No idea, sorry, but I love your post. Lux.

If it helps, the USDA Plants web site says the following four rose species are native to SD:

R. acicularis

R. arkansana

R. blanda

R. woodsii

Obviously, the roses in question were short-lived flowers, but the ephemeral blooms may be characteristic of more than one of these species?

I believe it was Rosa acicularis, good to look at, not to pick!

cheers

claire

According to the distribution maps for the native South Dakota species, R. arkansana is the one species that is common in Kingsbury county, where De Smet is located:

I'm not sure how accurate these maps are, though. I saw a lot of Rosa acicularis near my parents' house in far northern Minnesota, in the peat marshes below Lake of the Woods.

I think R. setigera is known as "the Prairie Rose". I don't know if it occurs in SD or not...

Thank you for all the answers. She could have been seeing more than one rose.

I forgot I had the annotated autobiography also checked out, and looked at that section. She describes it as a "low growing bush" in there, and the footnote identifies it as R. arkansana. Arkansana is the shortest of these, so I guess that must be it.

Thanks again!

Yes, I've seen them, surprisingly perhaps, but I was on holiday in the area and found them by accident... not in South Dakota though, I didn't notice any there, but in nearby south eastern Montana, where there are at least 2 creeks called 'Rosebud Creek', one of which is quite famous in history, and that's where I saw them, short pink and white rose bushes covering the ground... I did not know what type of rose they were at the time, but I got two books later, one called... ''Wildflowers, Grasses and Other Plants of the Northern Plains and Black Hills''.. and the other ''Edible Wild Plants of the Prairie''...

In the first, they state R. blanda as the variable rose that one sees mostly... ''The several wild roses in the high plains are hard to tell apart. At times they crossbreed and produce hybrids as intermediate forms. Growing up to 30 inches, the stems of this shrub are basically unarmed, having only a few prickles on new wood. The fragrant blossoms are usually pink, but may vary from white to deep red''...

This description matches the roses I was looking at along Rosebud Creek, Montana.

In the 2nd book, they use R. arkansana, which may mean the variety R. blanda var. arkansana.. HMF ... as it seems to be describing the same plant...

Incidentally, I do hope the Ingalls didn't indulge too much in the rose hips.. according to Cheyenne Indians of the time, eating too many causes ''itchy buttocks''...

I've found some photos of that time, nearly 20 years ago, where I saw those roses, so I re-photographed them, or whatever the term is, into digital format.. Unfortunately, I didn't get time to photograph the roses as I heard what I thought were Rattlesnakes and jumped right back into the car... [they were probably Crickets or somesuch..?]..

If you look closely, a deer shot out from the bushes in the centre of the first photo... these were taken along Kollmar Creek, a small tributary, as it enters the Rosebud stream, and just north of a small place called Decker, on the Montana/Wyoming State line.. but this is the kind of landscape these roses seem to enjoy, which in this preserved area, is one of the few remaining places that were not totally ploughed up in pioneer times... I think it's a protected area now as it's part of a Battlefield and is considered in pristine condition as far as prairie goes..

Just thought you might like to see them.... I had a lovely holiday, not many people get to these outback places... that's what I like about it... not easy to get to, along dirt roads..

... the tree line in the photo below is Rosebud Creek, some miles to the north than the 2 photos above...

My bad. Now that I read the thread more carefully ("short, pink"-- "great sweeps"). Setigera is more of an Eastern US and Middle Western species. It was more likely Rosa arkansana. Pic below from USDA. Overexposed? But pretty. It has 7 leaflets, not 3. One needs to imagine coming across a broad, fragrant stand of them as they must grow in nature, and indeed as Laura Ingalls Wilder describes them. We read all the Little House books aloud when our daughter was young.

Below Rosa arkansana from USDA Forest Service:

Below, distribution of R. setigera (the climber). Same source: USDA Forest Service:

We just returned from Yellowstone where sweet pink singles bloomed in the partial shade of trees near Tower falls. The color varied from med to light pink with occasional pale pink sport here and there.

Thank you for the
pictures, Malorena and Monarda.

Malorena, I hope
someday to travel out there and see those amazing sights. De Smet, South Dakota has remained a very small town. It would be a great place to visit. Laura Ingalls
Wilder's last home, in Mansfield Missouri, is about a ten hour drive from where
I live, so I have to make that trip one day, too.

That is too funny
about arkansana's rose hips! I wonder what's going to happen in the
book when fall comes, and the hips start to ripen?

bellegallica... my husband watches all the series on the t.v... he has done so for years.. so inevitably I get to see some of it too... he calls Laura Ingalls ''Half Pint'', I think you would know what he means.... we have on dvd the very first pilot episode of the series, when they first moved from Wisconsin to a place called 'Plum Creek', on the plains of Kansas, but the military made them knock the home down because it was on the wrong side of the boundary.. that's when they met Mr Edwards [played by Victor French].. do you remember that?.. [you must have noticed my husband is something of an enthusiast for this... he's telling me what to say here]..

He also asks that did you know the young actress who plays Nelly Olsen [Alison Ingram] applied for the part to play Laura, but didn't get it.. and that the late Michael Landon got the whole film set knocked down when it finished, so that no one could come visit it?... no idea why he felt that way about it..

I hope you get to visit SD some day, we went to the Black Hills, Rapid City, and the Buffalo Gap National Grasslands, all around that area... back then I had an acute interest in all things Native American, and was in contact with some Indian people from the reservations at that time, so we were making our way to the Northern Cheyenne rez. and the Crow rez. when the photos were taken, both of which are nearby... lots of Pow Wow's going on..

Yeah... we need to watch those rose hips... my husband can't recall anything in the series about that though, not really something they would want to get involved with I think...family viewing...perhaps you have to eat them in some quantity...

I loved the "Little House" books as a kid, and still enjoy the reruns. I must have missed or forgotten any mention of roses. Remember when Mr. Edwards taught Laura to spit? As a child I loved Monday nights, "Little House Night" How I cried when there was a two hour special on, that I could only watch the first hour of. Bedtime was bedtime. There were no exceptions. Thanks for the info and trip down memory lane. Lisa

Hi, Malorena, Yes, I remember the TV series. The show was in it's first run when I was a kid in the 70s, and it made the books popular, so they were hard to get from the school library since all the kids wanted them. But I eventually read them all.

Did your husband know that the actress who played Nelly, Alison Arngrim, has written a memoir, Confessions of a Prairie Bitch? I read it a few years ago. It's full of interesting information about the show.

I do remember hearing or maybe reading something about Michael Landon being angry over the show's sudden cancellation, and he wrote the story line for the townspeople to blow up the town so that the studio wouldn't be able to use the sets for anything else.

I never saw the pilot episode, but I can tell from your description that they drew from the family's experiences in Kansas for that storyline, and since you're interested in the Native American angle......

This takes place in the book titled Little House on the Prairie and it's the only one in which they have significant contact with Native Americans. In that one, the Ingalls settle on reservation land in Kansas, about 15 miles west of Independence. The land belonged to the Native Americans, so any whites living there were technically squatting, but European settlers were encouraged to move there because of stories they'd heard about the American government being in negotiations with Native Americans to buy the land from them, which the government would then sell at cost to the settlers, or make it available through the Homestead Act. In the end, the Native Americans sold the land to the railroad companies instead. The Ingalls and all the others like them who couldn't afford the railroad's prices for the land had to leave.

It's interesting that the show turned this into a boundary issue because I read that there is some question about whether or not Charles Ingalls knew he was on Native American land or not, but most people think that he had to have known. Even in the book, they call the area "Indian Territory."

I became interested in the books and the history of the family again by reading another memoir by someone who revisited the books as an adult, and it made me curious as to how I'd react to them, reading them again all grown up, after so many years. It's called The Wilder Life: My Adventures in the Lost World of Little House on the Prairie by Wendy McClure. The writer also traveled to all the known Ingalls sites.

I'm finding the whole thing so fascinating all over again. There are so many angles: the difference between the books and the tv show (a lot), the difference between the books and reality (not much), the collaboration between Laura and her daughter Rose in writing the books, it goes on and on.

But when I came to the Roses part, I felt like I had to post it. :-)

That's interesting bellegallica, thank you for putting me in the picture about a few things regarding the background... I think we'll get that pilot episode dvd out tomorrow and have another look.. I've only ever seen it as a kind of background, without taking too much notice... now you've got me curious... I'll pass this on to my husband and see what he thinks too... I know he won't have heard of that book by Alison Arngrim [sorry I got her name wrong earlier]... I just looked it up and read something about it, oh I'm almost shocked at what she revealed about Michael Landon... although I shouldn't be I suppose, just not what I imagined... my husband might like to read that I think..

I'll get back....

Thanks, I'm interested in what you discover about the pilot. I'm not very familiar with the earlier episodes.

The relationship between the show and the books is complicated. I do remember the entire show was set in Walnut Grove/Plum Creek, Minnesota. They did live there for a few years. It's the setting for the book On the Banks of Plum Creek. They move to South Dakota (and stay there) in the next book. But the show takes it's title from the book, Little House on the Prairie which was the one before Plum Creek. I'm guessing they combined elements from those two books to get the show going.

Yes, Michael Landon. Because of Little House and later Highway to Heaven he sort of became this saint like figure. It was surprising to find out he was a very high functioning alcoholic. He ran a tight ship; the show was always ahead of schedule and under budget, but apparently he was drinking on set the whole time.

bellegallica... ok, I've just watched the dvd... I was quite entertained, surprisingly, even a little tense in places... some Indians tried to run them out of Kansas, but were saved by other Indians who interestingly spoke French, but ultimately a couple of military officers rode up and delivered an order from the Government that they had to leave..as a Kansas tribe had petitioned for their removal.. Charles was angry that he understood the whole of Kansas was opened for settlement, when in fact it wasn't, and he blamed the Government... next thing they ride off in their wagon, but it's not clear where they're heading, and it was left at that.. the end...

Rather far fetched in places, like the prairie fire that nearly burned them out, then all of a sudden it pours with rain... but all in all it was rather touching in parts...

I hope you get to watch it one day, it repeats on satellite t.v. here from time to time so I'm told...

That's great. So the pilot covers The Little House on the Prairie (Kansas) novel. Everything you wrote about happened in that book. So the first season of the series must pick up with their arrival in Walnut Grove, Minnesota.

The fire actually happened, but I don't remember a miraculous rain coming to save them. Charles hurriedly plowed a firebreak around the house and stable to prevent the fire from getting to them.

I should take a look at the early seasons. I remember mostly the middle and some of the later ones.

Thanks for filling me in!

P.S. In the book, things are tense between Ma and the Indians because they just walk in and demand food and tobacco, usually while Pa is out working in the fields. He tells her to always give them what they want. Did that happen in the pilot?

Yes it did, while Charles was out Ma got invaded by a couple of hostile Indians [white actors 'browned' up I'm afraid]... and this was actually a tense scene as you feared something akin to John Ford's 'The Searchers' might happen, it reminded me of that in a milder way - nothing too scary - but one of them started touching Ma's hair and generally threatening behaviour, so she gave them food and a box of trinkets, and they went on their way... it was far fetched because I think anyone would be scared by all this and in a state of shock, but when Charles got home, he was more concerned about Laura not obeying one of his orders, and Ma hardly mentioned the episode...

As for the fire, I felt they filmed that quite well, almost too well, as animals were involved, and there was quite a fire raging in the stables, [I didn't see any firebreak], where Charles had to hurry out a couple of cows and horses right through the nearby flames... I felt a bit sorry for the animals there, I felt it was too close for comfort... but maybe during filming it wasn't quite like that, just how it appeared on screen... but then the heavens opened and everything was put out by the rain, apparently... even the roof of their house was on fire, and a wooden structure like that would have burnt down very quickly I would have thought, yet next thing they're all back to normal as if nothing's happened...

Still, entertaining.. 95 minutes long, which is quite a time for me to watch anything on the t.v.

Just to add, there was a scene where Charles was chased by a pack of wolves, whilst out hunting.. I've read that this sometimes happened to people in those times... it used to occur on the California trails...

Thanks!