the plant recovers and how well it does or doesn't recover.

With the sunflowers that are broken off, it depends on which sort of a sunflower they are. If it is a variety that branches and produces multiple blooms on multiple branches, yes, it is likely to put out new growth and still flower. If it is a variety that generally only sets one big flower per plant, it may or may not come back and regrow.

Mineral tubs are similar to the molasses feed tubs I use, though usually those sweet feeds come in black containers. Sometimes Fred has given me orange, tan or blue containers, which I think more likely were mineral containers. The ones I have are basically the same size as a whiskey half-barrel. You drill drainage holes in them and they are great growing containers that hold up fo rmany years. I know that most of mine are at least 8-10 years old. Some of the mineral containers are slightly smaller than some of the molasses feed tubs. Either way, they are a great way to grow in containers without spending a fortune buying containers. Many ranchers give them away, others sell them to gardeners for a couple of bucks each. Fred was talking to Tim about something one day and said he was fixing to burn a pile of molasses feed tubs....and Tim jumped right in and told Fred not to burn them, that I'd love to have them to grow plants in. I think Tim brought me home about 30 of them that day and I've been happily using them ever since. That's also how we got Fred started on growing tomatoes in containers himself. With his bad back, he can line up molasses feed tubs on top of his stone wall or old picnic table and have the plants at a great height so that he doesn't have to bend over to tend the plants and harvest.

Amy, I hope the dr.'s appt. goes well. It is not nice and pleasant here. It is hot, humid and windy---I have been watching a huge atmospheric stream of Gulf moisture flowing overhead (in the form of clouds) towards point northward. All that moisture is going to be trouble when the severe weather starts up. If it wasn't so humid, I could tolerate the heat and wind better.

Dawn

I had a helper plant g tomatoes. Sophie kept her nose at the empty hole like she was saying put one here. Or maybe she just wanted to taste my fertilizer lol

We just got back from Sanders Nursery south end of Tulsa. We got 8-9 foot Moonglow and Bartlett pear trees, Honey Crisp and Red Delicious apple trees for $16 each (Honey Crisp was $25)!!! Wanted to let all of you know right away. . .

Kim, Sophie looks like a nice helper. I had nice helpers once....until they decided digging up was more fun than planting. Now they are retired and sleep indoors on the sofa on their favorite doggie blankets while I am outside working.

Nancy, That's great. Keep them well-watered this summer. Our summer heat and dry weather can be very hard on newly planted trees.

Dawn

It looks like all the roselle seeds I put in sprouted. I will have to move 4 of them. Not exactly sure where to go with them. Can not seem to get my place plowed. I needed it done 2 weeks ago my son was supposed to do it a month ago and he keeps putting me off with excuses. May 15 is cowpea and okra day here. I can not plant without it plowed.

I think I've stumped multiple people with the tomato thing. I seriously doubt it's Roundup - it's up against a 6 foot solid wood fence, so someone would have had to reach over the top and spray it. This neighbor has complimented my tomatoes before, so I doubt they'd do that. It's been fed recently, MG tomato food, same as all the others planted against that fence. TT in the planting hole. I do have a guy who mows for me, but that's all he does, he doesn't deal with maintenance. Maybe the MG I mixed was a little too strong?

And thank you for the compliment on my tomatoes. I'm applying your wisdom and it's working. I think with the recent wind, I should have a lot of fruit setting in the next week or so.

I spent some time hacking at Godzilla today (the wisteria that's eating my house). I found a couple areas where it's grown underneath the siding, winding in and out of it. Grrrr. I've been trying to replace the siding, but the cost is crazy out of my budget, but I guess now I've got to sell a kidney or something. Brush killer has been suggested. I'll pick that up and start getting that into the thing this weekend. I will not let it destroy my home.

Had to stake the lilies too. They're just too top heavy to stand up.

Everyone stay safe in the storms tonight.

Kim, Sophie is super cute. nice garden companion. Charlotte the cat is a better companion to me than the dogs. Although, I'm pretty sure she broke a Korean squash and part of a marigold.

Weve been without power since 330. There were no storms or even rain st 330! My son checked out of school early. Because of potential bad weather, Moore Public dismissed early. I didn't get home until after 4. It's pretty boring sitting in the dark.

Hoping the best for everyone's garden and more importantly for everyone's safety.

Yes--all of you stay safe!!

Dawn, am nervous about summer heat with new trees. . . but GDW is tickled pink with his trees. He'll probably run a long cord down to them and set up a fan! LOL

Rebecca, Herbicide drift does not have to come from nearby--it can travel a half-mile easily and up to a mile if the wind is just right and the land elevation does not present unusual obstacles.

I cannot imagine you could overdose one plant out of all the ones you have. Usually a fertilizer overdose will give you vaguely yellow-purple-green foliage that's just faded and sick looking, and then it turns dry and crispy.

If you think you overdosed the plant with fertilizer, water heavily as often as you can without drowning the plant and try to flush out each residual fertilizer left in the soil.

It is possible you might have overfed with something that is causing a different issue by blocking the uptake of a particular nutrient. I considered magnesium deficiency but usually that shows with the whole leaf yellowing and green veins. However, if you think it might be magnesium deficiency, you could feed with Epsom salts, following the package directions, and see if that makes the yellowing go away. It might be worth a shot.

Hazel, So y'all lost power because of what...wind? That is terrible.

Nancy, Just watch them carefully. Because trees can run off of stored energy for up to a year, often folks won't water the trees that often after planting them.. They'll be looking at them and thinking "wow, those trees look great" and then, months or even a year later, the tree turns brown and dies. Well, it had run for as long as it could off the stored energy and when it ran out, it died. Watch for signs of transplant shock---with trees, often the first sign of it is that the tree suddenly appears to be dying months after it was planted. I've never planted fruit trees this late. If I cannot get them in the ground by February or earliest March, I wait until autumn. My part of OK tends to be hot (92 today, with a heat index of 96.....) and dry, so I avoid planting anything late because it is just asking for trouble. You part of OK usually has a lot more moisture than I get, even in what we'd all refer to as a good year.

Part of our county apparently has a severe thunderstorm right now. Not my part. (sigh)

Dawn

Dawn, I'm not sure why we lost power, but it has something to do with tree limbs at the neighbor next to us. It's onlyhim, us, and the property on the other side of him who lost power.

We've actually had storms now. Some crazy wind. We came into my moms because we don't have water either (electric water well). We are about to go home though...with jugs of water. We can't just leave the dogs out there alone.

Oh dear, HJ! Sheesh!

Well the wind got wild here and I slept through it. I wasn't feeling well so I laid down, got up and my plastic from the greenhouse was off. It was still attached to the 2"x6:x20' board. So that is done. No protection for what's left. Everything needs to be in the ground or gone anyway

Kim. SO sorry about that. (Kinda nice you slept through it, in a way, as there probably wasn't a thing you could have done about it, right?) Oh bummer.

I'm getting used to the cabbage worm dilemma. Now I'm kind of enjoying just mashing them as I pick them off. At first I was picking them gingerly off; even though I was wearing gloves, the yuck factor was there. Not now. Oh! And while we were at Sanders today, front and center at the check-out register they had packages of ladybugs, so I was happy to get them and some nectar for them, to set them free after supper after spreading nectar on wet leaves. . . I hope they have enough aphids and other tiny critters to keep them happy.

Hazel, How unfortunate. I hope the power is back on this morning.

Our wind was crazy for a little bit last night, but crazier in other parts of the county. We already had 63 mph winds earlier this week and I am actually amazed at how few tree limbs came down. I expected worse.

Kim, I'm sorry the greenhouse plastic and that one board flew away. At least the rest of the greenhouse remained intact. And, of course, you're right, it is time for plants to be in the ground and the greenhouse was going to start getting too hot...but that doesn't make the fact that the plastic is gone with the wind any easier to take. Our greenhouse plastic finally is cracking and shredding. I think it is 8 or 9 years old...but it can't fly away because our Aluminet shade cloth is on top of it, holding it in place. We'll be replacing the plastic before cold weather arrives this fall. I am worried that when we remove the shadecloth it will be too brittle to put back on and reuse. If so, I guess we'll be replacing that as well.

Nancy, I haven't had much luck with releasing lady bugs here, which I did at least twice in our early years. It helps to release them in the evening, and it worked best for us to release a few of them each evening for several evenings in a row. That way, if they all flew away on Day 1, we had more to release on Day 2 and Day 3. We have a big population of them now, but it took years to get to that point. Having flowers they like early in the season probably is the key to keeping them around in Spring time because they need something to feed on until the pests arrive. I always have sweet alyssum for them as early in the season as possible as well as encouraging winter/spring weeds that bloom, like henbit.

I hate cabbage worms and cabbage loopers with a passion. I enjoy killing Colorado Potato Beetles even more. I don't think we've had a CPB here, not a single one, for at least three years, so I must have killed them off really well a few years ago, leaving none to breed the next year's generation. I wish I could achieve that stunning success with cucumber beetles and squash vine borers.

It is time for the squash bugs to start showing up---it might be a little past time. The squash vine borers usually show up here in late May through mid-June, so I'm watching for them as well. Having planted squash extra early this year, we've been harvesting, eating and freezing it for some time. It is such a joy to be able to walk out to the garden and harvest it without having to first spend time killing squash bugs. I am sure they'll show up any day now.

I have a bunch of succession plant seedlings of okra, winter squash, cucumbers and melons waiting to go into the ground as soon as onions and potatoes finish up. The cucumber beetles have been hitting those seedlings hard. I may have to drag out the neem oil or Spinsosad and spray them. I hate spraying anything on our plants and won't hardly do it, especially once the heat arrives, and we've been hitting the 90s all week. Maybe in today's cooler weather I can force myself to spray the seedlings. Maybe today's cooler weather actually will be cooler, because yesterday's was not as cool as forecast and it was miserably hot with a heat index in the upper 90s. I am not ready for that this early.

If we do not get flooding rains tonight, I will be disappointed. It won't take much to cause flash flooding here because the ground is baked as hard as concrete....concrete with a lot of half-inch cracks running everywhere, so it if rains hard, the water is going to run right off instead of soaking in. I have to water the containers today because Mother Nature did not water them yesterday or last night. It is sad when you check the rain gauges and they contain dust, dead bugs and leaves instead of water.

Dawn

With all the wind and lightning, we got a surprisingly small amount of rain last night. I don't know how much (or how little) exactly because the rain gauge blew out of the ground. What in the world.

We got a little over 2". Some tree limbs down in the neighborhood, but my cursory inspection showed no damage here. It was scary earlier in the evening, then more heavy rain came through around 5 am and I felt like I had to get up and check radar.

Had a stir fry almost entirely from the garden last night. Blue Wind broccoli. I don't think it replaces Packman. If Happy Rich makes more sprouts, it may find a home here. I miss the Piracicaba. Got a few English peas yesterday, some beans from Contender and Tanya's pink, which had bigger beans than Contender. More turnips. Spinach. Carrots weren't from the garden, nor celery. The lantana and verbena were blooming yesterday. Rain probably knocked those blooms off. The Fred's Tie Dye has the first big tomato. Whippersnapper has lots, should have Sungolds soon.

Attempted miso soup again. Went to the BIG Asian market yesterday. The dashi I found, first ingredient was salt. Second MSG. MSG and I don't get along. I found a packet of paste to make broth that included the miso and didn't list MSG, so I used that. I bought some seaweed, but the kelp they make dashi from has a different name. The various packages of this stuff had little English on them, or it was small and I didn't see it. Cool place to go, wandered around for a long time, mostly with DH lost somewhere else. Shouldn't take him to places like that. He finds gadgets and weird stuff.

Hazel, We've had rain gauges do that sometimes. It is so frustrating.

Amy, That's nice rainfall. I cannot remember the last time we got 2" in one day. Hopefully you'll continue getting enough rain, but not too much. The stir-fry sounds great.

I bet the Asian market was fun. I can relate on not turning your spouse loose to roam and find odd stuff. Tim is that way in Central Market. He comes up with all sorts of stuff that I didn't even know we needed, wanted or are willing to eat/drink. We need to go to Central Market this weekend, and it is always an adventure.

Some of my favorite garden plants can be grown from stuff found at specialty food stores and markets---like malanga.

Dawn

Amy, which Asian market did you go to? I need to make a trip to one, and to the big Latin market, except that people keep getting killed in that parking lot.

I posted my storm damage in the storm thread. There's a tree limb on the sugar snaps. I hope they're ok.

I went to Nam Hai on 21st street past Garnett, there is a Vietnamese noodle house at the front of the building that looked quite busy. DH and I were trying to recall what was there before, because Nam Hai WAS in the shopping center on the NE corner of 21st and Garnett. Everything has changed in the neighborhood since the days when I worked there. I don't know where the Latin market is you're referring to, but the neighborhood is very "Latin" and depending on what you want, probably has someplace that sells it. This place had one aisle labeled Latin, and one labeled Indian. I think it is geared toward restaurants, lots of extra large packages.

Since the sugar snaps must be close to done, better a branch on them than, say, tomatoes. Such a pain, though. Did you see the pictures of the car with the tree on top?

Dawn, DH's favorite place (well, besides a tool store) is a restaurant supply store. He does love gadgets. He bought a thing that sits on top of a cup, it holds coffee and you pour your hot water through it. Not the first of these kind of things he's bought. He also bought Kimchi. The next thing he finds is cookies, LOL. I guess I'm the one who buys weird food. I'll buy something because it was called for in a recipe, and then the recipe doesn't get made so there is some weird ingredient sitting around forgotten and irritating DH.

We went to Atwoods today. I was checking the price of their compressed alfalfa bales. The worker said he would get me one that wasn't moldy. I said maybe they'll give me a discount. Shore nuf, they run $14.95, on sale for 10.95 and I got a moldy one for 5. It should make good mulch. They also had compressed straw, which is cheaper. DH bought a bag of the straw bedding, which isn't supposed to have seeds in it.

Rebecca,

Okay, people keep getting killed in the parking lot? Motor vehicle accidents? Shootings? That would be nerve-wracking.

Amy,

That's a good score the alfalfa hay. I just can't buy hay or straw for mulch. One bale wouldn't mulch one bed. I have 14 raised beds, maybe 15, and an equal number of pathways, if not more. I'd go broke buying mulch. That's just in the front garden. The back garden is much larger, and in even worse need of much. All I need is rain---a couple of inches and we can mow a few acres and have all the mulch we need for a while. It is just that when so little rain falls, the pastures don't grow much.

I miss the good old day when we had ranching neighbors who'd give us dozens or even hundreds of square bales at once. One sold the ranch (well, his widow did) and moved away. They gave us 80 bales of hay the last time they had any old hay to get rid of and I used it like crazy as mulch because they didn't use Grazon or similar herbicides.

Another guy that used to give us old hay may have stopped cutting and baling. I cannot remember. I haven't heard him mention haying in several years. He offered us 600 square bales the last time he had old hay he needed to get rid of. Tim had hauled about 220 of them home, one pickup load at a time, when someone saw him, stopped him and wanted to buy it. It was drought and I guess they wanted to feed it to their cattle because they were desperate for anything. It was old and moldy and I wouldn't have fed it to cattle....but.....of course, Tim called our friend and told him he'd found a buyer for the rest of the hay he had offered us. Of course, we were happy he was able to sell it, and there was so much it likely would have decomposed before I could use it. Of course, that would have supplied plenty of compost so it still would be a win-win. Everyone else we know who bales hay here tends to treat it with those herbicides that persist in compost, so we turn down pretty much all other offers of hay, cow manure or horse manure because we'd have to stockpile it and compost it for a long time before it would be safely usable, and we don't have a lot of open space for doing that. Trees are great, but the woodland isn't really usable for stockpiling gardening stuff.

Usually we mow weekly or even twice weekly. Lately, we've mowed about once every 3 weeks, so there's a obvious mulch deficiency. Hopefully over time we'll get more rain and there will be pastures to cut for grass clipping mulch. Otherwise, the back garden's not gonna have much mulch, if any at all. The front garden is probably 80% mulched, but the north and west ends need to be done before they become weedy, snakey city.

We're off to a good start on the weekend rain with a whopping 0.12" in the rain gauge for today. Sure, go ahead y'all, laugh all you want. It IS a pitiful amount, but it also is 0.12" more rain than we got yesterday, so I'll take it. All day long the storms have streamed by to our west, coming into OK west of us and moving NE towards central OK. Same as yesterday. I'm kinda afraid to hope and wish for the storms to come our way, because when they finally did that late last night, the parts of the county they hit got strong wind, hail and tornado warnings.

I love Atwood's. I always find things in there that I like and want, and if you need canning supplies, it seems like a lot of people don't realize Atwood's sells them, so they sell out last there. There's where I've been buying the Mrs. Wage's Zesty Bread and Butter pickle mix I used to make both the pickles themselves and the similar Candied Jalapenos. This year Atwood's has a much better stock of all the Mrs. Wage's mixes than Wal-Mart or TSC have.

When Tim buys gadgets it tends to be tools or electronic stuff or things for the kitchen or garage. Oh, or coffee stuff. He is a sucker for coffee anything. I am not into having a lot of specialty kitchen gadgets that are of limited use in general but clog up drawers. I just got rid of a lot of that sort of crap when we remodeled the kitchen and have to fight his inclination to fill up the cabinets and drawers with handy gadgets again.

He can find anything in the garage, no matter how long it has been in there and no matter what nook or cranny he's stashed it in. Once he buys a kitchen gadget it disappears into the kitchen and no one ever sees it again. Then, if ou stumble across it, you don't even know what it is for. I allocated him one kitchen drawer for all his favorite knives and grilling tools, and that has helped a lot. At least when he has some neat thing to stash away, he knows where it is supposed to go.

It is so good and pleasant here today and the garden looks happy, but where is my rain?

Dawn

Amy - It's Las Americas, at Admiral and Lewis. The people of that area have been working really, really hard to keep improving it, and preserving the old homes and buildings around there, and it's helped a lot. But, Dawn, yeah...someone murdered a prostitute and dumped her body in their dumpsters, and then later in the same week a drug deal went bad and someone got shot. Hadn't heard anything about the area for a long time, and then two things in one week. But, it's the biggest Latin market in town. I love the laundry detergent made for the Latin market - cheaper and better than ours.

And Amy, the sugar snaps don't seem to be slowing down at all! They are in mostly shade now (they weren't when they were planted, the tree has since leafed out), so I think it's keeping them cool enough to keep going. And we're only supposed to be in the 70s this week. Once they are done, green beans are going in those buckets, and they will be moved to the sun.

Rebecca, there's a Mexican store on 86th street in Owasso, and as far as I know, no one has ever died there. On the other hand, I would lay odds anything that happened at Admiral and Lewis happened after midnight. Which was why my kids had a midnight curfew, nothing good happens after that. If you go there, stop at Perry's at 11th and Lewis. The BEST butcher shop in Tulsa which used to be located at ... Admiral and Lewis. They tore down the store there for a big grocery, which, if memory serves, eventually became Los Americas. Pork loin, hamburger, beef roast, ham, deli meat. I've been shopping there for more than 40 years.

DH used to be able to find anything in the garage. It is not as likely in the last few years. He organizes a little TOO well. We fight over the kitchen, LOL. It's too late for more, tomorrow my friends. It is still raining.

Amy, we love Perry's!

I believe your rain is up here in the NE corner, Dawn.

Got hungry (and hungry for great food stores) reading your post Amy.

I spent 10 minutes last night looking for my zester (I knew I could zest without it but by that time I was determined to find it.) Was in the silverware drawer. The only other thing that's never where it's supposed to be is the short-handled tongs. (But now I know where the wrong place is, so doesn't take long to retrieve them.)

It is dank outside today! Brrr. . We got electricity about 8:30 a,m. So thankful. Our rain gauge showed a little over 5 inches from 6 pm to 9 am this morning. Felt like 20 while it was coming down last night. And it was blacker than the inside of a cow except for the spectacular lightning show. We had candles on everywhere (we now have 2 shiny new battery-charged lanterns). When I went to bed, I blew them all out, placed the big flashlight on GDW's night stand for him. He, however, didn't know that. He said he got up in middle of the night and thought he'd gone blind. . . he re-enacted for me his experience in trying to find the bathroom. Hysterical!

Notwithstanding the storms, garden and beds are looking perky and pleased. I hope the tomatoes in the raised beds don't drown; I don't suppose they will, they haven't yet.

I like Atwood's too. . . and wish we had one in Wagoner; so don't get there very often. But appreciate the tip on the Mrs. Wage's stuff.

Garry just cut down the 3 remaining Bradford pears, which were about 20' high (they were 30 ft, but he lopped the tops off a couple months ago); and is working on removing the trunks now, so he can put his new fruit trees down there. He has more energy than I do today! He'd gotten one of the apple trees in and then all the rain began.

I likely won't be out gardening today; a good day to finish cleaning the garage! I hope you're all doing well.

My rain gauge only shows a bit under 2", but the sideways rain, you know. So I think it's more than that. Why can't we invent a rain gauge that measures sideways rain?

I crawled under the tree limb and harvested a handful of sugar snaps. Handyman comes tomorrow to haul it off. Hopefully he can minimize any damages, but I'm pretty sure there is some.

The humidity is summer like over here. I know why, I'm just not ready for it yet. It's making this 75-ish degree day feel warmer.

I may go out later this evening. It would be a good day to hammer L-posts into the ground, and I need to spray some fungus stuff.

Rebecca, Ooh, well, I wouldn't want to shop there after dark for sure. It is a same criminals are active like that in an area that ought to be safe for shoppers.

I agree about the laundry detergents imported from Mexico. We had a great Mexican food market down in Gainesville, TX, and went there to buy specific things. Then it went out of business and I haven't even looked for a replacement. I bet I could find one in Denton, TX. The upside to that story is that Atwood's bought and remodeled the building and it now is a huge Atwood's, so at least there's that.

Nancy, I respectfully request that NE OK stop hogging all the rain and send some to Love, Marshall and Carter counties. We are so dry it hurts. It is shocking to see everything that greened up just a few weeks ago now turning brown. Well, except for bermuda grass---I'd be okay with all of it turning brown and dying, but that's not gonna happen.

My only recent kitchen crisis is that the meat thermometer disappeared, so after fruitlessly searching for it, I finally just bought a new one today. I'm sure that means the old meat thermometer will show up tomorrow. Oh, and my tomato knife disappeared sometime between last tomato season and this tomato season, so I need a new tomato knife. When I find things out of place in the kitchen, I put them back where they belong. Eventually (maybe) Tim and Chris learn where they go because they have to look for them and find them when they need them, and I'm hoping that when they find them in the proper place, they remember to return them to that place.

Our rainfall for the whole year is less than 11" and about half of that fell in January and February so it is long gone. I'm giving myself the whole weekend off from the garden because the harvest is about to start coming in hot and heavy and I know I'm going to get really busy. I'll have to start canning tomatoes soon because there's only so many tomatoes we can eat in one day, and they are beginning to pile up on the countertops a little bit. It always shocks me a bit when the harvesting begins in earnest---as opposed to it being a little here and a little there as it often is during Spring. We bought a month's worth of meat and fish today at CostCo and filled up the fridge and freezer and didn't have to buy a single vegetable, except some guacamole, because the garden is producing everything we need to eat fresh veggies daily, with more left over to freeze or can. I harvested about 30 peppers, most hot and a few sweet, 2 or 3 days ago, and that is unusually early. I'm usually happy to begin harvesting peppers around June 10th. Our meals for next week will include lots of potatoes, tomatoes, onions, cucumbers, zucchini, broccoli, cabbage, squash and peppers. I love it when the food is fresh from the garden, and then next best is home-grown food that's previously been frozen, canned or dehydrated.

I stay home and work, work, work at our place all the time, so really don't pay a lot of attention to what is going on elsewhere. I knew we were dry here, but....

Our place is a green Garden of Eden compared to some of the areas we drove through today on our way down to CostCo and Central Market in Southlake, TX. I had a wow-oh-wow thing going on the whole way as I looked at the browned and yellowing plants along side roadways, as well as black burned places where grass fires have burned recently. As dry as we are up here, I think everything south of the Red River is ever drier and a bit more brown. It seems to get noticeably worse south of Denton. Clearly the rain that is missing us is also missing a lot of areas south of us in Texas. Tim drives through it every day so it doesn't shock him to see it the way it shocks me to see it once or twice a month when we go down there.

I don't care how hot and humid it is today, it still feels cooler than our 92-degree actual temperature, 96-degree-heat index day earlier this week. That day about got me. Not only was it hot it was hot really early in the day. I know it only gets worse from here on out. One advantage of being so dry is that our heat index likely will stay lower.

There's supposed to be more rain next week. I hope those of you who are wet have a chance to dry out between now and then.

Oh, Nancy, in raised beds tomato plants can tolerate tons of moisture, but it still depends on how quickly the beds drain and on how quickly the soil beneath the raised beds dries out too. Our raised beds have been amended for many years and drain pretty well even though they contain a clay-based soil, so the tomato plants have withstood 24-hour rainfall of up to almost 13" in recent years as well as monthly rainfall (May 2015) of around 24". That doesn't mean they were perfectly happy, but they didn't die and they grew well and produced well. In the same rainfall, in beds that should have drained as well, potatoes and onions rotted.

Dawn

Rebecca, the store in Owasso is called Mi Rancho. It is on facebook and listed as a grocery store. Whether they have laundry detergent, I don't know. I'm pretty sure that there were Mexican grocery stores over by the Asian market, too. This morning DH said "I want to go to Perry's today". I thought it was funny since we were just talking about it. He's happy, he has MEAT now ;)

Also shopped with DD today. Did not make it to the garden except to water 3 tomato plants too sheltered to get the rain. Everything else seemed to have gotten wet, despite being under the eaves, that sideways rain thing.

Dawn, I haven't even looked at the potatoes! They should be okay, they're in bags, but I forget the stuff I can't see and they're on the east side of the house (back door faces south). They were booming a few days ago. NOT feeling sorry for you having tomatoes piled on the countertop. Sorry to hear the drought extends into TX.

Ooo...I don't like sideways rain, Rebecca. It's the sort of rain that makes it's way into the coop through the ventilation places...and drives it into the covered pen.

I've never heard of a tomato knife before today. I must get one now.

Several SunGolds were ready to be picked, so they were picked and given to my Mom. The first broccoli is probably ready, but it doesn't look exactly like the heads that are purchased from the grocery store. Maybe I'll take a pic and ask y'all's opinion.

What's y'all's best way of harvesting potatoes. My potatoes still have maybe a month to go. I always manage to cut some when I'm harvesting them.

I'm buyin' my garden fork and looking forward to digging them with it! :)

We had sideways rain early Friday morning along with an extremely loud clap of thunder that woke us up straight out of bed. It was about 2:30am and sounded like every window in the house was cracking. We checked the windows we could see then looked out the patio to see how big the hail was. Thankfully, it was only pea sized but it sounded a lot bigger. I was so scared to go outside to look at the garden later but I knew I had to. I just keep telling myself things could always be worse. However, I could just cry. My little garden took a terrible beating. Every single plant had damage. I was so excited earlier in the week because my zucchini was looking just beautiful and I had several small zucchini's. They took the worst beating. I am hoping they pull out of it. The peas, green beans, cucumbers, squash, beets.....they all were just pitiful looking. I haven't been out today. I know they don't need watered so I'll just procrastinate till tomorrow, lol.

I AM thankful that I had not put my tomato plants or pepper plants out there yet.

Ya'll, I feel like I am so far behind all of you with gardening progress. I did get started later, but not as late as I normally do. I think this weather just stunted some of my plants and just as they were getting back to normal, all these storms moved in.

On another note, those of you who could say a little prayer for 14 yo my niece, that'd be great. They had an end of the year party at the principal's house and had one of those bouncy things. Her and some other kids were on it when a big gust of wind picked one end up and just tossed them like rag dolls. She was thrown into a tree more than 30' away. She suffered a collapsed lung, 3 broken ribs, 4 fractured vertebrae with one in her neck, one kidney failure, a concussion, and lots of scrapes and bruises. She's doing really well for all of her injuries. She'll be in a neck and back brace for most of the summer. All I can say is she is one tough cookie. I feel so blessed because it could've been worse.

Have a good weekend everyone. :)

Melissa. Its just going to be one of those years. I too am running a little behind usual because of all the rain I have had this year.

Just like you every time I get some recovery periods from the brutal rains and wind storms it seems here comes another wave. We got around 6.5 inches here in the last two nights. Last night sounded and looked like you were in Vietnam during the Monsoons. I was too almost afraid to go look. Surprisingly I faired this one fairly good. Corn is twisted and flattened every which way but its young enough that I can build some monster hills around it until it gets some brace roots going. I will have to rehill the potatoes but thats no big deal as it was getting time to do that again anyhow. It will be a week before I am able to go back in without losing a boot and I needed to do some weeding badly but it will just have to wait.

Water is standing in the furrows still in places and the tomatoes and peppers that were doing so wonderfully lately with be sucking eggs all next week with my heavy clay loam soil. Hopefully they will dry out quick. Everything else looks like it loved it except one squash plant that is just wilting away. Not sure whats wrong there as the rest look great.

That is like a crazy freak accident the poor child had to experience. My I feel so sorry for a kid that was just trying to play get injured so. She will be in my prayers.

Hang in there kid. If its any consolation the absolute BUMPER crop of sweet corn I ever grew in my entire lifetime came after my neighbors cattle got loose and ate the entire stalks of the whole crop down to nubs level with the ground when it was up about 2' tall. I was so disgusted I did not even take the time to plow it under and plant it back.

I looked out there about a week latter and the darn stuff had sprouted leaves back out the top of the eaten off nubs and the root system was already well established for the size of the tops. Within 3 more weeks, it was like you could never tell it had ever happened and from then on the rains hit just right from there until silking and ended up being the heaviest corn crop I have ever grown to this day.

Farming is like that some times. It's like the old tee shirt where the stork has the frog half swallowed and the frog has his arms out choking his neck.

http://www.madbrotees.com/view/5630580/never-give-choking-stork-eating-frog-aged-look-inspirational-t-shirt

Melissa, what a horrible sad accident for someone to have, let alone a dear 14-yr old!. . . heart-wrenching. She will be in my thoughts and prayers! One second. . . that's all it can take to change a person's life, huh. Blessings. And I'm sorry your garden got beat up. . . could happen/has happened to all of us, of course. It's a bummer. I think gardeners and farmers have to be eternal optimists at heart, always dreams of the perfect farm and garden in the future. .

Loved your farming/frog metaphor, Jerry. Can't imagine. . . I'd have had the same reaction if the cows got into the corn! Best to you, I hope it dries out and doesn't turn to 100 degrees then. . . all an educated crapshoot, eh.

I'm not good with bugs yet, HJ. :) I KNOW my crickets and aphids and Japanese beetles, and now cabbage worms. I'm sure I'll be learning along the way. . . darn it. BTW, my first broccoli that is starting to head out is on the same path as yours. . . not perfection, but edible, I'm guessing.

Not sure if I'll end up with any broccoli or cabbage yet. One thing I learned this year from you all. Do not grow the cabbages and broccoli from seed. Not worth it. Thank you. Mine are a good 3 weeks from producing; they're doing well, but just don't have enough time.

Thanks for the tip on the tomatoes, Dawn. I'll quit worrying about drowning the tomatoes. The soil is wet, but still nice and crumbly, and drains beautifully with all the mix of leaves and stuff, and through the cinder blocks. And though the small-to-medium potatoes I dug weren't plentiful (remember, I planted them all too close together?), they were in fine shape. Again, the soil was wet but crumbly (of course, I dug them up yesterday after an inch of rain in the previous 24 hours.)---and delighted to see nearly wall-to-wall earthworms, both there and in the compost. The tomatoes are awesome and loaded, but again, will be another few weeks before any are ready. C'est la vie. . . just hopefully waiting. Peppers are trying. They're turning more green with every day of warm weather, which haven't been all that plentiful--so odd for April and May. We get a pepper here and there, but all are workin' on it, not worried at all about them. Some are big, some medium, some on the smaller side. . . and have the tomatoes and peppers plunked in here and there and everywhere, in addition to the raised beds and hugelkultur. What a riot!

All the annual flowers are in the same boat, wanting a few warm days. The biggest joke of the annuals (Mexican "sunflowers") are 3 feet high now, roughly 1-1 1/2 feet in diameter and forming blooms--in a raised BED for crying out loud. I've never seen one in person, remember, so that should be a hoot!

Growing all these perennials and annuals I've not seen as seedlings and others who are heretofore unknown plants to me, from seed, my feeling must be akin to a couple awaiting the birth of their child without know its sex or who it will be. Because I confess, I grew all my seeds successfully, to a greater extent in many cases and a lesser extent in others (including the veggies) and although I know every single one of them and what they'll look like as adults, I forgot to label all the potting-up pots. . . some I know, of course, like morning glories, 4 o'clocks, hyacinth beans, black-eyed Susan vines, tomatoes, potatoes, rudbeckia, zinnias, marigolds, bee balm (and after Dawn clued me in, spider flowers) and so forth. Others, like milkweed, echinacea, and several others, I've no idea. Just now are the echinacea distinguishing themselves from the milkweed, and quite clearly now, to me. And some, I just plain forgot what all I planted. Maybe I'll go back through the seed packets tomorrow or one of these days to see. And maybe I'll just wait until they show themselves. But the fact is, I have no idea what some of these guys are! It's really very comical to me, and what fun it will be when I see who they are! I'm beside myself about the brugmansia (which I've never seen in person), which is luscious and big leaves, though only about 3 1/2' tall presently, and the-----mind just went blank, HELP, Dawn. . . the ______ that grow up to be huge and grow everywhere. . . I'm sure I'll remember tomorrow. But they are growing by leaps and bounds. Nicotiana. Who KNEW they began as these enormous flat leaves spread out like, well, with leaves as big as the brugmansia, only lying close to the ground. I had no idea.

I get a kick out of all the folks on other gardening forums who are wanting IDs when the plant is 6 inches tall. I have no idea with some of mine, but I'd never ask for an ID ( Well, except for my beautiful darling little poison oak tree, Dawn! ROTFL. I was crushed, and yet was not surprised. Still a little bitter about that.), simply because I know eventually I'll find out what it is, and that's part of the fun.

I note the message from Mary, and your replies. . . don't know you, of course, Mary, but my best wishes. And also Larry. . . I hope and pray he and his are being watched over and blessed.

And blessings to all of you.

Melissa, I am so sorry that happened to your niece! 14 is a difficult age for girls as it is.

H/J, eat the broccoli. Before too long the little buds will open as flowers and it will be past it's prime. It looks like maybe it is a variety withe looser heads than super market brands. Truthfully, I like looser heads, I like sprouting broccoli. To me, they are easier to grow. (And, Nancy, easier to start from seed.) I feel like I should know what your bug is and it's not coming to me.

Jerry, interesting corn story. Nice to here one with a happy ending. Do you make a living farming? It sounds like you plant a large area.

Nancy, I forever have seedlings labeled IDK (for I don't know) I have 2 unlabeled plants on hold right now. I didn't label them when I seeded. I thought I had it figured out, but now they're bigger, I'm not sure. I don't know if they're herbs or flowers.

I have yet to be successful with cabbage. Chinese cabbage, yes, heading cabbage, no. I got a good crop from purchased Packman seedlings in the fall, I think. Seems I have better luck in the fall. I just harvested one Blue Wind broccoli head. H/J, it is a tight heading variety. Sprouting broccoli is more forgiving. The Happy Rich (from Johnny's) is sprouting now and looks like it could be productive. Piricicaba (sprouting) did not survive the chicken massacre. Last year one of those lived under the tomatoes all summer and produced again in fall. It is a Brazilian variety bred to be heat tolerant, but it does pretty well in cold, too. The first time I grew it, I winter sowed, so it is versatile seeding wise.

Wonder if it is too wet to weed...

Ooooo, I like my Japanese sickle! Of course the soil is soft (though surprisingly not soggy) but it slips under the soil and slices off weeds SOOO smooth and easy. I wish the handle was 6" longer, but it is great. I pull bermuda, if I can, by hand and crabgrass. Oh, and it does a FINE job of squishing cabbage worms that have the misfortune of falling where I'm working.

We went to dinner last night with some friends and one lady had been to Smashed Thumb and gone crazy. Tracy has succulents this year, which I refuse to get into, they're the kind of thing I would obsess over. But my friend had gotten a big basket of succulents and, I guess other flowers. The friend who's fighting cancer says "I don't have to go there, Amy's my green house." She got all my extra tomatoes this year, and she will get some of the extra herb plants next week. I can't be a green house, how could I come up with a better name than Smashed Thumb?

It is a beautiful day.

The limb is off the peas. Not sure if they're going to come out of it or not, but I'm going to give them some time. Bright side is that there's more sun in that area now, maybe enough for cukes, or for me to build a permanent bean/pea trellis.

Heres the latest on the Brandy Boy with the funny leaves. Thinking I should chang it out while I still can. Still not sure what it is, but the Jujube Cherry next to it looks almost perfect.

(The below is from an amateur's perspective.)

I'm an amateur, so if I had Brandy Boy I'd freak and pitch it! LOL. Yellow leaves on the bottom of the tomatoes, no problem. Yellow peppers, no problem. Peppers that are little and produce, I take off pepper, they turn yellow and the leaves get torn by rain, no problem if I see they're still trying. When I encounter something that looks like disease, I go google-crazy. Like I did with one patio pot of a darling purple ornamental pepper combined with a purple sweet potato vine and verbena. All had white edges on the leaves, and I was convinced they had some sort of dread disease. I knew where I'd gotten each--I grew the verbena, and got the other 2 from a nearby nursery, and suspected the sweet potato vine or pepper were the culprit. I yanked the vine out with intent to throw it in the garbage, so 2 days later when I saw it lying where I'd placed it on our flagstone patio in some shade and saw it had new good leaves on it, and reading at about the same time (Dawn's comment) on sun scald, I thought hmmm. Put it back in that container and decided they all 3 would be fine. . . and today they all are looking up.

First two years for my hydrangeas, they got fungus--black spot? So I sterilized my scissors, cut off the spotted leaves, sprayed with hydrogen peroxide and water and they were fine. None of it this year. Kind of a pain, but I sure like them--a lotta bang for the buck, so to speak.

Unless and until we build more beds for our veggies, I'm not sure I'll venture into cabbages and broccoli again. But cucumbers. Need lots of cucumbers, but can't get to them until I get the potatoes and onions out! Will they have time if I get bedding plants put in, in June? With such limited room, I'll probably grow more onions, fewer tomatoes and peppers. I drool when I see wide open spaces with sun and no rocks, which some of you have.

And, the down side of having had the past winter and spring of reasonable weather for the most part and plenty of moisture, is that the oaks have sprouted a glorious crown of leaves and so our yard is shadier than it was the two previous years. AAGGH. I fear suggesting it to GDW, but I am wishing we had at least ONE fewer oaks in the back yard. And if I ask, it's as good as done. He's a master at tree cutting. He does it for nearby neighbors when asked. But I don't want to appear to be putting my "dream idea" above what I've got, which I love. Still. . .

Today we finished getting GDW's fruit trees in the back (and they DO get full fun), after he dug out all the Bradford pear tree trunks. . . hard work on his part. I told him I was SO happy the fruit trees were HIS idea. I'd have never asked him to do that!! LOL He said the next time he had a brilliant idea like that, he hoped I'd tell him to forget it. (Not gonna happen,) I didn't realize, until Dawn's caveat, that they should have been planted earlier, so I will be assiduously attending to them this summer, as GDW didn't realize the care, either.

I always get concerned when what I want becomes the most important thing. I have to remember that what I want is not the thing, for me. What the grand creator has in mind is perhaps different. All I must to is to be thankful for what I DO have and to take care of it.

I imagine that most of y'alls cool season crops are finishing up down south but up here the harvest is coming on strong. These are some pictures of some of my garden prior to this weekend's harvest which included snow peas, lettuce, broccoli, cauliflower, green onions and garlic scapes.

Early Dividend broccoli.

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I picked about 50 scapes off of the German White garlic in the back of this bed and about the same from my other garlic beds.

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Cheddar Cauliflower - I only planted 2 plants this spring because I wasn't sure they would have time to head up before the heat set in. This is the first time I have tried cauliflower in the spring. I will definitely be planting more next spring!

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The 2 heads weighed in a 4.5 lbs.

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We had a salad with some of this mini romaine lettuce, snow peas, broccoli, garlic scapes and green onions.

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Next up for harvest this week will be these Bay Meadows broccoli.

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I'm so far behind I'll never catch up but I did read everything and I'm keeping my response minimal since it is time to start this week's new thread.

Amy, Time off from a garden can be good. We all work too hard at this time of the year.

Hazel, The best way to dig is with a special potato fork that has rounded edges on the prongs so they don't stab the potatoes, but I'm too cheap to spend money on a tool I'd only use a handful of days per year, so I used a transplanting spade with a rounded edge. Start further out than you have been and proceed slowly and with patience in order to avoid cutting into potatoes. Just use the cut ones first as sometimes they do not scar over and heal (though sometimes they do) and the ones that don't scar over will not store for long.

A tomato knife is essential for someone who grows and processes as many as I do, and I did find one yesterday. I had to buy an entire cutlery set to get it, but it was an inexpensive set so I didn't mind. I wanted that tomato knife. I am going to go online one day and order a couple more. It is just I have tomatoes piling up everywhere now and need to be able to quickly cut them and use them and the tomato knife makes it easier.

Melissa, Don't worry about being behind. Some years are just that way. We all have to work with whatever weather conditions we get.

I am so sorry about your niece's injuries and will keep her in my thoughts and prayers. What a horrible way for her summer to start. I saw the story on the news and was horrified at the thought of those kids being in that bounce house when that happened.

Jerry, That is an amazing corn story. Sometimes plants can be so resilient and I think often that many gardeners are too quick to write them off and either yank them out or plow them under instead of letting them recover on their own.

Nancy, In your case, because of all the rain you have received, it is a good thing that the tomatoes are not closer to harvest. If they were, the excess moisture likely would ruin the flavor. Flavor is best if they are kept pretty dry as they approach harvest. So, for me, as much as I lament the lack of rainfall down here, it isn't really a bad thing for the tomatoes as it means their flavor compounds won't be watered down and they won't be suffering from cracking and splitting either.

The first time I grew Mexican sunflowers, I wasn't prepared for how big they'd get. I space them much better nowadays so they don't crowd out everything else.

Our dear, sweet Mary normally grows a ton of veggies and cans all summer long, both of which are a huge amount of work, of course. She is trying to take off this season in order to recover from what I'd describe as a major cardiac event so hasn't been posting here much. I was so happy to hear from her the other day and to know she is going to have a few plants. I think plants can be great therapy as someone recovers from a medical issue, as long as you have the self-discipline not to overwork yourself while tending those plants. Mary, if you read this, I keep you in my thoughts and prayers and hope you make a full recovery so that next summer you can be back to your usual growing and canning.

Amy, It is odd that cabbage refuses to cooperate with you. It is about the easiest thing I grow. I just plant them and forget about them, which is easy to do if you grow your brassicas under netting to exclude the cabbage worms and such, which I do. When they're ready, I harvest. I do plant cabbages with short DTMS in the 60s-low 70s so that they finish up fairly early here. That's more because I want to put a sucession crop in their place before the weather gets too hot than anything else. When I've grown varieties with longer DTMs, they've done fine too and I've almost never had a head of cabbage try to bolt.

Rebecca, I'd just cut off all the damaged leaves and let the Brandy Boy put out new growth. It likely would be fine.

Nancy, Cucumbers planted late will do fine. I planted my pickling cukes late on purpose (just last week I think, or at the end of the week before), except for 2 early plants I planted in late March, so that I could spread out the canning load. The cucumber plants from the seeds I just sowed will not be producing a harvest until I'm through canning tomatoes, which was my goal. Having too many things that need to be canned all at once can be a real problem, so I try to control the canning workload by using planting dates to spread out the harvest. You even can get a good cucumber harvest from cucumbers planted in July down here, and I expect it is the same up there.

My honest opinion is that if you want more sun, get your sweet husband to cut down that tree now. As time goes on, the shade situation just worsens. I speak from experience. Now that you two both are enjoying gardening so much, it will be important to maintain sunny areas for your veggies, fruits and sun-loving flowers. There is a place in each landscape for both sun and shade, and too much shade (though shade is highly desirable in our hot summers) is not a good thing.

Okay, it is Monday moring and I'm headed off to start this workweek's new weekly garden talk thread.

Dawn